Saw an article that debunked the 1917 story. York was supposed to have traded the 1917 off as quick as possible due to the sights. His son even confirms this through vague detail. Thoughts?

I dunno, but I'm looking forward to hearing from some people who know from where they speak on this matter. I've heard it both ways and that he trained in the States with a 1903 but was issued a 1917 in Europe.

Last month my wife and I toured the Alvin York house in Tennessee and got to talk with his daughter-in-law. I viewed every old photo on display trying to get a glimpse of what rifle he used, (nothing apparent).

The American Rifleman had an article about this awhile back and in the article Alvin York’s son was quoted as stating that his dad got a 1903 Springfield shortly after he got to France. He said that he preferred the 03 because he found the peep sight on the Enfield to be bothersome for leading moving targets.

There were several other people quoted in the article who had known York personally and all of them said he had told them that on that day he was carrying a 1903 Springfield.

hello;
In the movie version at least, he carried a Springfield.
Grizz

Not that movies are all that accurate most times, but Alvin York was the technical advisor on the film.

American Shooter had an episode when they went to a "chunk gun" shoot in honor of Alvin York. On the show they had Mr.Yorks son, and like others here have said, he told the camera that his father used the '03 Springfield because he found it easier to aim with regular sights then with a peep sight. He said his father told him it was expecially hard to aim at moving targets, so Mr.York got a Springfield instead.

Something tells me that Alvin York would have prevailed whether it was a 1903, 1917, M-1 Garand, or M-16.

He had the most important characteristic; the ability to maintain presence of mind in a tight spot.

Off topic a bit...but if you have ever read the account of what Alvin York actually did its a good thing for him it was in WWI and not present day Iraq or Afghanistan. Instead of his CMH he would have received a court martial and been charged with murder and/or manslaughter...among other things.

Boy how the times change...and oftentimes not for the better.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
Off topic a bit...but if you have ever read the account of what Alvin York actually did its a good thing for him it was in WWI and not present day Iraq or Afghanistan. Instead of his CMH he would have received a court martial and been charged with murder and/or manslaughter...among other things.

Boy how the times change...and oftentimes not for the better.

I'm a young feller so can you explaine to me how killing nazis, the enemy in the war Mr.York faught in, nowadays earned a soldier a court marshall? Is it because the germans he killed that day he could have attemped to take them prisoner or what? Please tell me.

quote:

Originally posted by C.Wathen:

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
Off topic a bit...but if you have ever read the account of what Alvin York actually did its a good thing for him it was in WWI and not present day Iraq or Afghanistan. Instead of his CMH he would have received a court martial and been charged with murder and/or manslaughter...among other things.

Boy how the times change...and oftentimes not for the better.

I'm a young feller so can you explaine to me how killing nazis, the enemy in the war Mr.York faught in, nowadays earned a soldier a court marshall? Is it because the germans he killed that day he could have attemped to take them prisoner or what? Please tell me.

Well, they weren't nazis for one thing. That was WWII. The nazi party didnt have anything to do with WWI besides helping Hitler get his voice just right. The only thing I can see York in trouble for is abandoning his fellow teammates. Some stories however, tell of him taking 6 men with him on his rampage.

quote:

Originally posted by C.Wathen:

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
Off topic a bit...but if you have ever read the account of what Alvin York actually did its a good thing for him it was in WWI and not present day Iraq or Afghanistan. Instead of his CMH he would have received a court martial and been charged with murder and/or manslaughter...among other things.

Boy how the times change...and oftentimes not for the better.

I'm a young feller so can you explaine to me how killing nazis, the enemy in the war Mr.York faught in, nowadays earned a soldier a court marshall? Is it because the germans he killed that day he could have attemped to take them prisoner or what? Please tell me.

I’ll start this by stating for the record that I would give him two CMH’s for what he did.

On that day, according to his own words and the words of witnesses, Alvin York shot at least two unarmed Germans after they had surrendered and he also held a loaded pistol to a German officers head and threatened to kill him.

All you have to do is watch the news on Iraq and Afghanistan and you will see the instances where troops have been prosecuted for these types of actions.

One of the more famous was the Army officer that fired a weapon “near†a terrorist to scare him into talking and that officer was relieved of his command and faced a court martial. The other that stands out was the young Marine that was caught on film shooting a terrorist who was “playing possum.†The Marine ended up getting off but it took quite awhile for that to happen.

Wow, never heard of York shooting 2 unarmed men. Interesting.

Hello;
Obviously, I'm just an arm chair warrior, but I would suspect that under those conditions the difference between an armed and unarmed combatant are very trivial. It only matters if CNN is on the scene. Stallings account in The Doughboys suggests that York did shoot a surrendering German, who attempted to conceal a grenade in his hand when he surrendered. He incidentally claims that York used an Enfield.
Grizz

quote:

One of the more famous was the Army officer that fired a weapon “near†a terrorist to scare him into talking and that officer was relieved of his command and faced a court martial. The other that stands out was the young Marine that was caught on film shooting a terrorist who was “playing possum.†The Marine ended up getting off but it took quite awhile for that to happen.

Or the newest, the soldier with the dog! For shits sake it's a war! They are dealing with an enemy that has no morals, no concept of civilazation,not even a post grade school education. Thank God that CNN and the home video camera wasn't around in WWI! Or WWII for that matter!

quote:

Something tells me that Alvin York would have prevailed whether it was a 1903, 1917, M-1 Garand, or M-16.

Can you imagine if he had one of the latter two? He would have ended the war sooner!

Like it or not...right or wrong...we live in a much different world than Alvin York did. Personally, I don’t believe Alvin York did anything wrong...but I also don’t think that Army officer in Iraq did anything wrong either but he certainly didn’t get a medal for it even though the info he got from the guy that he scared ended up saving the lives of his men.

quote:

Originally posted by Gentleman Jack:
Saw an article that debunked the 1917 story. York was supposed to have traded the 1917 off as quick as possible due to the sights. His son even confirms this through vague detail. Thoughts?

I believe it's true. But I fail to see how any knowledgeable shooter could think the sights on the '03 are superior to those on the 1917!!

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:

quote:

Originally posted by Gentleman Jack:
Saw an article that debunked the 1917 story. York was supposed to have traded the 1917 off as quick as possible due to the sights. His son even confirms this through vague detail. Thoughts?

I believe it's true. But I fail to see how any knowledgeable shooter could think the sights on the '03 are superior to those on the 1917!!

If you take a mountain/country boy used to shooting shotguns and muzzle loaders and shooting allot of game on the run where you have to lead your target, a peep sight can be a bit cumbersome. York stated that he liked the more open 03 sighting system because it didn’t obscure his targets when he was leading them. He was talking about the battle sight, not the drift slide.

the 03 is also alot more trim handier rifle, One thing you have to realize is in war I would imagine (I have never been)you are not always prepared to deal with prisoners, so what other choice do you have but to shoot them.

quote:

Originally posted by cummins cowboy: One thing you have to realize is in war I would imagine (I have never been)you are not always prepared to deal with prisoners, so what other choice do you have but to shoot them.

I like that logic! Unfortunately for Alvin York that would have been a hard one to convince anyone of since he captured hundreds of prisoners that day and one or two more wouldn’t have made much difference.

well maybe he felt that in order to safely capture this many prisoners and maintain this many, he needed to weed out a few bad apples and show some germans he ment business

Hey, I could care less if he shot every swinging-dick in a German uniform...but like I said, he would probably face a court martial if it happened today.