Ran into some Aussies while I was there, a great bunch of guys.

Good on you mate
Did my R&R in Sidney

It's always good to have allies. I read an archived letter taken off a dead Japanese soldier during WWII a long while back. He reckoned the diggers were the best opposition he had ever come up against. The Americans he rated as no better than the Chinese. Which, from what he wrote, didn't mean the Chinese or Americans weren't good. After all, US ground forces took the letter off him after they killed him.

As an aside, the South Koreans also proved good allies during the Vietnam War. They'd notice details not obvious to US forces. For instance, an entirely US patrol might have walked right through a village when there was no obvious sign of the Cong. But when the Koreans went along for the ride, they'd point out that the villagers had cooked up far more rice then they could eat, and cooked rice doesn't keep for more than about half a day without refrigeration.

It also helps that the Koreans, like the Aussies, can fight like demons.

The ROKs didn't mess around.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
The ROKs didn't mess around.

They still don't. I was at Camp Casey when they sent special forces to make OPFOR quit embarrassing their generals during one especially memorable Ulchi/Focus Lens.

I was actually on their side before they arrived. Just because the simulator allowed you to "beam" your ships into Pusan without having to tangle with 7th Fleet doesn't mean you should do it. The fact that these guys were something like 10 times better at Tae Kwon Do then I'll ever be and could rip my trachea out with just one of their little fingers had nearly nothing to do with me being in vocal agreement with them.

The Desert Fox also rated the Aussies highly.

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:
The Desert Fox also rated the Aussies highly.

He wouldn't have been the first German to come away from a battle extremely impressed by the Aussies.

Lawrence Dominic 'Fats' McCarthy, VC

quote:

By June 1916 the 16th Battalion were in France where they took part in the fighting at Pozières and Mouquet Farm in August. McCarthy was promoted to company sergeant major in March 1917 and the following month was commissioned as a second lieutenant. The day after receiving his commission, McCarthy was wounded at Bullecourt and evacuated to England where he spent three months in hospital and convalescing. In November he was promoted to lieutenant and was awarded the French Croix de Guerre. He spent the months between February and August 1918 training troops in England, before rejoining his battalion in time for the offensive that began on 8 August.

Just over two weeks later, on 23 August, McCarthy performed what some regarded as the most effective piece of individual fighting in the history of the AIF next to Albert Jacka's Military Cross winning feat at Pozières. McCarthy, leading the 16th Battalion's "D" Company, attained his objectives, but the battalion on their left had been held up by German machine guns. He and a sergeant attacked the machine-gun posts, capturing 460 metres of German trench and forcing the surrender of between forty and fifty Germans. McCarthy was unscathed, the sergeant wounded. For this McCarthy was awarded the Victoria Cross that, within his battalion and in some quarters of the London press, came to be known as the "super-VC".

By all accounts, the Germans who surrendered to him were so awed by what he had just done, they gathered around him and patted him on the back.

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:
The Desert Fox also rated the Aussies highly.

It's believed both Rommel and Guderian took great notice of Monash. In many circles, he's considered thge father of modern mechanised warfare, or "Blitzkrieg".

".... With a focus on protecting life, Monash argued in favour of the coordinated use of infantry, aircraft, artillery and tanks. He wrote:

"The true role of infantry is not to expend itself upon heroic physical effort, not to wither away under merciless machine-gun fire, not to impale itself on hostile bayonets, but on the contrary, to advance under the maximum possible protection of the maximum possible array of mechanical resources, in the form of guns, machine-guns, tanks, mortars and aeroplanes; to advance with as little impediment as possible; to be relieved as far as possible of the obligation to fight their way forward." (1)

In the Battle of Hamel, Monash demonstrated that the protection of human life was not only justified on humanist grounds, it also was a legitimate war strategy. Hamel was a strongly fortified German defence position, which protected the area between the Villers Bretonneux Heights and the Somme River. Monash horrified both the American and British high command by proposing a strategy that involved throwing heavy war machinery into enemy territory where it could potentially be lost. Monash proposed that armoured tanks would support infantry in the advance, and in turn, both troops and tanks would be supported by advancing artillery from behind. As the troops took ground, aerial drops ensured they would be resupplied with medical equipment and ammunition. From the perspective of the traditional war orthodoxy, it was sheer madness. If the attack failed, the aircraft would simply be supplying German positions and a German counter attack would take possession of allied machinery. General Pershing, the American Commander in Chief, argued against American participation in the offensive, but Monash simply ignored his objections.

On the 4th July 1918, Australian and American troops under Monash's command took less than 92 minutes to kill 2,000 Germans, and capture 1,600 others. Australian casualties were fewer than 1,300 and the Americans were fewer than 176.

Not only had a stalemate been broken, the allied forces had been given a massive moral boost. Americans had been initiated into the war with a victory and it had been shown that the days of trench warfare were coming to an end.

After the success at Hamel, Mawson submitted plans to use a similar approach to break the stalemate at Amiens. On August 8, an allied force put Monash's plans into actions. In the previous four years, the only major breakthrough on the Western Front had been by the Germans on March 21, 1918, when they attacked and defeated the British Third and Fifth armies. With Monash's plan, it took less than 150 minutes for the allies to do what hadn't been done in the previous four years. To maintain an element of surprise, there was no pre-battle bombardment. Instead, the Germans only learnt of an attack once a line of tanks and infantry was upon them. It was then that the creeping artillery kept up a continuous bombardment by advancing behind. In the thick of the action, the tanks offered cover for the infantry, and in turn the infantry was able to protect the tanks against fire. Re-supply from the air allowed the allies to keep moving forward. The German army lost strategic territory, suffered 27,000 casualties, and lost 450 guns. Not only was its defensive positions smashed, but the awe of the attack broke German morale. German General Ludendorff later said:

"Our fighting machine was no longer of real value. Our capacity for year had suffered harm even if the far greater majority of our divisions fought bravely. August 8 marked the decline of our military power and took from me the hope that...we could restore the situation in our favour... The war had to be ended."

With the Germans in retreat, Monash chased them with more victories at Mont St Quentin and Peronne. From 8th August to 11th November 1918 the Australian Army Corps destroyed no less than 39 German divisions.
In total, Monash's troops comprised just 9.5 per cent of British forces in France, yet they captured 18.5 per cent of the German prisoners, 21.5 per cent of the territory and 14 per cent of the guns. On average, one Australian soldier was worth around twice that of other British soldiers. On the battlefield, Monash was knighted by King George V. It was the first time in 200 years that a British monarch had honoured a commander in such a way. More praise came from British Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery who said of Monash:

"I would name Sir John Monash as the best general on the western front in Europe".

Ironically, after experiencing first hand the fear that a coordinated attack can have on an enemy, the likes of Major General Heinz Guderian, a German soldier who fought against the Australians at Amien, studied the approach and incorporated it into German battle strategies. In World War II, Guderian became a crucial leader in the Monash-style blitzkrieg strategy that led to German dominance in the first half of the war."
http://www.convictcreations.com/history/monash.html.

So, Converesely, it was the Allies in WWII who suffred from ignoring history.

Albatross.

The allies did teach the German's about blitzkrieg in WWI and by god did they
refine it and use it well in WWII.

.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
The allies did teach the German's about blitzkrieg in WWI and by god did they
refine it and use it well in WWII.

.

The Japanese did the same thing at Pearl Harbor. And we didn't wait 'til the next war to use the lessons they taught us about how to use carriers.

In 1941 there was only one navy in the world that could pull off a coordinated six deck strike. In 1945 there was still only one navy in the world that could pull off a coordinated six deck strike.

It just wasn't the same navy.

China

That is very true indeed.

and to think that the US were hesitant about Aircraft carriers at first.

The US were damn lucky that some of the Ships were out of Pearl Harbour at the time.

.

Served along side 1RAR when they were attached to the 173d in '65. Very good troops. Also trained with the SAS at Campbel barracks in the mid '80s during a Dark Cygnet excercise. They are damn good troops.....

Larry Gibson

I must be getting old or something but I tear up every time I hear that song. This one has a similar effect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BZ6aqgvdFI

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
China

That is very true indeed.

and to think that the US were hesitant about Aircraft carriers at first.

The US were damn lucky that some of the Ships were out of Pearl Harbour at the time.

.

Everybody was hesitant about carriers. No one had ever used one in a war. No one really knew how they were going to be used. The playbook was pretty thin. The Akagi had 8 inch guns. The Japanese thought it was likely she'd have to go toe-to-toe against cruisers.

As far as being lucky, I don't know about that. Sinking ships in major port facilities is actually a pretty stupid way to kick off a war. They aren't going to go down very deep. And you've got pretty much everything you need to fix them right there.

There's something about being good at damage control, salvage, and repair that makes its own luck.

That's what I think of when I hear the words "Pearl Harbor." We had just about every one of those obsolete battle wagons back up by February 1942, except for the Arizona and the Utah.

Then we used them to blast the living crap out of axis forces from Normandy to Okinawa.

It wasn't glamorous work, putting the Pacific Fleet back together. But it is awe inspiring just thinking about how efficiently those guys got the job done.

Larry,

did you make the jump onto the Bong Son Plain with the 173rd? I have a cousin that did.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Larry,

did you make the jump onto the Bong Son Plain with the 173rd? I have a cousin that did.

No, I deployed from Okinawa in May '65 and rotated back to the 101st in June '66. I did jump 4 times "in Country" but none were "combat" jumps. I was with the Recon Section of HHC, 1/503rd Inf antry Rgt.

Larry Gibson

PS; before some newbie wants to get on me about the HHC and saying I was a REMF because the Recon Section was part of Delta Company......there wasn't any Delta Company then. The Battalion had 4 companies; HHC, and 3 line companies; Alfa, Bravo and Charley. The Recon section was every bit a part of HHC. We had 3 MOHs earned by members of HHC while I was there; 2 were out of Recon. One was my sqaud leader SSG Larry Pierce, the other was our medic SP4 Al Rascon. I was indeed "in the company of heroes"!

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Gibson:
Served along side 1RAR when they were attached to the 173d in '65. Very good troops. Also trained with the SAS at Campbel barracks in the mid '80s during a Dark Cygnet excercise. They are damn good troops.....

Larry Gibson

Larry

How long did you spend out West ? i might send you a PM as you might know a couple of people

Also, what were the "Dark Cygnet excercise".
Was that CT exercises.
.

Dark Cygnet Exercises were special operation training exercises for Pacific Theater special operatons personnel from various countries. All facets of training and technical techniques were covered with various things discussed in the pen" type forum atmosphere. I was with a small SF contingent that took 90+ foreign and obsolete weapons and lots of ammo and conducted the weapons portion. I was there for 4 weeks and remember well the afternoon "tea" break watching the sailing ships practice for the America's Cup Race. Had good times down at the Sail & Anchor also. The training was excellent BTW.

Larry Gibson