Can anyboby tell me the weights of the bullets in the SS109 cartridge, and the M193 cartridge.

Ball. Not TRAC or AP.

Many thanks.

[ 10-31-2003, 14:17: Message edited by: Deerdogs ]

The green tip penetrator FMJ is 62 grs - I don't have the article that list all the various loads for the 5.56 NATO specs here in the office but do recall this as being the so called 'standard' round.
I have always thought it odd that the marksmanship units use (used?) a 68gr bullet in competition but the Specs call for a 62gr - anyone know why?

Deerdogs,
The SS109 Projectile is a 62gr bullet. The us equivalent is the M855 round. M193 comes with a 55gr FMJ.

Trapper,
The AMU and MTU shoot bullets that weigh from 69 to 90 grains because they perform better in the wind (and the match bullets in those weights are FAR more accurate than the 62gr FMJ's). That departure from standard ball ammo is no different than the situation that existed with the 30-06 where M2 ball used a 147gr bullet and M72 Match used a 173gr bullet. Same for 7.62 Nato (M80 & M59 ball=147gr and M118, M852 and M118LR = 173, 168, and 175 gr respectively)

The 30-06 and 7.62 Match ammo was ultimately used in combat and we are now seeing the same situation with the 5.56.

[ 10-31-2003, 17:32: Message edited by: Chris F ]

Chris & Trapper.

Much obliged for your help.

An important issue in "groups" is how many shots are we talking about? 1-3-5-7-10....a bunch more?

Three shot groups are too dependant on "luck" (I have a few really nie ones....), 5 shot groups better and 7-10 shot groups much more demanding. As much as I like the longer range results of the VLD and other heavier bullets with the 5.56mm round, the heavier/longer bullets are not going to be adopted for military use without a redesign of the service weapon due to cartridge OAL limitations. The heavier bullets are usally single loaded for this reason.

Trapper,
I don't think a 5/8" group at 200 yards would qualify as the "best ever". I'm quite sure the Bench Rest crowd has bested that by a wide margin.

Bench Rest isn't my game, but I do recall about 10 years back a fellow named Sutton that worked for Hart barrels set a 300 yard bench rest record of ~.300 inches with a 6ppc.

I'll see if I can dig up some records for IBS or NBRSA 200 yard groups.

I've shot 5/8 3 shot groups at 200yds with an old M98, sitting on a backpack for a rest.

I have shot similar three shot groups with a 1903A3 Springfield at 200 yds, and sub .2" 3 shot groups at 100 with a Yugo M48 and a Colt AR15, which goes along to suggest that three shot groups are not represenatitive. In a more numerous group, shots 8,9 and 10 sure put on the pressure. Any rifle that will put ten shots inside 1 MOA consistantly out to some distance is a fairly good rifle.