I have a 16-year old who "knows everything." He has decided that the best sniper cartridge is the .50 caliber. I told him that to me, a military sniping cartridge (to snipe enemy soldiers) should not only be very accurate, but easier to carry (lightweight), and one that when shot would not be loud like a .50 caliber rifle. I also told him that perhaps a lightweight .308, or smaller in size, would be easier to carry or sneak around with, specially if one has to walk several miles through the jungle, desert (like in Iraq), etc.

Am I correct on my assumptions, and what are some of the most popular "sniper" cartridges for about 300 meters, and why?

I would appreciate your input on this matter. Thanks.

I think special forces get to use whatever they want. But i believe that the most common is a .308 fired from a modified model 700. Personally I think i would feel more comfy with my .270 in this situation.

Actually,I believe most North American and Commonwealth Snipers use the 7.62x51. That is what my BR/Sniper is chambered for. derF

Some have also been chambered in 300 Win Mag I believe.
Depending on the terrain that will be fought in determins the range that the sniper will be required to shoot. Seeing as the Desert is flat and open I would be suprised if the majority of the snipers arn't carrying the 50 in the gulf now. In addition to being able to reach out and touch someone they are also avaliable for pinpoint equiptment destruction such as trucks and machinegun enplacements ....

The .338 Laupa is becoming popular too for very long range work, yet still a portable weaopn.

What they like about the 50BMG is not only it's range, but it's ability to be used against hard targets and vehicles. I think the 50's are really only used in stationary setting, or by sniper/scout/observation teams of 3 to 8 men. You sure as hell wouldn't to be humping that monster (and ammo) if you were out in a line unit.

In order of popularity, the 308 (7.62 X 51), the 300 Win Mag, the 50 BMG and the 338 Lapua magnum. - Dan

The US Secret Service uses 7mm Rem Mag, and excellent choice.

On the other hand he may be right.

Problem with light guns (smaller than .50) is that they are tactically limited. On todays battlefield Snipers often have to deal with physical assets at long range, not just personell as in former times.

Here are a couple of operators in action just the other day.



But then what do I know?

D.

I do not know whats best which may be highly situation driven, but a number of rounds that are still pretty commonly used and some oddities that deserve mention due to once heavy use that have not came up in the thread yet are:

7.62X54R Soviet standard and sold to anyone

6.5X54R A rare Soviet longer range version

.303 British Still in use by some resitance groups in former colonies

.223 A bad but persistant choice of some police departments that got a number of hostages shot in California some years back

.30/06 Some Canadian special forces

7.62X39 Some bolt and semiauto rifles in this unlikely choice were outfited for sniping for use in Vietnam, but is was not as poor of a choice when you consider the common ranges there and the size of the average Vietnamese who may have been troubled by heavier recoil

Fireplug

Thanks for the replies. I will let my son read the responses, and I am sure he will like the one in the picture over any I may like.

Actually the question is; what the soldier is facing...
Military forces normally devide sniper rifles into two catagaries:
Anti Personal; 7.62x51,7.62x54R,7.92x57 etc.
Anti Material; .50 browning,14.5mm Russ,20 mm etc.
But one caliber to do all is popular concept and this is where .338 Lapua shines.

Different tools for different jobs.

This site: http://www.snipercentral.com/caliber.htm
has some good info on the various types of ammo snipers commonly use.

For shooting humans at ranges beyond 1000 yards, the 50 cal is it. For shooting equipment, the 50 cal also excels.

The standard Army sniper rifle is an M14 with scope.

The standard Marine sniper rifle is a model 700.

Remember that sniping is as much about sneaking in and not being seen as it is about distance.

[ 03-30-2003, 00:07: Message edited by: 500grains ]

To my knowledge, the first time (may be wrong) a Browning .50 was used for sniping was during the Korean War. A Browning M2 .50 MG was bedded in sandbags, the semi-auto letoff was lightened, and a 20X target scope was mounted. They were shooting Chicoms at ranges up to 2000 yards with this rig, far beyond the range at which the victims could hear the shot being fired! The sniping was done from one mountaintop to another mountain!! However, such a rig has "limited mobility", to say the least! The Marines use a heavy-barreled M700 Remington 7.62X51mm as a standard sniping weapon, but the Spec. Ops guys have some other rigs. I have heard of .338 Win, and even .338 Lapuas, used by some people.

[ 03-30-2003, 01:08: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

The British Army uses a bolt-action gun in 7.62x51 as the standard sniper rifle. They decided they need a longer-range gun so they tested some .50s and also .338s. They chose the .338, because in the anti-personnel role (which was all they were interested in) its effective range is as good as the .50 and it's far lighter and easier to handle.

.50s come into their own when used with ammo like the Nammo NM140 Multipurpose APHEI, which is best used against vehicles. Even better against armour is the SLAP APDS, which will penetrate up to 25mm/1,000m. However, last I heard there was a problem using this in rifles because the sabot fouls the muzzle brake.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion
forum

I have read several accounts of Carlos Hathcock killing a Viet Cong pushing a bicycle loaded with weapons at 2500 yards with a 50 cal. scope mounted machine gun. He hit the target twice, first hitting the front wheel of the bicycle, and with the next shot killing his enemy. These shots had several witnesses and the range was supposed to be accurate. I have also read where it was 2500 meters instead of yards. Hathcock used a Winchester Model 70 30.06. with a 10x Unertl scope. He had 93 confirmed kiss in Vietnam and as many as 300 more unconfirmed kills. A very good book about him is "Silent Warrior", by Charles Henderson. BA

The first book is better.

The CDN snipers in Afghanistan recorded some anti-personnel hits at 2700 meters, I believe, using their 50 BMG sniper rifles (customised Barretts). - Dan

You said the range to 300 meters, that would be easy for the 7.62x51 (308win)

The 50 cal is being used these days to take out equipment. It's large enough that it can disable a communications system, radio vehicle, aircraft sitting on the ground, etc.

Range on the 50 cal allows sniping to include not only personnel, but also equipment.

The standard sniper rifle for US Army and Marines is a modified Rem. 700 PSS in 308 Winchester -- 7.62 Nato. Lately the military has been ordering them with the longer reveiver/bolt so that they can manage the 300 Win Mag.

Ray, Alaska:

I belive for that purpose there is Blaser R93 LRS2 in 6mm Norma BR, I belive excelent short/mid range caliber, but capable to 1000m.

Virtually any modern military cartridge has been used for successful sniping by the owners of that cartridge and platform.

Virtually all have been mentioned except for the 7.5 French and 7.5 Swiss. Each and every modern military force has fielded sniper rifles using their own county's battle rifle rounds. Each has done the job. As mentioned the 8mm Mauser, 7.62x54R, .303 Enfield , 30-06 and others have been used in the past with great success.

A sniper rifle only has to be as accurate as the tactical situation that exists and that the using force demands.

That is why the .308 class of cartridges have been predominant in the last 50 years or so. Recently the .50 BMG has made great strides as a sniper rifle as desert ranges have dictated a cartridge that can "reach out there" at greater ranges than the .30 caliber class of cartridges. This concept was proven by Capt. William S. Brophy during the Korean War, where he took a rebarreled PTRD anti-tank rifle and made 2,000 yard shots. He was basically limited by the ammo available, which was designed as a heavy machine gun round and not accurate or consistant enough for longer ranges. The concept died out after that conflict until some folks started making their own .50 BMG rifles to reprove the concept.

Basically though, any cartridge can be used for sniping. Again, it depends on the tactical situation.

Oh yea. Currently the sniping rifle of the U.S. Army is the M-24 Remington Rifle. Synthetic stock with adjustable butt plate, heavy barrel varmit rifle in 7.62 NATO and M3A scope. Accurate out to 1200 yards with a good operator. The Marines use something similar with a differant nomenclature. For longer ranges there is the .50 Barrett. Recently the Marines have been re-issuing the M-21 (accurized M-14) as Afganistan has dictated that faster followup shots are desireable.

Regards,

Eric