We just got back from an incredible adventure in the Yukon with North Curl Outfitters. Vanessa took a stud of a 10 year old Dall sheep with her trusty 6.5 Creedmoor. While I've seen a lot of the Yukon, this was my first time in this region and I really enjoyed the terrain and the incredible diversity of flora and fauna.

Beautiful Longing back to Yukon. Thankfully I will be back in August next year

Nice! Congrats on a beautiful ram

The view is stunning , Congratulations that sheep is a real Beauty.

Great job Vanessa!! Those rams all have a similar shape to their curl that I did not notice on the NWT ones....they almost flatten out at the bottom of the jaw. Yours looks very long and heavy bases. Well done and hanks for the report.

wonderful sheep.

a shame it is certainly the end of the hunt in that area ...

few tags given by draw for the local/residents none published for the outfitter.

i predict the end soon.

Congratulations.
Wonderful sheep, great photos.
Thanks for sharing.

The Norwegian, with who and for what?

Medved, sad to hear. Hope it will not be the outcome for the rest of Yukon.

congratulations beautiful looking country

quote:

Originally posted by medved:
wonderful sheep.

a shame it is certainly the end of the hunt in that area ...

few tags given by draw for the local/residents none published for the outfitter.

i predict the end soon.

This area is the only area in the Yukon where the outfitter is on quota for sheep and those numbers are available if you ask. I think you'd be surprised just how low they are. Considering the number of sheep we saw, the fact that the outfitter does not hunt the areas routinely hunted by residents and the outfitter quota is quite low in the resident draw areas, I predict quite a bright future for the area...for both resident and outfitter. This area may quite well become the model for the rest of the Yukon, especially with the low ram numbers many are now seeing in much of the northern Yukon. Just to ease your mind, we hunted a non-draw/quote area. You could hunt there every year yourself.

Tj,

this is the first year they are operating there and for a while no hunting was done for non residents ... this hunting area was crucial for conservation so we ll see in the future.

they cut and put most of this area by draw two years ago.

i wish you are right but i doubt as you tell about the northern yukon.

if you look the results of who is hunting sheep in Yukon you ll see that non residents are taking most of them.

yes if you have the time the area is reachable but most here when they got one sheep already in their life focus on different game and mostly for meat ... except of course the members of the secret sheep society ...

The area was outfitted in up until 18 years ago when the government took it away from the old outfitter for apparent game violations. He sued the government and unfortunately died before the law suit was settled but his family won the suit and then got the area back and put it up for sale. Mac bought it in 2013 and took one ram out of it and now is operating full time this year. While the fringes of the area are quite accessible to residents, the lack of lakes to land on makes the vast majority of the area very tough to access, other than by horseback.

The outfitter only has a one or two ram quota in many of the sub zones and he is hunting rams that the residents will never see due to their remote nature. The southern Yukon definitely did not take the hit the northern part did and sheep populations are very healthy and I seriously doubt that the very limited harvest in this region has any impact on sheep populations. There are some very knowledgeable and helpful people in your game department that are more than willing to share all this info for those interested in learning about it. As I say, I suspect this area will be the model for many other areas in the future. They are being very conservative right now with the harvest to ensure they get it right for the future. I'd rate this one of the best Dall sheep areas in North America right now.

Sheephunterab,
Thank you for the information.

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:
The area was outfitted in up until 18 years ago when the government took it away from the old outfitter for apparent game violations. He sued the government and unfortunately died before the law suit was settled but his family won the suit and then got the area back and put it up for sale. Mac bought it in 2013 and took one ram out of it and now is operating full time this year. While the fringes of the area are quite accessible to residents, the lack of lakes to land on makes the vast majority of the area very tough to access, other than by horseback.

The outfitter only has a one or two ram quota in many of the sub zones and he is hunting rams that the residents will never see due to their remote nature. The southern Yukon definitely did not take the hit the northern part did and sheep populations are very healthy and I seriously doubt that the very limited harvest in this region has any impact on sheep populations. There are some very knowledgeable and helpful people in your game department that are more than willing to share all this info for those interested in learning about it. As I say, I suspect this area will be the model for many other areas in the future. They are being very conservative right now with the harvest to ensure they get it right for the future. I'd rate this one of the best Dall sheep areas in North America right now.

contacted the Env office and ill report what they will tell me.

your advice maybe, well we ll see it very soon TJ as you know it didnt need a lot to plumet animals especially over here i wish you are right but i doubt ....

I don't know where you are getting your information, but Northcurl Outfitters has 8 permits in the resident draw areas and unlimited permits over the vast majority of their area. From the pictures on your report you were hunting in the unlimited permit area. There are unlimited permits on the east side of the Yukon River as well. This does not speak to how many sheep there are in the area, but the pathetic management practices of our Dept. In addition, unlike B.C. or Alberta there is NO incentive for Outfitters to harvest old rams, just legal. The fact that you show a picture of three older rams demonstrates that Yukon resident hunters did not over harvest the area while they were the only harvesters for the past 18 years! Let's hope the Outfitter can say the same in a few years. This is one of the MOST accessible areas in the Yukon!

Glad you enjoyed your hunt, it is lovely country. And you are right, it is on of the best Dall areas,

quote:

right now

. And thats the salient point, right now.
I honestly can't believe that our Gov allowed this area to be put back into outfitting use after 14 years of resident only. They should have bought out the Klaas's family. A precedent was set when the gov bought out the Callisons who had the area south of this.
Regardless, you have stated some erroneous information.
Northcurl has 13 sub zones in their concession in GM7.
3 of these areas are closed to all hunting, 5 of these areas are open with no quotas for him, and 5 are on quota for residents and the outfitter, with the outfitter getting 2 per area, with the exception of 7-21, which has no data. Not sure where you got your info from. Essentially, Mac Watson can take as many Sheep from his concession as he can. Is this sustainable? There is a question. We locals used to enjoy this area, as we had no outfitter competition, which is the only GM in the Yukon in which we had this. Why couldn't residents have gotten those sheep quotas that Northcurl received?
And I'm not sure how you define "remote". Drop me anywhere in this concession, and I will be at a roadhead in 12-14 hours hiking. The area you hunted appears to be 7-17, I have hunted most of that area with less than 5 hours hiking from a float plane drop off.
If this area is to remain viable for resident hunters to enjoy for years to come, the gov absolutely MUST buy Northcurl out and reverse this colossal blunder.

thank you Jim and Yukon Mountaineer to bring up my fear with more details ...

I'm not sure what I said that was erroneous Yukon Mountaineer.

I definitely understand the outfitter/resident conflicts but from what I've seen, Mac is going out of his way to avoid hunting any areas that see routine resident hunting, including not hunting some of the more accessible sub zones at all.

Sure he can take as many sheep as he likes from his open sub zones, the same as every other outfitter in the Yukon but the big difference with his area is that he is on quota in many sub zones.

Erroneous? Where do you want me to star?
1 or 2 in many of the sub zones? Thats 2 in only 5 of them. The rest are wide open.
And as I said, I don't know where you get the idea its remote where is was hammering them this fall. Thats giving people the idea that it sees no residents. Wrong.
Mac is going out of his way alright, going out of his way to hammering that area. I have heard how many he took out of the Trout lake area, and its not going to reflect well on him at all.
Don't worry though, we residents will do what it takes politically to get the outfitter out of there.

All other sub zones are wide open for sheep in the Yukon too where outfitters exist......I don't really see your point. He's the only one limited by quota in some sub zones. It was just an FYI. He's not even hunting some areas because they are frequented by residents.

From what I've seen Mac has a very long-term plan for the area that includes maintaining trophy quality so I seriously doubt he's hammering it. You might want to check your sources on the Trout Lake rumour....lol

I never indicated that the area saw no residents...it sees a fair number. Mac is just going out of his way to avoid the areas frequented by residents. It's a huge area with some very difficult access in parts....from what we saw that's the areas he's hunting....despite what you've "heard".

Outfitter/resident conflicts exist all over Canada and I get that and if at some point the government feels it should be a resident-only area, I'm sure they will compensate Mac fairly for it. Until then, it's a great area for the visiting hunter to see an incredible number of sheep/rams and enjoy hunting without seeing a resident. I'd say Mac is going out of his way to co-exist very amicably with the residents while still providing his clients with a high-quality experience. He's in it for the long haul....unlike some outfitters that rape and pillage and then sell and run.

At the end of the day we had an awesome experience and that's all I was trying to convey...not get into a resident vs outfitter debate.

TJ,

you had a great experience great for you but when you described the area as the new paradise for sheep hunting for people coming from outside we the residents are telling you it s wrong and you dont want to listen.

we are all waiting the end of the season and how the sheep suffered from this new outfitting and we all talk about that.

for now i didnt get an answer for the question on the numbers taken but the season is not over yet ....

i dont think Mac desserves compensation for his future loss as he shouldnt step in .... but we ll see and we will have our voice heard for sure.

all the best.

Phil

I just know what we experienced.......

If you've got issues with outfitting in the area as a resident, that's understandable but it doesn't take away from the quality sheep and experience offered. I know you'd like to paint a bleak picture so he doesn't do well but he's already booking into 2016. It is one of the hottest new areas in North America right now for Dall sheep.

What the future holds is anyone's guess but it would costs the Yukon Government a tidy sum to buy it back from him. I can't see that happening any time soon.

It is unfortunate some of the rumours being spread.

Rumours?
TJ, you are the only one doing that.
This is all about money and your show, did you even pay for this hunt?
Question, why did Mac get out of Trophy Stone? Ask around. In it for the long haul? I bet.
Just don't even bother trying to respond, this is only about promoting your show and Mac. We are trying to preserve this area for us, the residents. The outfitters have the run of the rest of OUR Yukon, we want to have at lest one area where we aren't having to fight with them.
I'm a fifth generation Yukon hunter, and as far as I'm concerned, you aren't welcome back.
Paul

One other thing while I'm fired up.
Cost the YG a tidy sum to get it back?
Read the Yukon Wildlife Act. Outfitter licenses are renewed once a year, and do not have to be renewed. It's not THEIR area(s), which is what many of the new breed of outfitter up here seem to not grasp. It's OURS. When you have jokers like Jim Shockey and others coercing the air services to not fly locals into THEIR areas, things have gone to far.
Conservation values trump any perceived outfitter interests, and if the local politicians want to get re-elected, they will also realize that resident(read voter) rights trump outfitters.

No doubt that conflicts between outfitters and residents exist right across Canada but I'm not sure trying to smear the name of what, by all accounts, is a very responsible outfitter will accomplish much. I've known Mac since he was 11 years old and I've hunted with the Watson family on many occasions and can attest to the fact they are good people. We had a great hunt and my only reason for posting that was to share our experience with the members of this site. I'll leave the Yukon politics to you and others that reside there. I hope you get some satisfaction and find an equitable solution for all but sadly the voice of 200 sheep hunters, many with ties to outfitting, is not all that loud in the ears of politicians but I admire your passion. There's an old adage about not hating the players but hating the game that is likely well heeded here.

up to now and seems i wasnt the only one asking for quota, the quota information wont be released until Mac is approving the release of that information and YG as to find out if this information can be given to the public ....

yes up to now this is clear as mud ...

quote:

Originally posted by medved:
up to now and seems i wasnt the only one asking for quota, the quota information wont be released until Mac is approving the release of that information and YG as to find out if this information can be given to the public ....

yes up to now this is clear as mud ...

I could be wrong but my understanding is that he has given that permission quite some time ago. Sounds like it's in the hands of the Government now. Information like that should be public knowledge IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:
up to now and seems i wasnt the only one asking for quota, the quota information wont be released until Mac is approving the release of that information and YG as to find out if this information can be given to the public ....

yes up to now this is clear as mud ...

I could be wrong but my understanding is that he has given that permission quite some time ago. Sounds like it's in the hands of the Government now. Information like that should be public knowledge IMHO.

they are still waiting for his approval, so no yet.

even when he will give and if he s giving it not sure if YG will release ... but up to now nothing received from Mac to YG office.

plus there is a commission made by and for the outfitters about quota so not sure if they want the public and that is including the local hunters be aware of the situation...

more pressure to come soon for sure.

Congratulations!
Great photos too
Thanks for sharing

Sign me up! Those are fine sheep. I am not sure about the conflicts with locals but I suspect the area is plenty big enough to accommodate anyone and everyone.

Thought I would breathe some new life into this post with this news story just out today:
From the Whitehorse Star article
http://www.whitehorsestar.com/...unauthorized-hunting
This is the outfitter and area TJ has posted about. Wonder who the hunters were??

"A B.C. man who works in the Yukon as an outfitter was fined $11,500 last week for violations of the territory’s Wildlife Act. James “Mac” Watson pleaded guilty April 7 to hunting when not permitted and providing a guide for a big-game hunt when not authorized to do so. The offences took place during two sheep hunts in mid-August 2014 near Primrose Mountain, which is in the territory’s game management zone 7-23. The hunts saw two sheep harvested by non-residents."

quote:

Originally posted by Yukon Mountaineer:
Thought I would breathe some new life into this post with this news story just out today:
From the Whitehorse Star article
http://www.whitehorsestar.com/...unauthorized-hunting
This is the outfitter and area TJ has posted about. Wonder who the hunters were??

"A B.C. man who works in the Yukon as an outfitter was fined $11,500 last week for violations of the territory’s Wildlife Act. James “Mac” Watson pleaded guilty April 7 to hunting when not permitted and providing a guide for a big-game hunt when not authorized to do so. The offences took place during two sheep hunts in mid-August 2014 near Primrose Mountain, which is in the territory’s game management zone 7-23. The hunts saw two sheep harvested by non-residents."

hey.

i went this afternoon to the courthouse to get the public information and yes what a shock.

it is even a better sheep paradise where you go hunting where you have no rights ....

all the money will go on TIPS 5000 + 5000 plus two times 750 ...

the hunters were not mentionned at it seems that the COs received a TIP not what the article is saying but what i ve seen in the court papers ... again available to the public so no breech on any ban to publish information ...

Reading through the article, it seems pretty strange that they could have confused 7-23 and 7-25, given that the low valley of Rose creek is the natural border between the two....

that map will you get the information on the two zones.

as indicated there is no way you can be confused on the sub zones ...

http://www.environmentyukon.ca...s/view/zoom/3/17/440

quote:

Originally posted by Yukon Mountaineer:
Reading through the article, it seems pretty strange that they could have confused 7-23 and 7-25, given that the low valley of Rose creek is the natural border between the two....

sent you a pm.

Phil

quote:

I definitely understand the outfitter/resident conflicts but from what I've seen, Mac is going out of his way to avoid hunting any areas that see routine resident hunting, including not hunting some of the more accessible sub zones at all.

“This particular area is a very important subzone to resident sheep hunters, so to avoid conflict between resident sheep hunters and the outfitters, we restrict the outfitter from hunting in that zone until Sept. 1,” Hennings said.

Help me understand?

quote:

Originally posted by Alfonz:

quote:

I definitely understand the outfitter/resident conflicts but from what I've seen, Mac is going out of his way to avoid hunting any areas that see routine resident hunting, including not hunting some of the more accessible sub zones at all.

“This particular area is a very important subzone to resident sheep hunters, so to avoid conflict between resident sheep hunters and the outfitters, we restrict the outfitter from hunting in that zone until Sept. 1,” Hennings said.

Help me understand?

when you are drawn for sheep on those areas and you re going before the 1st of september there is no chance of legally see any outfitter guide or non resident hunting there ..

Wow, sure hear a lot more about this kind of stuff lately. Kind of taints the success of the hunters that have used this outfitters services. It would be horrible to hire an outfitter, and then find out that your hunt was not legal.

quote:

Originally posted by Yukon Mountaineer:
Thought I would breathe some new life into this post with this news story just out today:
From the Whitehorse Star article
http://www.whitehorsestar.com/...unauthorized-hunting
This is the outfitter and area TJ has posted about. Wonder who the hunters were??

"A B.C. man who works in the Yukon as an outfitter was fined $11,500 last week for violations of the territory’s Wildlife Act. James “Mac” Watson pleaded guilty April 7 to hunting when not permitted and providing a guide for a big-game hunt when not authorized to do so. The offences took place during two sheep hunts in mid-August 2014 near Primrose Mountain, which is in the territory’s game management zone 7-23. The hunts saw two sheep harvested by non-residents."

Yes would be interested if they were the hunters.
I don't see it mentioned any where but are the hunters allowed to keep these 2 sheep, if so not much of a penalty.

sheephunter, great photos and congratulations. Looks like it was a great experience. Beautiful country to be sure.
How many days was your and was that tent your home away from home for the whole thing?

quote:

Originally posted by sage:

quote:

Originally posted by Yukon Mountaineer:
Thought I would breathe some new life into this post with this news story just out today:
From the Whitehorse Star article
http://www.whitehorsestar.com/...unauthorized-hunting
This is the outfitter and area TJ has posted about. Wonder who the hunters were??

"A B.C. man who works in the Yukon as an outfitter was fined $11,500 last week for violations of the territory’s Wildlife Act. James “Mac” Watson pleaded guilty April 7 to hunting when not permitted and providing a guide for a big-game hunt when not authorized to do so. The offences took place during two sheep hunts in mid-August 2014 near Primrose Mountain, which is in the territory’s game management zone 7-23. The hunts saw two sheep harvested by non-residents."

Yes would be interested if they were the hunters.
I don't see it mentioned any where but are the hunters allowed to keep these 2 sheep, if so not much of a penalty.

Yes it would be seeing how in the one picture the tag is being cut in August slot