As one of the main attractions of the Stoner designed M16 family of rifles is it's accuracy, has anyone done a study of the accuracy potential of the AK family of rifles? Can it be practically accurized, or is there inherent problems with it's design?

Just a matter of mental gymnastics for me. I'm not looking for one right now, but it would be interesting to explore.

I may be incorrect, but I've been led to understand that the biggest problem is the gas piston that is part of the bolt carrier. Large weight changing the center of gravity thing.

The SVD attempted to correct that problem and has been largely successful. The SVD could be more accurate I'm sure with the proper attention, however it is as accurate as it was designed. Different doctrine.

Our snipers "hunt," theirs primarily spot for the machine gun crew anymore. And too, why snipe at a target over 800 meters? Isn't that what artillary is for?

how you doing 120?

Eric

I'm doing fine. Despite having a mortar round land in the back yard of my building last night. It woke me up at 0100, just in time for me to get up and take a leak.

The Romanian SVD-alike I was signed for on active duty was a nail-driver, despite having the AK gas system. In addition, I routinely dismounted and remounted the scope in order to demonstrate how it was done to the troops.

I shot the crap out of it, hunted Reh with it and treated it pretty shabbily. It was routinely piled into the back of our VW van, stored in a wall-locker just piled against the back, etc.. The only bad thing I have to say about it was that it locked up so tight on the second round, that you needed a wooden mallet to clear it, and it ejected brass hard enough to stun a person, if it hit them in the forehead. It also absolutely destroyed brass in extraction.

That gun had "heap-big ju-ju".

A higher quality AK design is fully capable of at least 1 moa using quality 7.62x39 ammunition. Have tested several Sako and Valmet rifles (AK-based) myself that were able to do it. According to what I've read, the standard SVD (not really an AK) should only be capable of 1,5 - 2 moa.

After 18 years experience with AK's, I have several opinions:

1. The barrel needs to be heavier.(to better resist heat induced barrel warpage)

2. The gas piston and gas cylinder needs to be moved back and shortened.(To help dampen barrel harmonics)

3. The barrel needs to be at least 24" instead of 16.3".( to allow a fuller burn, help bullet stabilization and increase the sight radius)

4. The sheetmetal receivers flex during operation. The chinese and RPK (VEPR) styles are a little heavier to prevent this from happening. The milled units are OK as is and seem to not flex.

I am in the middle of building a "target" version with a milled receiver to prove/disprove the ideas. OG

Old Gringo:
You make some very good observations here. Your four points are well taken and would no doubt enhance the accuracy potential of the AK and variants. Having said that, none other than Mr. Kalashnikov himself in a show on the History Channel said the gun was 'accurate enough.' I can only assume he meant it was "minute of enemy" accurate and that was all that was needed.
One other thing and I'll sit down again: I read years ago that a study was done (H. P. White Labs?) and the 'optimum' accuracy bullet weight was a minimum of some 150grs for a 30 cal. As the AK operates with a 123gr bullet I have often wondered if it were loaded with the 150gr what would happen to accuracy? I have all the stuff just never tried it. Also the bullets are .308 and the AK bore is a nominal .311 so that would have a decided effect.
Boy, is this great stuff or what?
sat Cong!
'Trapper'

Hey Trapper,
The Benchresters regularly use .30 bullets of 120-130grs. So, they can be accurate.
Another problem of the AK design is the barrel doesn't float. Sling one up and you will become painfully aware of what I mean!

There are several thoughts here that I may take issue with.

The "stamped receiver flexes." Maybe, but so what? The barrel trunion is what the bolt/barrel locks up in, and it's plenty strong enough for the action of ignition. The bullet should be long gone before any flexing of the receiver is an issue. I think the only issue here may be a pinned barrel vs a threaded barrel.

I just happen to be an "old world" guy and prefer the machined receiver. Not because the stamped receiver isn't strong enough, it just offends my sensabilities.

"Barrel float." Just for the sake of argument, neither does the M1 Garand or M14/M1A barrels if you take into account they are gas operated, also with gas pistons, with gas blocks pinned (pinned, screwed, same difference) to the barrel. As the AK's front hand guard is separate from anything else, would this not then give the AK a better ability for accuracy treatment? If you think about it, the whole front of the AK "floats."

Barrel harmonics. Humm, what about that? Isn't the distance between the receiver and gas block on a AK closer than that of the M1 and M1A/M-14? Looks closer to me. I would think that the harmonics are a result of a smaller diameter and shorter barrel than the placement of the gas block.

This is just a guess, as I have absolutly no intention at present of building a target grade AK (why, I already have stuff that does that), but, if you were to build an AK with a match grade, 20 to 24 inch barrel, insure the chamber dimensions were "match grade" (is there such a thing with 7.62x39?), and tune the trigger, you would have an accurate rifle. I think you could do it with a stamped receiver, my objections would be arbitrary.

Comments?

Eric

[ 09-17-2003, 07:43: Message edited by: Eric ]

Ah!

So, are you saying that you must shoot a rifle with a sling in order to be accurate?

If you don't use a sling you cannot be accurate?

Me thinks that some other folks are not "thinking."

While a sling can, and is, used frequently to "assist" accuracy, it need not actually have to be a factor in the equation.

The barrel tube thing you mentioned is possible, but folks were shooting 1000 yard shot groups long before we started using slings to "assist" the practice.