I'm thinking about picking up a few of these for beater rifles, and was wondering if any of the milsurp houses have paticularly good deals on mismatched s/n beaters?

Big 5 frequently has M44's for $49.95. The one I got recently has near 100% metal, and the typical military stock. This is a great "back of the pick-up seat" rifle.

You should also check www.gunboards.com. The companies that sponsor that board frequently have good deals on various types of MN's. I've bought a couple of very nice Finnish M39's from Wholesale Guns and Ammo.

There are plenty of M44's right now. That model has a 20" barrel, and a non-removable bayonet lug, which is little bit of a nuisance. The M38 typically costs a bit more, but is the same gun, less bayonet and lug. Both are noted for their recoil and muzzle blast, and for being very handy rifles.

A big favorite is the Finnish M39. It has a 27" barrel, and is noted for its accuracy (Finns put good barrels on them, shimmed them properly, and did trigger jobs on them). The longer barrel gives it much milder recoil and muzzle blast. WG&A is the usual source for these.

With the 27" bbl, you can load for performance in the 308 to 30-06 neighborhood. I get 2665 fps out of a 180 grain slug. I also get 3047 fps out of 123 grain bullets. Haven't chrony'd that load in the M44, but I think it will be a good plinker load, with mild recoil and blast.

If you get one in nice condition, it is NOT a cheap, crummy gun. I wouldn't hesitate to take one of my Finns out after deer or pronghorn.

My favorite milsurp ammo is "Czech silvertips". They are fairly cheap, and decently made. They are, however, corrosive. So, if you shoot those, clean appropriately.

For handloads, I buy S&B 180 grain ammo, and pull the bullets. The load is too stout for the MN. I then reprime and reload these with my own recipes, which produce less pressure and better muzzle velocity.

Just as a side note - Hodgdon came out with some "new" 7.62x54R data about a month ago - using BLC(2), they drove a 150gr. at 3000+ fps with pressures well under 50,000psi. Also, the dimensions of the 7.62x54R case make it a dream
to reload IMHO.

Hmmmm.... have to try some of that BL-C(2). I'm getting 2840 in a 27" bbl, with 50 grains of Varget, and a 150 grain pill.

Worth mentioning: As far as I can tell, Finnish M39's routinely slug at .3105". Other Mosins vary from .308" to .314". That alone makes the Finnish M39 a good choice. They dependably shoot .311" amd .3105" bullets properly.

My VKT likes .308's much better than .311's. I haven't slugged the barrel though, so it may be on the short side of .310. I think it's worth shooting both diameters to find the best one in a particular rifle.

You all probably know these things better than I do, but the way I heard it the M39 is made as a compromise to function safely and accurately with both .308 and .311 bullets. The story behind it is that Finland used .308 bullets in the 7.62x53R Finnish, and Russia .311 in their 7.62x54R Russian. So, to make it safe to fire russian ammunition we made the M39 for a slightly larger diameter compared to earlier models. .310 I believe.

[ 12-22-2002, 03:42: Message edited by: VKTM39 ]

I picked up a couple of Hungarian M-44's at Big-5. They have nice stocks, the action is smooth. The bolt handle could be alittle longer though. I slugged the bore in mine and got some interesting results. They measured .301x.313x.314. The grooves on opposite sides of the bbl measured differently. I got the same measurement on both guns. I've thought about sporterizing one, but I think the magazine is ugly and would need to be converted to a Mauser syle or something. For the price though It's worth picking one up. Remember when SKS' went for 50-60 bucks? Now they are priced close to $200 in the gun shops. I should have kept a case of the russian ones.

Paul by all means get the Polish built guns. They are head & shoulders above the rest!

Why buy a beater rifle when never shot 91/30;s are so cheap. I just a 1939 that was never fired from Southern Ohio Gun International the price was right at 129.95. Bear Claw is right about the
Polish M44 they are perfect.
Steve

Are these the rifles i have been seeing around with the bayonets on them? A local dealer is selling the model 44 for 139.95. Can i find it cheaper or is this a good deal? Oh yeah, i believe that the clip sort of folds down but does not detach.

Gentlemen,

Go to http://home.earthlink.net/~paralax1/page9.htm#Curio%20and%20Relics

for a long list of C&R dealers. Greg P you should be able to get new Russians ($80.00) and good used Poles for around $100.00 make sure to specify you want a pristine bore.

I am taking my 3 m44's to UAF for a project. I will rent a muzzle reamer and am going to ream the muzzle back about an inch since the muzzle itslef is buggered on the Poles. The Russky is new.

I bought a Hungarian M-44 for $65 at a local shop. It will put 3 LVE 204gr softpoints in 3/4" at 100yds with the issue sights.

Ok.....I just bought an M39...Finnish...B barrel..paid $220. with shipping insurance. Is this a fair price or was i taken?
BTW.....it's an all matching numbers gun and appears unfired.

Hello lofter. It sounds like you got one of the WG&A unissued B barelled M39's. I think they sell for $199.00 to the dealer. At least with my C&R that is what I would have to pay. I think shipping is about $9 or $10 to Pa. So all in all you did real good. Your FFL must be a good friend to not charge any transfer fee. $199 gun + $10 ship + $5 nics + $6 tax = $220 OTD = Real Good!
PS- Just wait till you shoot it, you'll be very happy.

I shot my 91/30 at the range and was disapointed. It shot about 12 inches right at 50 yards on a rest. I moved the frount rest from the thick to thin part of stock with no change. The worst part is the front sight is already far to the right with a factory witness mark on it.Soon i will Look to see if the stock is pressing on the barrel. Wish they all were as easy as sweeds.
Steve

ProudCR: It's not all gravy. I have a $20 fee due at my ffl. It includes NICS and state tax.

VKMT39 et al, What you say about the Model 39 may be true. However, my Sako-barreled M 39 (as issued, all matching, excellent condition) has a .311" bore whereas my two M 28/30's (also Sako, as issued and in excellent condition) slug out to .310". Actually the bores on the M 39's can be as small as .308" and as large as .314". Btw, I fire only [home-] cast bullets through mine with 2 m.o.a. accuracy on average, but sometimes half of that. Lastly, I'd recommend the M28/30's over the M 39's because of their heavier bbl. and either of these over the M 38's or M 44's because of the adjustable front sight. ...Maven

Roundbutt.. try some different ammo. I have a real poor looking MN that I paid $44 for. When I bought it , I got a bunch of old, I assumed Russian ammo (string tied brown paper) and it would do groups well enough to stay on a mans chest at 100 yards. Sometimes better, but not much. Looking at how the guns was made/finished, I wasn't surprised.
A year or two down the road, that bulk of ammo ran out. I bought more "surplus" ammo, again string tied brown paper packs. Went to the range, and my buddy proceded to shoot MOA groups with the "new" old ammo, and that same sorry looking gun. So you really can't be too sure.

Paul - A friend of mine casts for several milsurps including a 28/30. About two months ago, I shot a 1.5", 100yd. group from his 28/30 with his cast loads. I think he used 25.5gr. of IMR-4895 with a 180gr. bullet. I think you guys who make and shoot their own cast bullets in rifles, and get 2 MOA or better, are at the TOP of the reloading game!!!

I wouldn't call alot of these "beaters", actually...there's quite a few out there in goood to very good condition, still cheap. I bought Polish M-44, that had been re-arsenaled 1944, which is almost mint (and a blast to shoot to)..After I strip the varnish off the stock, and iron out a couple dings, re-finish expect it to look pretty much unissued

There are a few m38 rifles still out there that look very good, try AIM WHOLESALE. CENTERFIRE SYSTEMS has rearsenalled m91/30s and some m44 Romanians that look unissued. I bought 5 of the Romos in 1 week.
My best shooting m91/30 is a Finned VKT, "d" barrel/SA dated 1942. The bore is so rough it literally shreds patches, yet it will shoot 3" @ 100 yds. with every surplus ammo I try.
Cost? 1-$50 bill, out the door.

Cas tried different ammo but still shoots bad. Barrel may be bent. When I have time I will check it. Thanks for help.