During the recent Iraq War, I heard a reporter say that the smell of cordite filled the air.

I suspect that the reporter was trying to show how astute and informed he is about military stuff. I also suspect he got his cordite notion from watching "Matlock" or "Walker, Texas Ranger".

How long has it been since cordite was used in military ammunition? Is there any chance at all that this reporter caught a whiff of cordite?

Maybe this is al my misunderstanding. Were there any reporters embedded with irregular rifle companies who carried Enfields and 50 year old surlpus ammo?

H. C.

Never heard of anybody using cordite except the British. My guess is that most reporters are so anti-gun ignorant that they are still using nomenclature from old Agatha Christie mysteries in an attempt to sound knowledgeable. Personally, I consider all newspaper and television reporters to be recycled Pravda "jounalists". Regards, curmudgeon

It's a bit like 'gunpowder' and 'shrapnel'; words which are normally used inaccurately, but are chosen because they are convenient shorthands.

After all to say that he "could smell the nitro-based propellant powder" doesn't have the same ring, does it?

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

I don't believe any propellants for military ammunition are being made in England at present. I am not sure when the manufacture of Cordite was discontinued, but I have had some old MkVII .303 British ammo that was loaded with it. I recall it was headstamped some time during WWII. I believe they changed over to nitrocellulose (IMR extruded type) powders prior to rebarrelling their No. 4 rifles to .7.62 NATO, none of which was ever loaded with Cordite!! None but the British, and some Commonwealth nations, ever used Cordite!! It was an interesting propellant, but has been obsolete for at least 50 years!!

HEH, Cordite... Well lets lets leave it at this, Cordite is ALMOST as old as Methuselah (sp)

Isn't cordite just long skinny pieces of nitrocellulose, the same thing regular smokelesss powder is made of? Does cordite smell any different when it burns?

H. C.

Cordite is composed of;58%Nitroglycerine,37%guncotton{nitrocellulose},and 5% mineral jelly{vaseline}.
WC

It does have a slightly different odor, yes.

This pic of sectioned cartridges shows what the cordite in the Boys AT rifle round looked like: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/atrs.jpg

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

I've disassembled a few .303 rounds that were loaded with it. It looked more like pieces of thin sphagetti to me. A little translucent, and a medium tan in color.

Any idea what kind of propellant they use for big naval guns? When I was a kid, I toured a battlewaggon. The sailor told us that they used four 100 pound sacks of black powder for each shot(16" guns). Is that still the case?

El Viejo, to put it simply from a few Navy friends.... MMMmmm Yeah.

They did not use black powder! They used a nitrocellose smokeless propellant in the US Navy's 16 in guns. The British used Cordite in their naval batteries. The US Navy's 16" naval guns were the highest velocity navel guns ever built. Their increased muzzle velocity made then the equal of a traditional 18" naval gun! Actually, the US 16" naval gun could outpenetrate a Japanese 18.1" naval gun at 18,000 yards, by about 1" of steel.

Lucs

I am just repeating what I think I remember hearing. I was 8 at the time. Re smokeless. I have seen pictures of broadsides fired from battlewaggons ca WWII. There seems to be a lot of smoke. Were they using the same nitrocelluose?

Any idea of chamber pressures on those big guns?

Actually cordite IS smoleless powder in a different form. When I was a kid and was into all that "science stuff" I acquired a cigar box full of WWII vintage 303 ammo. I pulled the bullets with pliers to get at the powder and found these long yellowish sticks filling the case. When you look at each "stick" closely it looks like a straw with a hole through the center. (extruded powder. I can't imagine how they loaded this stuff economically.
U.S. stick powders are the same thing except that they are cut into smaller pieces and coated with graphite (and sometimes retardants to control the burn rate) to make it flow through powder measures more easily.

Tony not to start an argument, but your information does not match the US Navy's! The armor peircing round does not weigh 2700 pounds that was a HE round, for which muzzle velocity was 2625 fps! The armor piercing projectile weighted around 2250 pounds with a muzzle velocity ~ 2900 fps! The Japanese 18.1" would out penetrate the American 16" up to ~ 14000 yds. After that the American round took over. The American's also possessed far better fire control than did the Japanese. So in a duel of super battle wagons the American's would almost certainly have had the advantage. The load as I recall was around 150 pounds of powder! That will make a lot of smoke, even if it is nitrocellose based! Hell, the very name of the US naval gun was High Velocity 16" battery, for cyrin' out loud!

None of the European nations fielded naval artillery anywhere near as effective as the US or Japan!

Lucs

[ 05-11-2003, 20:38: Message edited by: 500 A2 ]

Lucs, I suggest you post a question on the Warships1 battleship board - there are people on that who know everything there is to know on the subject. They have helpfully compiled info on all naval guns, and you can take it as gospel. For the USN, see: http://www.warships1.com/Weapons/WNUS_main.htm

As you will see, the very heavy AP shell used in the 16" L/50 (Iowa class) had a muzzle velocity in a new gun of 2,500 fps as I stated.

There were lighter shells fired from earlier models of US 16" gun (although none was fired at a high velocity), but the L/50 plus 2,700 lb combination was the real penetrator.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

I have seen and used POF 303 dated '67 and loaded with cordite and IF they are still manufacturing it they will still be using cordite. I suppose thats getting close to fifty years.
During WWI the demand for cordite exceded supply and the powers that be approached DuPont for a solution. As a result IMR 16 came into being as a duplicate for cordite and cases loaded with it were headstamped "z". Post WWI this powder was canistered as "IMR 3031" ie 303#1. During WWII DAC 303 ammo could be loaded with either.
My wifes grandfather was CO of the coastal defences of Western Australia up to and during WWII and I am informed that the exact range of each shot (hardly seems the right word) was controlled by adjusting the amount of cordite in the "secondary" charges. Atmospheric pressure and humidity were elements that had to be considered in all calculations. Facinating subject that all big calibre gunners would consider old hat.

Tony--Were can we get some fired or empty 55 cal Boyes brass.Thats a great picture on the link
of a 55 cal sectioned case.Ed.