Smith & Wesson

Got a few clues....it appears the photo is dated 1944. So it's possibly a 38/200 British Service Revolver.

But where is the lanyard ring?

So I'm leaning towards S&W 'Regulation Police'

No!

Maybe a S&W Mod 10 in 38 Special.

Held by a British soldier some where in the middle east [Israel??] after WWII @1948/1949.

Or maybe Germany after WWII rounding up the Werewolves [Nazi underground hoping to restore the Third Reich].

Guy looks like an irregular to my untrained eye, epaulettes cut off, Maqui type headgear?, anyone know what the medal is on the breast pocket? the prisoners look like they are in civvie clothing, Spanish civil war? Check out the shirt!

.38 S&W British service (K200 or 38/200) in .380 Webley.

It's not a Smith and Wesson. So no coconut! The man holding it is in the Milice...if you Google it it may help!

The photo caption is in German and indicates that the man with the revolver is a French "militiaman" (meaning Vichy) guarding resistance prisoners.

The photo appears to have come from the German Bundesarchiv and is dated 1944, so that could be the case.

The revolver looks like a Smith & Wesson Military & Police model. Those are typically .38 Special; however, this one might be a .38 S&W or .38-200 - who can tell?

If it isn't a Smith, then it may be a Spanish copy of a Smith. But again, who can tell?

quote:

If it isn't a Smith, then it may be a Spanish copy of a Smith.

Any prize from the top shelf. It is a Spanish made revolver for the French in WWI. Using the same cartridge as that used in the French Model 1892.

I posted it because I saw an actual one in Belgium in November. And for sale! And was trying to remember where.

Used various search engines and got this picture.

I've never seen these before then and suppose that now they are rarer than the actual French 1892.

I think they are called the 1915 Model.

So that's it. A Spanish Smith & Wesson copy in the 8mm French revolver cartridge calibre.

Interesting. Some of those Spanish copies apparently made it to the USA.

They were generally condemned as being shoddily made goods, although this is just hearsay, since I've never seen one first hand.

Do you know the ballistics of the 8mm French revolver round? I wonder if it might have been comparable to the .32-20?

The modern Fiocchi stuff fires a 111 grain bullet at 880 fps. I would imagine but I don't have my French reference book to hand that 111 grains is equal to some round number of grams!

Original bullet also fully jacketed. And it was never anything to do with Mr Lebel at all!

Original loading was a 7.90 gram lead bullet with black powder later changed to the new smokeless powder then just coming into use.

enfieldspares!
Great post. Thanks.

Indeed good post, but is this your grand-dad featured here that told you said revolver is the Spanish copy? Or are you guessing like the rest of us?

Grandad? It's me in the picture! Ha, ha!

German designation was either Revolver 634 (f) or Revolver 635 (f). I am not sure which.

No, there's just too many things that aren't "quite right" for it to be a Smith & Wesson. I see a lot of those wartime .38 S & W revolvers here in UK.

Foresight height, size of the triggerguard and the relative proportions. Main giveaway is the foresight height.

Unless he's holding a .32 S & W Long M & P which he can't be as picture is three years too early for that!

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Latham:
Guy looks like an irregular to my untrained eye, epaulettes cut off, Maqui type headgear?, anyone know what the medal is on the breast pocket? the prisoners look like they are in civvie clothing, Spanish civil war? Check out the shirt!

looks like a wound badge:










http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milice

why aren't these men wearing pants:

http://images.google.com/hoste...url=4ddaa36a327784c8

http://images.google.com/image...a=N&start=36&ndsp=18

The collar on the feature photo is unique and doesn't match any of the other photos.

Looks like we are all guessing on this otherwise fun post and there in no for sure answer!

At least all those No4 "Enfields" and Bren Guns lost at Dieppe didn't go to waste! What a cruel irony that the weapons intended to liberate France went to the Milice.

That is probably one of the most interesting pictures I've seen of a No4 anywhere! Thank you for posting it.

I checked some book pictures I have of the revolver. Note the "shadow" on the hammer which might or might not be the light.

Nevertheless these Spanish 8mm revolvers had a widened spur and were not flat sided like the S & W. Just another of those little prompts that it was Spanish.

These were not recovered from Dieppe but unfortunately directly air dropped to the miliciens when traitors worked with them or when the milice or the Gestapo could get the radio codes after torturing radio operators who did not have poison pills or could not use them.
Most of the Sten SMGs and Enfield rifles I could examine that had been air dropped were made by Long Branch arsenal, Canada.

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
These were not recovered from Dieppe but unfortunately directly air dropped to the miliciens when traitors worked with them or when the milice or the Gestapo could get the radio codes after torturing radio operators who did not have poison pills or could not use them.
Most of the Sten SMGs and Enfield rifles I could examine that had been air dropped were made by Long Branch arsenal, Canada.

Per my post above, why would the man in the initial photo at the top have a German wound badge affixed to his uniform?

Also, the linked photos of the executioners wearing boxer shorts baffles me.

Related- the book "Between Silk and Cyanide" by Leo Marx is a poignant recollection of the code-senders in Europe working for the Allies

http://www.amazon.com/Between-...1-1945/dp/B0000C37EG

S&W M&P Model, probably in 38 S&W (38/200)(or Spanish copy of S&W)

I know a guy who had a spanish copy of a K frame Smith and Wesson, from a distance it looked liget, but up close you could see it was finished waaaaay to rough for a S&W. It was in 38 spec. and I wouldnt fire it but he did on a regular basis. It burned up in a house fire so I never got to shoot it, but I didnt lose any sleep over it. Interesting photos
Eterry

quote:

Originally posted by tin can:

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
These were not recovered from Dieppe but unfortunately directly air dropped to the miliciens when traitors worked with them or when the milice or the Gestapo could get the radio codes after torturing radio operators who did not have poison pills or could not use them.
Most of the Sten SMGs and Enfield rifles I could examine that had been air dropped were made by Long Branch arsenal, Canada.

Per my post above, why would the man in the initial photo at the top have a German wound badge affixed to his uniform?

Also, the linked photos of the executioners wearing boxer shorts baffles me.

Related- the book "Between Silk and Cyanide" by Leo Marx is a poignant recollection of the code-senders in Europe working for the Allies

http://www.amazon.com/Between-...1-1945/dp/B0000C37EG

Many members of the LVF ( Légion des Volontaires Français) that was part of the Wehrmacht came from the Milice and other french organisations.
They volunteered to fight against bolchevism but refused to be transferred to the French SS Division "Charlemagne".
Many went back to the Milice.
It is clear from the ribbons this guy displays that he fought with gallantry against the invading german forces then he fought against the Soviets side by side with german soldiers.