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| If they keep improving the AR15 they will eventually end up with the AR180. |
| | | Posts: 1361 | Location: congress, az us | Registered: 27 February 2001 | 
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| quote: Originally posted by Edmond:
The attachment to the front sight assy is the weak point, that is probably the reason there is one for carbine only. A longer rod for the rifle size barrel would have serious problems. But I see a very simple modification to make it better for a longer rod.
Btw, since there is a bushing, the diameter of the rod must be really small.
Edmond, I know they've made some modifications already. One is the rod is not core harden, so it's a pretty tough rod. They changed the threads on the piston/cylinder body and they closed off the end of the pigtail that plugs into the gas block. One should use a good hardened solid gas tube pin too. It's important to make sure the gas block is anchored solidly. A lot of people don't realize how much force is on that entire assembly, thus the reason for a hardened solid gas tube pin. What I like about it is that it's easy to install and easy to uninstall. What I don't like is that I don't think it's robust enough for military use. For example I think the gas cylinder should be an integral part of the gas block by whatever means, like threading into it and with a larger thread diameter then the pigtail that is on it now offers. There is no doubt they knew of the short comings of the Rhino carrier key and thus made a new dedicated carrier with an integral solid key. What's Frances laws on owning full auto weapons? Joe |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| Thanks Edmond...apparently I didn't read that thread more closely...probably because I was captivated by the photos. |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| BTW, isn't ARES the manufacturer of the SHRIKE that everybody is still waiting? |
| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| There was mention on another forum about the old HK roller delay system which also utilized the fluted chambers and how it blew a lot of carbon/powder residue back into the action, in addition to making the action hot. It was mentioned that the carbon was a lubricate in effect too and also that the blowback through those flutes kept the chamber clean of debris from whatever source. The DI system on the AR's in a different manner does the same thing for clearing debris from the action. Eugene Stoner knew exactly what he was designing in the AR system. You never hear the Egyptians say much about the DI action of the Hakim rifles they use to use, nor the Swedes say much about the Lungman rifle.
Joe |
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| The French RSCG 1917 and 1918 followed by the STAT 1922 experimental rifles used the direct gas adduction like the MAS 1935, MAS 1938, MAS 40, MAS 44, MAS 49 and MAS 49/56.
The AG 42 is based on this post WW1 design and the Hakim is a copy of the AG 42.
The main differences are that the AR15 moving parts are enclosed and the gas are vented inside the carrier. the tube is really small in proportion to the french system.
I used an AR 18 (Howa) this was perfect.
The HK is different, rollers can't get dirty to the point it jams the weapon. there is a lot of space were carbon and debris can go. |
| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| Edmond,
You know that the AR has two gas vent holes in the carrier. That's where most the exhaust gas should be escaping, and that does escape into the "open" not inside the carrier. The problem is the gas tube leaking inside the key, plus what gas may come through the tube when the key is back away from the tube end, and what gas may leak by the gas rings on the bolt, which is probably the lease amount of any of the areas. |
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| After shooting, the AR is the most dirty rifle I know. |
| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| Edmond,
I built a 6.5 Grendel on my AR15. I am a big cast bullet shooter, so I shoot a 140 Saeco cast bullet from the 6.5 Grendel. Now you know we're dealing with a much dirtier bullet then a jacketed bullet from the fact that it carries lube in grooves on the bullet. With that said you would be amazed at how clean my action and bolt/carrier stay after a shooting session. By the way it shoots that cast bullet very very well. |
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| Good choice of clean fast burning powder?  I have noticed the difference when shooting extruded tubular powder loads or spherical ball powder loads. |
| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| Edmond,
The powder I use for my 6.5 AR15 is H4198, so I'd say, yes, that's good clean burning extruded powder.
Many AR15 shooters have asked me questions like: Are you getting lead in the gas system? How dirty does it get? Is the filler you use in the case getting into the gas system?
To those the answers for me are no. It's amazing Edmond, that using Dacron for a filler or powder positioner doesn't get one shred of fiber in the gas system. I think when the round is fired the Dacron is a compressed wad and it goes past the gas port so fast, that nothing enters the gas port.
By the way the best group I've shot so far with that 6.5 is 5/8ths inch at 100 yards.
Today I test fired the 7.62x39 upper I built. Concidering it was near freezing outside and my left thumb was hurting very bad as I had a terrible tablesaw injury on it 6 months ago, and that I just mounted the scope and was still sighting it in, the rifle still shot near a 3/4 in group after I finally got it sighted it. Guess with what ammo? The Lee 312 155 cast bullet which is a 155 gr bullet pushed with 27 grs of 4895.
Joe |
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| Edmond,
That is incorrect sir. I use to belong to a big cast bullet shooting forum and one of the members mentioned that in front of his shooting bench on the ground are large amounts of his Dacron filler after firing. We were amazed that not only were then not burned, the weren't melted any either. Now I've shot Kapok for a filler and when it exits the muzzle it flys apart much like blowing on a dandelion.
In some more powerful cast bullet loading the Dacron is blown apart pretty well too.
Joe |
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| That's an interesting point, I did not shoot such loads since my youth when I did mold bullets and I never noticed it. The Dacron melting temperature is really low... |
| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| Well Edmond, it's like that theory that hot powder gases melt the base of lead bullets. I've never seen that, but I've seen gas cutting up along the sides of the bullet, but that's an entire different thing then melting the base. Think about running your finger through a candle flame fast. You feel very little heat. Then run it through the flame very slowly...you get burned. I believe that is what goes on inside a barrel during the complete firing cycle. I think since it's in micro seconds, there just isn't enough time to really melt anything. Might be what happens with the Dacrom. I can guarantee you that it definitely does not burn Kapok.
Joe |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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| | | Posts: 157610 | Location: Ukraine, Europe. | Registered: 12 October 2002 |
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