What sort of accuracy is attained by the big stuff? Tanks, field artillery, naval guns? Yes, I understand that some of this is becoming obsolete. I doubt that our big ships even have 16" rifles with 20' barrels capable of shooting 20 miles.

However anyone near my age surely remembers Victory at Sea film, with those huge battleship guns rolling the ship. And sailors stuffing in bags of powder then slamming and locking the breech. The music was great, too.

from,
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7.htm

.......For example, during test shoots off Crete in 1987, fifteen shells were fired from 34,000 yards (31,900 m), five from the right gun of each turret. The pattern size was 220 yards (200 m), 0.64% of the total range. 14 out of the 15 landed within 250 yards (230 m) of the center of the pattern and 8 were within 150 yards (140 m). Shell-to-shell dispersion was 123 yards (112 m), 0.36% of total range

Thanks, Mark. That was an interesting report. As to accuracy, it appears that 23 MOA was achieved, which sounds rather poor. However, the 15 shots were 5 each from 3 turrets, not nearly comparable to 15 shots from a single barrel. Of course, when barrel life is estimated at 300 rounds, you aren't going to take a lot of sighters and foulers.

The "group" of 220 yards, if on target, would likely have taken out a ship.
Brice

This belongs in 'Military & Military Surplus.

George

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Clark:
from,
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7.htm

.......For example, during test shoots off Crete in 1987, fifteen shells were fired from 34,000 yards (31,900 m), five from the right gun of each turret. The pattern size was 220 yards (200 m), 0.64% of the total range. 14 out of the 15 landed within 250 yards (230 m) of the center of the pattern and 8 were within 150 yards (140 m). Shell-to-shell dispersion was 123 yards (112 m), 0.36% of total range

Can't remember the battle, but one ship escaped by constantly steering towards the impact point of the last salvo.

Griz

I am a former 13B (Cannoneer). Our M-109A6 "Paladin" self-propelled 155mm Howitzer, with the right munitions (assisted) and accurate data, elevation and defection, you can hit roughly a square meter, or car-roof sized zone, with a maximum range approximately 30+ kilometers. Some munitions utilize laser-guidance systems, where a forward observer "paints" the target with an IR laser, to which the shell flies to......Quite precise, considering the range.

Hopefully my math is accurate, or gives you an idea. So, at 30km, one (MOA) equates to 328 MOA. Again, If I am doing this correctly, at 30 km, hitting a square meter target, represents .11 to .12 MOA. Since everything would be obliterated, actually measuring groups would be extremely difficult.

You need to realize that range dispersion on purely ballistic shells is going to be relatively large as a very small deviation from shot to shot on a vertical bullseye will result in a much larger distance difference in impact on a horizontal target area. The flatter the trajectory of the arriving projectile the greater the range dispersion. Lateral dispersion will give a better idea of the actual accuracy of the gun. An impact area is an elongate oval with a relatively narrow width. On the 8" howitzer, using precision fire methods a stationary target the size of a tank would be in serious trouble. With terminally guided munitions first round hits can be virtually assured, but that is kind of cheating. However, as First Sgt Summers (RIP Top) would say, "in a gunfight if you ain't cheating you ain't doing it right."

Jerry Liles