Did someone see the show on the Discovery channel tonight where a group of people tried to figure out who really killed the Red Baron in WWI? I was watching some of it in my wife's hospital room. (She just had surgery and was recovering). I didn't catch all of it, but I think they determined that he wasn't shot by the Canadian that was credited with killing him. He was killed by a .303 caliber bullet and they figure he was shot from around 400 - 800 yards. (I think they may have pinned-down the range a little better than that also, but I couldn't hear it) I didn't hear what length of a lead the shooter must have used to hit him. The plane was going about 100 mph at about a right angle to the Australian shooter that they think killed him.

Does anyone know how far out in front the shooter must have been aiming to hit the plane? The show looked pretty interesting.

The controversy about who killed Richtofen has been going on since the incident occurred. The Aussies claim "Gunner Bluie" of their Army shot him down. I believe the evidence that he was hit by a .303 round fired from the ground is pretty conclusive. However, I suspect the Canadian aircraft also used .303 caliber MGs. I have no idea the amount of lead required to hit an aircraft moveing 100 MPH at ranges of 400 to 800 yards would be; however, assuming that "Gunner Bluie" was firing a machine gun, it is likely that he had a tracer every fifth or sixth round, which would show him where to aim.

[ 05-08-2003, 18:51: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

If you do a search on this site, this topic was talked about some time back, and there was a link to a couple of sites that discuss this in some detail. There's still some debate, and for now I'm going with the home team. - Dan

A Canadian shot him down?....bah...had to be an Aussie, we're bloody good shots

Bakes

Alot of it comes down to "How long would he have lived with the wound that he had?"

SOme say he would be dead pretty close to instantly, which gives credence to the Aussie ground forces.

But we've all seen a deer run 100 yards with no lungs or heart left,so that gives the nod to the Canadian pilot.

We'll never really know, so I pick the pilot!

Curly,
Shame you missed the show. Being a history buff I've been interested in this event for a long time. The show credited Evans with the kill. My memory isn't too good, but I think a three plane length was mentioned as the necessary lead. I believe it's possible to order a copy of the show tape on line. Have a good one.

I saw the show and was impressed with the way they recreated the aerial battle via computer and laser. The consensus of opinion supported by the recreation was that Canadian pilot Roy Brown, credited for all these years with shooting down the Red Baron, could not have wrapped his plane around enough to have gotten the deflection shot he would have had to have attained to shoot the Baron down, his aircraft (Sopwith 'Camel') was simply not capable of such performance. The show never stated but did lead one to believe it was a 'lucky' shot fired most likely by a rifleman based on a single bullet wound and no recorded hits on the aircraft. A lot of the theory was developed on the written autopsy report from the British doctors that attended the body as there were no pictures of the actual wounds, etc. I still have a lot of questions about the event but guess they will never be answered. Probably does shoot some holes in my belifs that it was actually Snoopy that shot him down!
Best regards,

One thing is clear...

The Allied forces treated the Red Baron as what he was- a capable adversey.

They made sure his body was not desecrated, and the whole thing was very chivalrous.

Gotta respect a guy that fights well, hard and honorably, regardless of wich side he is on.

Chivalrous? Respect? Maybe but more an effort to retain some semblence of human dignity. War is a dehumanizing experience at any level but most evident in combat troops.

Well, I'll be damned. All these years I thought Snoopy the beagle shot the Red Baron down while flying a rare plane that resembled a doghouse of sorts. I guess it just goes to sh0w that you're never too old to learn. I am disappointed though. I had so hoped it was Snoopy. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Well said Gatehouse...

"The Allied forces treated the Red Baron as what he was- a capable adversey.
They made sure his body was not desecrated, and the whole thing was very chivalrous."
Many of our boys found humane treatment at the hands of the Germans also.

I think this is why the Brits and Germans actually get on quite well togeather.
Tho they have done awful things to each other in the past, there are many such episodes such as this, that have sort of made a pool of respect for each other that makes it easy to be friends.

It's not suprising a bullet hit him as there must have been a trainload of 303 unloaded in his direction during his carrier.
Just amaising to me any of those pilots survived as long as they did.

About three weeks on average, survival of the pilots that is. - Dan

Here's some crude math.

A bullet going an AVERAGE of 2000fps over 800 yards has a time in flight of 1.2 seconds.

A plane going 100 mph covers 147 feet per second. In 1.2 seconds that plane goes 176 feet!

Therefore it stands to reason that this would be the lead required given the data above is accurate.

Mike

An Aussie farm boy....
Could probably take a bird on the wing, with his dads gun since he could walk.
Give him a good 303 and some tracer...

But then a Kanuck....
With the bit between his teeth, and The Barron in his sights....

The Barron was for it, one way or the other.

If Snoopy had Stealth perhaps he did do it.
Just no one saw him.


[ 05-24-2003, 02:07: Message edited by: The Specialist ]

during WW 1 there was a lot of respect and honor especially among pilots. WW1 pilots are sometimes called nights of the sky. I heard of cases where on both sides a downed pilot would be captured taken back to the enemey's airadrome (airbase) and they would sit down and have some wine or beer and cigaretts and then they would let the guy go free to back to his comrades

Sadly that quickly became more rare. But even in WW2 the Gremans holding D.Bader sent over for some new legs when he had to leave his behind in the plane when he got shot down.