Does anyone know where to purchase a CZ 52 rifle?
There are pistols available, but I'can't find a rifle anywhere. Would sure love to have one.

Thanks,

Jordan

Jordan,
You are looking for the CZ rifle in .22 mag?? I have one that has maybe 2 boxes of shells through it max and wood is in excellent shape. Would consider selling it if this is what you are looking for. I just bought the CZ in .17HMR and both are wonderful shooters. J&G in Prescott, AZ usually stock them also.
BJB

Jordan,
Please excuse the previous post. Way too early in the morning to be thinking!! You are looking for the Chec. ex-military rifle that the Cubans used a lot. Might also try J&G for them.
Sorry for the errant post.
BJB

quote:

Originally posted by BJB:
Jordan,
Please excuse the previous post. Way too early in the morning to be thinking!! You are looking for the Chec. ex-military rifle that the Cubans used a lot. Might also try J&G for them.
Sorry for the errant post.
BJB

No Problem BJB. I should have made myself clearer. Yes. I am looking for the Czech semi-auto military rifle. It has the delayed roller-locked action and shoots a 7.65 mm bullet.


Thanks,


Jordan

Jordon, I think you are looking for a "Vz52" and not a "CZ52".



Am I correct?

If so, you'll have much better luck searching under the heading of "Vz52" or "Vzor52".

Have you thought about ammo? Pretty hard to come by!

Good luck!

DaMan:

You are correct---and thank you. It is the VZ I am after. I've not given much thought to ammo availability.

Thanks,

Jordan

The VZ52 is chambered for the 7.62X45 cartridge - I don't think anything else ever was. The only ammo I've seen lately was at http://www.buymilsurp.com/store and I believe it was $45.00 plus S&H for Czech mil surp - not the end of the world but not cheap either. A friend of mine had one, shot up all his ammo and bought a kit (?) to convert it to 7.62X39 so he could shoot up all that good cheap ammo floating around.
And finally - any real reason you want one of the VZ52's? If you just want a milsurp that everyone else doesn't have try and find an FN49 or the like - they come in 7x57 and several other calibers easily obtained and reloaded. Just a thought.

Trapper, I'm with Jordan. I'd like to own a Vz52 too. Under NO circumstances would I convert it to 7.62 X 39!

These Vz52s are an interesting "missing link" in the SKS history. If you convert them to 7.62x39, you ruin their collectability.

I think the 7.62 x 45mm shares the same .445" rim and .311" bullet that the 7.62 x 39 uses but with a stretched case.

RCBS Custom (Huntington) still makes 7.62mmx45 Czech dies.

Maybe Ken Howell or some expert on cartridge conversion could recommend cases that could be formed to load the 7.62x45 Czech.

John J. Donnelly's "The Handloaders Manual Of Cartridge Conversions" recommends making them out of .220 Swift. It's not an easy one either. Calls for turning the rim, cutting a new extractor groove, annealing and such.

Donnely's conversions are sometimes labor intensive, but his advice works and it usually lasts a long, long time.

Regards,

Eric

quote:

Originally posted by DaMan:
Trapper, I'm with Jordan. I'd like to own a Vz52 too. Under NO circumstances would I convert it to 7.62 X 39!

These Vz52s are an interesting "missing link" in the SKS history. If you convert them to 7.62x39, you ruin their collectability.

I think the 7.62 x 45mm shares the same .445" rim and .311" bullet that the 7.62 x 39 uses but with a stretched case.

RCBS Custom (Huntington) still makes 7.62mmx45 Czech dies.

Maybe Ken Howell or some expert on cartridge conversion could recommend cases that could be formed to load the 7.62x45 Czech.

Can't recall what they were called and don't have time to dig out the info now - late out again! but I beleive the VZ52 was issued in a variant that was chambered for the 7.62X39 - maybe something like the VZ52/57 or the like? Been too long since I looked. Anyway, it was only mentioned to allow one to be able to shoot away with a rifle not otherwise very usable. Wonder if you could use a chamber plug to fire 7.62X39 in the 7.72X45 chamber like the US Navy used to fire 308 in the 30-06 chamber of the M-1 Garand?? Shouldn't be hard to machine one and I don't see why it wouldn't work? Ideas here?
Must run - will check back later.

I seem to recall that when these rifles hit the US a chamber insert was being offered to convert from 7.62x45 to7.62x39. Maybe they are still out there, sitting in someone's wharehouse or store shelf.

I also seem to recall that the loadings between the two were not all that different. Of course all the Czech stuff is hot compared to anyone else's standards.

I've been kicking myself for not getting several of these when they were about $100.00, just like the Rashid. Doh!

I don't believe that I'd call them "a missing link in SKS history" as these rifles were a totally different design, and not at all related to the SKS. Sure, it fired a similar cartridge (until they were modified to take 7.62x39) but a completly seperate endevor. Both the SKS and VZ 52 can stand on their own merits. Too bad the VZ 52 was of such limited production.

Regards,

Eric

quote:

I beleive the VZ52 was issued in a variant that was chambered for the 7.62X39 - maybe something like the VZ52/57 or the like?

The Czechs converted the Vz52 to the Vz52/57 so it would use the Wawrsaw Pact standard 7.62x39mm cartridge.

A chamber insert would work, but it's not ideal. You lose the extra power of the original cartridge and the long freebore is not ideal for accuracy.

I'm also not sure how well it would feed the 7.62x39mm. The Vz52/57s used a different magazine. I'm also not sure if the Vz52/57 magazine would fit in the Vz52 without modification.



The cartridge conversion route is also problematic.

It looks to me like you could use the .220 Swift case to make 7.62x45mm cases. However, it sure wouldn't be fun or easy!

You would not only have to size and trim the .220 Swift case..... you would also have to turn down the rim!

I still would like to have a Vz52!

Your best bet is either a gun show (Sacto., Cow Palace, Reno NV, etc.) or one of the forums more focused on milsurp rifles, like gunboards.com.

You can form excellent cases from .220 swift brass. It's a little time consuming (there are 6 or 7 operations required), but isn't too difficult (and it is kind of fun). I've fired mine 5 or 6 times now and they're good as new. Just don't want to lose too many at the range (then it isn't fun).

Use 7.62 x 39 load data and you're good to go. You lose about 50 fps over 7.62 x 39, due to the larger case volume, You won't even notice unless the difference unless you use a chronograph (which is how I know).

I didn't have good luck with surplus ammo, although others have. YMMV.

There are chamber sleeves available to convert to 7.62 x 39mm. IIRC, they used to run about $35. I chose not to go that route, but there's nothing wrong with them. The worst thing that can happen is that the insert decides to eject itself with a fired case and is lost.

There are VZ-52/57s that are chambered for 7.62 x 39mm. The good news is that these didn't end up in Central & So. America, so they're usually in really nice condition. The bad news is that they are pricey ($500-$700), at least twice as expensive as a VZ-52.

Most VZ-52s saw hard service in the various bannana republics of Central & So. America and show it. Mine had a nice bore (most don't), but the triggergroup was so worn out that the hammer wouldn't stay back and the magazine fell out after every shot. Once I replaced the trigger group, things improved considerably. After I got the action bedded so it wasn't loose in the stock, it shoots 1 inch groups at 50 yds if I do my part.

Most of the VZ-52s for sale are the Century Arms refurbs with the black spray-on bedliner finish. However, Samco also sold some without the black shit, before Century got into the game. Mine is a Samco.

They're interesting and fun to shoot. All the best,

Ralph

quote:

You can form excellent cases from .220 swift brass. It's a little time consuming (there are 6 or 7 operations required), but isn't too difficult (and it is kind of fun). I've fired mine 5 or 6 times now and they're good as new. Just don't want to lose too many at the range (then it isn't fun).

I for one would be curious as to the process and equipment needed, Ralph! TIA!

PS - I got a chance to shoot a Vzor 52 in Germany with military ammo. I don't know how it shot..... but it wasn't much different from the recoil of the 7.62 x 39 and put more "WHACK" on the spot. The 7.62 Czech delivers a 129-130 gr. bullet at about 2450 fps from the Vz52.

No, they are NOT roller "delayed recoil" operated.

DaMan:

Are you sure the VZ 52 rifle does not have the delayed roller- locked action? I know the CZ 52 pistol has it. I thought they both did. To be honest, my main reason for wanting one was to have that action. I think it is a real feat of engineering and manufacturing.


Jordan

Only posting this for info - from another MilSurp forum:

7.62X45MM Ammo
Jersey City Armory LLC (201) 369-0444

1,200 round case, $99.00 plus shipping. Good quality surplus.

Price sure sounds right but that's all I can say.
And BTW, you might want to visit at http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/mb/surplusrifle?forum=24917 This forum is dedicated to MilSurp and has a ton of info on virtually every type of military weapon. The VZ52 site alone is well worth a look.

The way I've approached the case forming process is as follows:

1) Anneal the case necks. I use a propane torch and bucket of water.

2) Cut some stock off of the .220 case to make it within about .125 of the length of the Czech case. I use a Dremel. It doesn't have to be pretty, just hack the excess material off.

3) Lube the snot out out of the cases and full-length size them. I use RCBS 7.62 x45 dies. Because you haven't dealt with the case rim yet, you'll need two shellholders: one for .220 Swift and one for 7.62 x 39.

4) Trim the formed cases to finished length. I use a case-trimmer, but a trim die will work too.

5) Turn down the case rim (same dia. as 7.62 x 39). I did it by chucking the case in a drill press and using a file to remove the excess material. A lathe would work as well.

6) Cut the extractor groove. There will be a little bit of the original extractor groove left. With the case still chucked uo in the drill press, I used a hacksaw blade to deepen the extractor groove to the same diameter as a 7.62 x 39 case.

The VZ-52 rifle does not use the roller type action that the CZ-52 pistol does. It uses a tipping bolt to lock & unlock the action for cycling. The CETME and G3 (HK 91 & 93 series) assault rifles use the roller type action.

Hope that helps.

Ralph

Trapper, that number for Jersey City Armory LLC (201) 369-0444 has been disconnected.

You sure they are still in business?

quote:

Jersey City Armory LLC

No - it was sent to me in an email re the website I listed. The original sender I won't be able to get in touch with until next week as he is flying an international trip. I checked both the number and the name listing and looks like they are kaput. Sorry if I put up bum dope.
I also have another interesting site with a lot of data re the VZ52 - hope it is not a problem if I keep posting these other websites. This one is supposed to list a source for commercial brass for the 7.62X45 - that would be good news, eh? Go to :http://mauser98.com/vz52.html and have a look.
I'll keep checking and see if I can come up with something concrete. Again, I apologize if it is a no go.

Good site, Trapper!

The vz-52 Rifle Page

I enjoy reloading ...... but cheap mil. surplus ammo would be SO much better! Even if corrosive.