What is your opinion on the 1911?

The U.S. military versions were great unless they were shot out, which most of them were by the time they were retired. The civilian versions are great, although some are so tight that any amount of dirt will jam them.

My design nitpicks about the 1911 are the pivoting link, the slide stop / safety plunger tube and the internal extractor. If those were addressed, then the 1911 would be more up-to-date. Oh wait, all those improvements are found in the Browning Hi-Power.

WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and how many other places have they seen action? I carried one in the Corps in Vietnam, it never let me down once and it went through a lot of shit. The Corps still uses them. I have an issue 1911, it shoots great, it's reliable and it's NOT for sale.

And, if the Browning Highpower came in a real pistol cartridge, I'd buy one. sorry for the cheap shot, but what made the M1911 was the .45 cartridge. And a CZ or one of it's clones is as far superior in design AND CARTRIDGE CHOICE to the Highpower, as the Highpower is to the M1911.

I'll probably be buying a 10mm EAA Witness when I get home. I'm tired of carrying this mousegun M9. Though the CZ 97 looks thoroughly badass....

Colt 1911A1, accept no substitutes.

And, I've shot many, many others. S&W (9 or 10 kinds), SIG, Beretta, Browning's (FN), Walthers, Glocks, CZ's (which I really like for a 9mm), Lugers, C-96's, Llama, Astra, etc, etc.

Most all these pistols are fine, well made, accurate enough, and throughly available. I just happen to like the old war horse. As mentioned, it's been through four major wars, countless other actions and has a reputation to be envied.

A new pistol made to milspec is most adaquate, if you do your job. Again, as mentioned, all the pistol's in inventory were wore out by the late 60's, early 70's, so of course some think they were junk. They did however still work, still put down an adversy with one shot, and were still utterly dependable.

Works for me.

Regards,

Eric

The 1911 and its' variants have proven themselves over and over again in the worst kinds of situations the world has to offer from desert sands to the jungles of the Pacific to the frozen wastes of the Arctic, since it was adopted in 1911!!

What more can be added to its laurels??

120 mm,
Very good point. I forgot about the CZ family and the available calibers.

And, yes, the 1911 has stupendous laurels upon which to rest, but so does the Colt SAA, the BAR, M-1 Garand, yet their time has passed.

I'm just saying the 1911 could stand some sort of comprehensive overhaul while keeping the original format of the 1911 alive -- single stack, SA, cocked-n-locked .45 (or 10mm or 9x23). Why have some of the (apparent?) weaknesses I've pointed out been persisted for so many years?

Its like the good old Chevy small block. Been around for years, with plenty of go fast parts availble. But have you seen the newer LS-1? A friggin' work of manufacturing art that is a major leap forward in power and efficiency over its grandfather, the smallblock.

Almost 100 years old and every other design is still compared to it. Pretty much says it all.

I have a kimber and I wouldn't trade it for anything else. That being said I couldn't stand it at first. I was used to double stsck autos and they're resulting oversized grips. My 1911 seemed to thin at first, but with a little practice I really like it and have won several pin shoots with it.

There is not, nor has there ever been, a better combat handgun.

Tricked out, it's a pretty good target handgun, too.

120mm,

The Practical Shooting community has tried about everything in a race gun. Berettas break early (second hand but good info). High Powers can be hotrodded, but takes lots of money and 9x19 major is NOT safe!

1911s in their various forms cannot be beaten. I have personally burned out more than one barrel on a frame before major repairs were needed (slide relacement) shooting 38 Super Major loads (125 gr slugs at 1440 fps). Gun made 40,000 rounds before needing a slide!!!!

The best 1911 variants seem to the those derived from the McCormick-Tripp steel action section with polymer grips. These double column guns are just wonderful.

In terms of caliber, 1911s in 9x19 are very soft recoiling. Major super is very interesting and quite controllable. 10mm is less controllable and has had some difficulty getting that long case out after firing. 40 S&W loaded to almost the length of 10 mm gives the best of both worlds ... lots of energy with low pressure, and a short case to extract. And of course, the 45 ACP is a fine caliber for real work.

I personally like CZ 75's as well. We own 4 of them. Two in 9mm and 40 S&W, one in 9x21 that has a 9x19 bbl in its future, and a 9x21 custom race gun. These guns are great in lighter loadings, but do not hold up like the 1911s. They break small parts ... firing pins, slide stops, safeties and such.

Berettas can't hold a candle to either the 1911 or the CZ75.

The only non-1911 firearm I'll carry (in the summer) is the HK P7. Nice and flat. Always has a single action trigger pull, and has great recoil characteristics. Mine have never malfunctioned either.

I'll first-hand you the info on Berettas breaking. Mine sucks, and I've seen plenty of inop ones.

The CZs are my personal favorite, though I can see the point with the small parts breaking. I mean, after all, more and smaller parts generally means parts breaking more often and earlier.

I hadn't even considered the longer case of the 10mm being an issue. As I'm not married to cartridges, I'm interested in how closely to 10mm ballistics the .40 can be loaded. After all, the .40 is THE popular cartridge, right now, and everything in .40 is fairly inexpensive.

It's all about cost-efficiency, after all.

The trick with length of the round is the weapon it's fired in and that weapon's magazine.

My 40 S&W race gun is built from a Safari Arms stainless single column frame fitted with a Nowlin ramped barrel and a Colt Delta Elite10mm slide. The slide has actually had 1/2" milled off the front because 40 S&W loaded long can make major power factor with ease so you don't need full length barrel.

The gun uses 10mm magazines for race ammo and 40 S&W mags for shooting store bought shells.

I load all the 40 S&W I shoot through it to the longer length.

As I said in some post recently, this gun will make 1580 fps with 135 gr Nosler HPs. That is WAY over the top for any rational use.

Three years ago I hit a doe with 135s from this gun traveling at 1350 fps. The lady was standing braodside at 60 yards. As I started to squeeze the trigger sheturned to look at me. The bullet entered the front of the chest. She did a front summersault and was dead when she hit the ground.

The bullet must have detonated in the upper chest, because everything north of the diaphragm was mush ... huge plaques of clotted blood and tissue fragments. But ... the diaphragm was still in place, and the lower gut was not disturbed.

It makes my skin crawl to think what a load like that would do to a person.

I suspect this approach and a standard length barrel will just about match a 10mm.

Almost forgot! Over the years I've found a number of 10 mm cases at ranges that were obviously once fired because they still had sealant around the primer ... but the rear end of the cases were bulged to a greater or lesser degree in the area of the feed ramp. Some were badly bulged. With any 10 mm or 40 S&W that is being pushed for velocity, I strongly recommend a fully supported barrel. This is usually not inexpensive because it means milling the frame for the heal of the ramped section as well as a new barrel. But ... I've never seem this bulging with a properly supported barrel. Believe me, it beats the hell out of brass fragments in the face or having rounds in the magazine detonated by a gas release from a ruptured case. (Have seen a 45 ACP or two actually do this. Makes a mess.)

Say "HI" to Russell for me ... and tell'm we sure appreciated his note.

Stay safe and well in country!

[ 07-27-2003, 09:31: Message edited by: mstarling ]