Top court: B.C. aboriginals can hunt at night

Canoe News
December 21, 2006
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/12/21/2914298-cp.html

OTTAWA (CP) - The Supreme Court of Canada has upheld a claim by two aboriginal men from British Columbia that they have a treaty right to hunt deer at night with lights.

In a 4-3 decision, the court overturned the convictions of Ivan Morris and Carl Olsen on charges of violating the B.C. Wildlife Act.

The men, members of the Tsartlip Indian Band on Vancouver Island, were apprehended after firing at a decoy deer set up by conservation officers to trap people hunting illegally after dusk with the aid of lights.

The men claimed they had a right, under a treaty dating from the 1850s, to hunt at night. They lost at trial, where the judge concluded the practice is inherently dangerous, and thus not protected by treaty.

The majority of the sharply divided Supreme Court concluded the B.C. law was overly broad, and that aboriginal night hunting shouldn't necessarily be banned under all circumstances and in all areas of the province.

The minority vigorously disagreed, saying the courts have repeatedly found night hunting to be a danger, and the 1850s treaty was never meant to permit dangerous activities.

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It's an insult to anyone with intelligence. There were no lights when the treaty was signed. The natives obviously didn't use spotlights in traditional hunting-although they may have hunted at night. If so they should hunt at night now with no lights. I can only imagine how many animals are lost after they are shot and wander away in the dark.

It's a disgrace

the chef

My two cents,

with due respect to all Native People.
I have no problem for them to hunt for meat out of season as long as they used all weapons manufactured prior that treaty date, either muzzle loader or bow and arrow.
WHen I see them killing animals with high power rifle after hunting season closes, make my blood boil and is called poaching.

I do not want to stir sh!t, this only my two cents, and I believe all man shall be equal in this great nation.

I have no issue with night hunting with or with out a light by native hunters for food. Non native raccoon hunters here do it all the time for sport.

What is strange is that the courts saying that night hunting is dangerous. What is their evidence??? Lots of night hunting going on around the world. Also, lots of non native hunters hunt illegally at night with lights without dangerous incident.

That game is lost because of night hunting is without evidence I believe. Just go raccoon hunting at nigh if you what to will see.

Is this decision right? Absolutly not. But quite typical of the decisions out of the Supreme court. The only positive I can see is that they were not in unanumus (sp) decision on this one.

I hate to say it but, too bad the antis don't go after an issue like this instead of bothering those of us that are hunting resonsibly.

I cannot see the logic of this decision one bit. Not only is it unsafe, but kind of like shooting fish in a barrel.

Exit I'm not attacking your position but.... If you shoot a deer and it runs a hundred yards in pitch blackness the chances of losing it are a heck of a lot higher than in broad daylight.

the chef

Exit 31
I think it is dangerous because the people involved were not set up with a night light in a blind per say, but driving down the road and stopped and shot when they saw the deer. No way they could have known what was behind the deer when they were shooting.

No special rights for natives! Do we have equal rights or not?
regards
Dan

As in the United States, a lot of dumb decisions are made by people in Canada that don't have a clue!

Of course its ridiculous! It demonstrates that a supreme court appointment is a political one and is most certainly not based on intelligence. At some point we as Canadians are going to have to say "NO MORE" to native issues or we will all be headed back to Europe on the boat!

Anglos have never fully understood the meaning of conquest. We have the same crap here. The Indians have sovereign nations. But they can't print money, can't start wars, can't raise army's, can't tax the public. What they can do, with the aid and complicity of the courts, is screw the white man. In Arizona they are literally stealing our water, and our wildlife; raping the poor and misguided with gambling casinos; and participating in local as well as national elections. Same shit goes on in Alaska.

no night hunting.

It's not just you.

The fact that this was a 5-4 decision says that common sense isn't quite dead, it just doesn't apply to over half of the Liberal appointed supreme court.
They may have the right to hunt at night, but it seems to me there is a provision in the Criminal code stating that you can't discharge a firearm at night. Be interesting to see how that works into the equation.
Grizz
Grizz

It's way past time for the "native north american" BS to stop! Yes, we stole their land. Get over it! If you can't live by the rules for the rest of the citizens get out!

The minority decision of "public safety first" seem to me the "liberal" view. This crew will try to get your guns for "public safety first".

Fireing from a road in day time or night time does not seem especially dangerous to me? if it is not in the subs of course.
I mean it is done all the time, legally and illegally with no incident everywhere in Canada by non natives. What gives?

The idea that everyone is equal or must conform to one group's laws or the majority's laws, is it not a socialist-liberal ideal or fascist if a conservative idea? Regardless of isms it does not comform to the reality out here.

Natives have the right to hunt wildlife 24 -7 according to what they deem fit. Should their hunting be compared to the english style gentlemen sport hunting activity and the its regulations? I don't think so.

I have had the privilege of knowing many canadain hunters who are from different cultural backgrounds. Within the group decending from the northern european folks their is a lot of difference how hunting is practiced and what is deemed ethical regardless of how the laws are written. For one what is regular sexual activity is pornography to the other, so to speak.

For example deer are run with trucks on the praries, with dogs in the maritimes, some hunters teach their children to hunt with a llight like their dads did and so on.... Hunting by driveing the roads is not that uncommon by all groups.

Wrong? for some yes.... But so is shooting an impala at a water hole, for some...

Live and let live...is my conservative opinion on the subject. Natives don't hold a candle to the ethical reasonings and hunting mysteries of other non native canadains. Just one caviet, resourse management...for all groups.

For some of all groups making hay when there is hay is a hard thing to buck.

Interesting that this has been a problem in Alta and Sask that was rectified the past ten years or so by both provinces, both passed provincial legislation making it illegal to discharge a firearm at night. Both have withstood the test of challenges in court. I would have to agree as well that it is inherintly dangerous to discharge a large rifle at night. I have personally been to several houses with bullet holes going through one side to the other. Ask the people in the houses how dangerous they thought it was when they are laying in bed and a bullet goes through the bedroom wall. Decisions from the supreme court tend to be bad, but one has to read the whole decision to understand it, in this case they are saying the law against night hunting is to broad, this does not stop BC from changing its current laws to better reflect what the supreme court says.
Either way no one has to shoot wildlife at night in Canada to survive, go cash another welfare check and buy it, much cheaper than the truck, guns, ammo and large light, plus the gas at a buck a litre to go shoot meat. Lets hope the BC people figure this one out soon.

Long live the native peoples,no one better knows what is going on with the wildlife than the natives.They should hunt at night if they want to,but not where it is dangerous of an accident occuring.We have alot to learn from them,as we have lost understanding of our roles in the biosphere.When I was caribou hunting I spoke with a native and was really impressed with respect and substance they have.

Shootaway,

you trying to say, let have two systems in one, let make one equal and other more equal.

What is native?
If I was born in Poland and live there and newcomer comes from Quebec, he should only drive on the roads between 8-4pm, and only between Mon-Fri right?

Either we all equal or not, and I do not care if some native people know better about wildlife, then me. I still haven't read any book written by native about hunting.
For me, native Canadians are same like everyone in this country and they should abide with all laws. I do not believe in distinctive societies and groups.
Do you?

Greetings

PeterPan,I thought because wild living has been a style of life to them for so long that they should have a right to special privlidges concerning hunting.I didn't feel it was to much of a burden on the rest of the population if this was granted.I am opposed to other native activities such as gambling,retailing,etc that give them unfair advantages over the rest of the population.

Im going to pretend i dint't read some of your post,
I am native though i hunt with a licence i apply for LEH just like you
Some people deffinetly abuse the system but for people to slam my(our) rights to hunt out of season, shoot a cow moose for meat is pure B.S
I have shot several moose out of season for my elders back on the reservation whom are very poor(not because they spent their money on booze or drugs) if anyone wants to argue about it can p.m me
do i hunt at night? no
have i hunted out of season? yes
will i again? You bet

I support the First Nations peoples right to hunt.As for them to hunt in traditional ways, it is their choice.I heard one fellow say that he would be happy to use a traditional bow if all the white people moved back to europe.I thought this a point well made.
I do not support anyone hunting at night.It does not ensure fair chase to the game,it is very unsafe,and it does not ensure equal opportunity. I dont care what color your skin is,night hunting should not be.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Long live the native peoples,no one better knows what is going on with the wildlife than the natives.They should hunt at night if they want to,but not where it is dangerous of an accident occuring.We have alot to learn from them,as we have lost understanding of our roles in the biosphere.When I was caribou hunting I spoke with a native and was really impressed with respect and substance they have.

Such a view ignores the fact that many natives are city dwellers who have less connection to the land than many others of non native ancestry.

The treaties do give the natives the option to hunt all year but the question of night hunting involves safety issues as well.

As for native hunting rights I was quite interested a few years ago when hunting near a large reserve in Sask. The local First Nation Council had a quota system in place to ensure a sustainable harvest. They issued authorisation on reserve land as well as a near by park which was open to limited entry hunting by non native provincial residents. What was throwing a wrench into this were the dozens of natives that came from hundreds of miles away to partake in their " right" to hunt without any consideration to provincial regulations, harvest limits or any concern for the local bands quotas.

W/

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
What gives one group of people the right to hunt without restriction and others not?

The fact that their ancesters did?

Really ????

Then is it because they crept from under the rock of prehistory later than others?

If so all of us have that right because many many moons ago all men were hunters, yes all of us, at least that is before man became a farmer and by necessity for survival had to root around the soil for his food like a hog.

By the same token if I can by way of oral
recollection prove that my ancestors too hunted then I too should have that right?

Or better that my ancestors were warriors and conquers that I have the right to further persue that vocation without limitation.

I do not want to start another contest where we attack each other. It is pointless, we are all here because we like to hunt and we enjoy spending time in our beautiful outdoors.
I believe it is truth that the real native people living outdoors know more then us, who are passionate about hunting and living in smaller or bigger towns and cities. However I have a one problem, and I never understand why one group of people has more rights then other, and more I live in this beautiful country more I see more groups are lining up to get more recognition then others???
This is, in my opinion, against principals of Charters of Freedom and what our forefathers stood for.
The only special privleadges I see can be granted is to people who are disable and can not function in way most of us do.
As for Indians, God Bless them, but for me they are same like us, and see not need to give that group special accommodation, same like Metis or others.

Yes, I do agree with Alf, he got the point, we all at one point were hunters and we all in one point had to hunt to survive. Do Native People need to hunt to survive? Or they just do it, because they can.

As we hear about good stories, where some gather meat for older folks, I also hear horror stories and always ask myself why, why we are not equal.

Greetings to all

Hunting at night in any populated area is dangerous the so called hunters are looking for game, and most people don't know exactly were they are when they are driving in the dark around areas that game is going to be found ie; fields, meadows etc. even if you know the area you become disoriented in the darkness.It has been my experience that most of these morons are looking for antlers and not for meat.My buddy is a taxidermist and he has these guys coming in to have some of the heads mounted and they laugh about the fact that the white man can't hunt at night like they can.One guy brought an elk in that still had the front quarters in tact to make sure he had enough cape.And he did not want the meat.This is sustanice hunting in Canada today.

I little cognac to keep the blood from freezing and a walk along a trail in the bush at night carrying a 375RUM is a right no person should be denied.

My Wife and Kids have there full treaty rights. We do use them occationally for our own personal meat. Never the less, we all agree that everyone should have the same rights, whites and natives. My family is of English heritage and have been in North America for over 400 years. They hunted for there substinance while in North America and very likely in England before that. Both my wifes forfathers and my forfathers have hunted probably since the beginning. What gives one group of people any more or less rights than another group. Having different laws for different groups of people only creates predgidism. What makes anyone think that Natives know more about the land than anyone else. This is a completely false statement. We've all been on this earth and hunted the same amount of time. Just my 2 cents worth.

quote:

What gives one group of people any more or less rights than another group.

Politics and the wave of history. Every "group" of people say this of another group. With politics on your side, with a few cards ot deal, you can influence law.

Just look at colonial powers in history. No truer statement can be made. What gives these single groups, these brits, these french, these americans, any more rights than another group. Politics!

What gives american indians seemingly more rights than say Sir Wilfred Laurier had? Politics. Canadian indians played the hand they had when confronted by the maul of British imperial might. They got to treaty and politic that they could hunt on their the land the way they saw fit and were given reservations. The british got to get the resources they saw fit to possess and were given many, many cemeteries for their generations in the new world.

Politics. Politics. Politics. Now get over it!