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Did a two week hiking trip in Kluane back in 89 out of Haines Junction.We didn't see a single person the whole time.I saw sheep on the slopes on many ocasions but never anything with big horns or horns at all.Just once in the begining of the trip when we were up very high something above me caught my attention.With the help of the binocs I could see a a ram leaning over a rock,peeking down at me.It must of been 500m from were I was.At that time and still I don't know much about rams having never hunted them,but I knew that what I was looking at was really beautifull.He had a full elegant curl,much prettier than anyone I had seen in a picture. | |||
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This is another step in the socialist-racist agenda of the Liberal Party of Canada, exactly what I have been expecting for some years. The rich foreigners, the Guide/Outfitters and the Injuns will hunt and we ordinary Canadians can pay our taxes and watch this travesty happen. The Provincial Parks esteblished in B.C. by the Harcourt-N.D.P. administration will be next, the Muskwa-Kechika being the first area where the Injuns will control the hunting. They already were given Lynn Ross's old territory when he retired; this by action of the N.D.P. against the wishes and advice of the local residents. I think that the time is fast approaching when we Canucks are going to have to fight for our birthrights, or lose them. If, Injuns hunt, they should be restricted to the use of Neolithic technology, period, they did not invent guns, vehicles, quads, radios and since they demand special access to wildlife, they should not be allowed to use our technology. If, they start further blockades and/or violence, as they have done, then the Canadian Forces should deal with it, with extreme force. | |||
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"Our technology". Exactly what did you help invent? I say shoot the guy that invented quads. Try bringing her back to a full cocked position before you touch it off again. Your agenda sounds a little racist. On a positive note Canada is a wonderful country. I keep feeling it is the way the U. S. used to be. I might go there to retire one day. I feel like it's my birthright, or something. | |||
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Canada is now and has always been a country that is, in most respects, superior to the USA; our peaceful evolution as the most successful democracy on Earth demonstrates this.One of the most obvious aspects of this is the pampered way in which Injuns have been treated, throughout Canadian history. This is in marked contrast to the savage slaughter of these peoples south of the 49th and is why, Sitting Bull, as well as a great many "slaves" sought refuge here, from ...the way the United States used to be... Foreigners, retirees or otherwise, have absolutely NO right to enter Canada, unless we Canucks invite them here. Given that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit and we only want new immigrants of good quality, you are not likely to meet our criteria. | |||
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That's good keep all the Paki's, East Indians, and Chinese, and Russians that your letting pour into your country north of the 51st parallel. When they drain your banks and vote you into learning their language then you can tell me how great Canada is. Oh wait that is already happening! Applied for a goverment job in BC lately? | |||
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Kensco, It is the Indians in Canada that are racist! Like kutenay, I am getting a little sick of the racism from Indians. Daryl | |||
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Quote: Blue, So what is your point. You got something to add about the Indians selling hunts in Kluane????? Or are you just shoot'n your mouth off. Only a year or so ago you were snivelling and whinning that you could not just come here and hunt OUR big game in Canada on your own without an outfitter or guide etc. I also recall that you did not know jack shit about how the system works here. You don't have a clue. This shit that is going on here with the Indians is going to get real serious. If they have it thier way, you will not be able to hunt here all. Daryl | |||
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Quote: DEFINITION of DEMOCRACY.. 3 wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Parlimentary representational Democracy, respecting the rights of the sheep, only 3/4s of the sheep will be consumed after the vote. AS far as Canadian "superiority" if it wasn't for the decadent, horrible, unpeaceful-like manners of the citizens of the United States, the rest of the world would be speaking German or Japanese by now. Our "attitude" is why we cast off the British rule way back when. We can be very civilized, but we refrain from becoming pussified. I love Canada. I spent every full summer in Northern Ontario for many years of my life. I think the people are some of the most generous and good natured (except for some folks in Quebec) people on the planet. I think you will be much happier though when you get accepted for statehood.  | |||
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Quote: Blue, Right at the moment, I don't know what to say. I agree with some of what you have to say. I do not think you are a stupid person, but very sincerly, I really think you don't have a clue what goes on here. Indians here are racist. IMO the Indians have never had it so good. It is not good enough. They are still racist towards Whites. From your past posts on this forum I know you are the type that would really enjoy this part of the country. If you lived here, you would also experience the racism. It was bad enough that you were not happy that you could not hunt in Canada on your own.(without an outfitter or guide). I could not imagine what you would be like if you faced the racism that we are facing here. When I have more time I could post some articles from the local news papers to enlighten you if you would like. Daryl | |||
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Blue, I agree alot on how you see things but I don't think you are seeing the whole picture. There are some details that you are possibly missing. I have to run right now but I will fill you in on some of the details later this evening. Daryl | |||
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To return to the original topic, which is the "hunting" of rare animals in a Canadian National Park by foreign hunters when CANADIANS are not allowed to do so, most of the posts are missing the point. This is, IMHO, should we CANADIANS allow this to go on and, secondly, should we allow ANY identifiable group, based on race, creed, length of family history in Canada, wealth or pollitical affiliation, to have greater rights than any other??? I am now absolutely opposed to ANY person who is not a Canadian or a naturalized citizen of Canada being allowed to hunt or fish in this country. I want to see a scientifically managed approach to resource use and think that resources should be shared among ALL Canadians, equally. The situation involving the increasing racism by Injuns toward other peoples is going to end in violence, that's quite obvious to those of us who live here. I think that firm, decisive action now, in respect of making sure that EVERYONE obeys the law is both a prudent and a humane method of preventing potential bloodshed. That is the gist of my opinions, based on decades involved in natural resource management in western Canada. Any bullshit about racism, Indian rights, the USA winning some war...Vietnam, Korea??, or foreigners having some "right" to hunt anywhere here is irrelevant. Yukoner and I and other Canucks live here and KNOW what is going on; it is our country and both our right and responsibility to deal with this aberration of social justice. These kinds of comments are simply an encouragement to me and many others who are going to stop all foreign hunting in B.C. and probably the Yukon, as well. | |||
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Kutenay, can you tell what we should do as ordinary Canadians? I've been sending letters to MPs and others politicians and you know, they don't give damn. I always get response, with promise that we gonna study the problem and shiiit happens. Politicans care only to be elected. Best one are the independent one, but they mean nothing in Parliament. I live in Ontario, whre majority votes Liberal, but I always vote Reform or CP and again, we don't have enough votes, we always come short. Don't you thin that this is our destiny to make this country a place to all scumback of this earth, dont you think that 'they' think that people like you and me belong in museum? I wanna do something, but what? Greetings, Peter | |||
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Quote: Thanks  Frans Permanent resident of Canada as of November 9th, 2002 | |||
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Blue If natives had there way you wouldn't be able to hunt at all,not just on there land.In the opinion of most local natives you shouldn't really have the right to hunt at all. Opening up Kluane for the financial gain of the band is total bullshit,and goes against what natives have been preaching for decades,"the land belongs to mother earth not for financial gain" or some bullshit like that!What's next shooting swans or killing parigan falcons because the band needs more financial resources?It really is all about cash.As Yukoners we are losing hunting territory everyday because of political crap with natives,We have lakes that are 35 miles long that only have 2-3 boats on them a weekend,we now can't harvest fish from because some bands feel there is to much pressure on them, while they harvest fish by the hundreds!.We are not controlled by the gov't we are under the control of the political will of natives.Live here for any more than a year and you will see. | |||
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The difference between the guides that the belong to the association and the natives is the guides contribute to country through their tax dollars,natives don't pay tax.These problems are indeed everywhere.Maybe to be more equal to natives we must act more like them,we should go bolckaid a road and make a point. I work with natives every day and alot of them are great,but they have it great,hunt and fish any time-anything they want,eyecare,dental,the best medical equiptment coverage in the world,and never pay tax! what's the down side. As you stated we all have these problems and always will!! | |||
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Any system that gives more rights to one group of individuals is racist. Unfortunately, the natives in Canada have more rights than ohter Canadians. This is racist, regardless of whether or not my native firneds agree with it. And it is not just hunting or fishing, eihter. I'll get back to you about the Kluane,whichis what this thread is all about..  | |||
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Blue, In BC the natives are claiming the whole province (Actually all the individual bands land claims put together add up to more land than the total of the land mass of BC) is their jurisdiction and birthright and with our laws they legally can and are doing so. Basically they have the legal right to lawfully claim the entire province as their own and if successful who knows what would happen to the people who built the province and its present infastructure. Maybe you could make room for us in Minnesota when they kick us out.  | |||
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Quote: Blue we do allow them to make money from their tribal lands. They have their casinoes. They get free housing, free pre and post secondary education, medical, dental, gov't grants to set up their own businesses,etc, etc., and they don't pay any tax after all that. They get preferential treatment through gov't hiring practices and force private companies off reserve to hire them ahead of more qualified persons. There are many who take advantage of these benefits and are extremely successful, unfortunatly the majority are not interested in doing much of anything but collecting welfare and handouts and live in their free house we build them and not maintain it. They can take a brandnew house and turn it into a total write off in months, then complain about how we treat them. When the Pope toured Canada he went to a reserve and the press took pictures of a poor old bedragled indian woman and showed the house she lived in, no running water, heat or electricity, ( it used to have these things but they managed to destroy them) what the press didn't show was the brand new house with all the conveniences we taxpayers had built her across the street that she refused to move to for whatever reason. This is the mentality that pervades a good portion of their society. The natives who actually take advantage of what we offer them do extremely well and I wish my family had half the opportunities they are given for free. A lot of these natives wont leave these reserves for work or education but I see a hell of a lot of them who have no problem leaving so they can live on the streets of our big cities as panhandlers and drunks and drug addicts, when they could go back to the reserve and get a new house. How do you deal with people like that?? If you considered what our native population in Canada is and how much the Gov't Aboriginal Affairs department budget for them is, it would boggle the mind. It costs the taxpayer something like $60,000 for each individual native every year. The thing is Blue, is that they have to get off their asses and take advantage of it, it's out there waiting for them to take it and nobody is stopping them but themselves. We urge them to take advantage and hire career and guidance councillors to arrange whatever they want, yet they walk away from it. | |||
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This is the Whiteman's fault, as is every single problem on Earth, ask any left-lib "expert", such as Lawyers, Cultural Anthropologists, Women's Studies Instructors and other such parasites. We destroyed the Injun's superior "culture" where they lived in total, peaceful harmony with each other and NATURE....yeah, sure. The fact is that Injuns discriminate against each other, cannot agree on the boundaries of their ludicrous land claims and are among the most racist peoples on the planet, but, it's ALL "Whitey's" fault. This particular incident is the final straw for me, I have NO more sympathy for Injuns, fuck 'em all! There are 978,000 status Injuns in Canada at present and many of those actually have more European blood than they do Aboriginal blood; the current expenditure on them in tax dollars per annum is in excess of $11,000,000,000. We should stop ALL funding for Injuns forthwith, if, they start the "WAR" they constantly threaten us with, WE will by God finish it! As the great Sir John. A. MacDonald once said, about the halfbreed murderer Louis Riel, " Riel wants a war, and by God we are going to give it to him" !!! Yeah, we will keep foreign hunters out of Canada and it will happen much quicker than those who think that they have some "right" to pay to kill our wildlife think it will, wait and see. The days of the easygoing, generous Canadian are over with and the "nativist" movement is growing rapidly here and I for one, will continue to work toward this goal. We Canadians have been far too giving with our natural resources and the time to stop that is now! | |||
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Thanks Oscar and kutenay. I could add some more but you guys pretty much some it up. The same thing is happening here as well. I have to say, though, there is alot of good hardworking Indians in the Yukon. Daryl | |||
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There are a lot of good, hardworking CANADIANS in every part of this country and we ALL should have EQUAL rights, period. If, I stated that since my direct family ancestors came to Canada more than 350 yrs. ago, which they did and they were from the nations-cultures that founded and built this country-which they were, I should have greater "rights" than some East Indian immigrant who got off a plane last week and is already demanding special considerations such as wearing a dagger in court, against all Canadian tradition; I would be castigated as a "racist" and a "bigot" by ignorant loudmouths here and abroad. So, why should I, or any other Canuck accept some bullshit about special rights for Injuns due to being the "first" inhabitants of this land? Canada is either "one country, my country and your country" or it is no country, merely a colony of the Yankee mega-corporations who support the governments who institute varying rights based on race. This is not done to bring about social justice, it is, along with "multiculturalism" a method to destroy traditional, egalitarian Canadian society to make us easier to dominate and thus control our resources, especially WATER. The very same people that support and brought about our current gun laws and "hate laws" which militate against free speech, for "white" people only, are behind this vile political chicanery.....and they are winning! | |||
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No wonder the Indians like it up there. Everything you said is the same thing happenning down here. Most tribal governments are very crooked if you ask me. The Natives still blame the the whites for there misfortune's when there leadership is robbing them blind. Now some tribes have taken advantage of there lands and made profits off of them. The White Mountain Apaches have soem of the best Elk hunting in the world I think they get up to 10,000 for tags and they say the waiting list is long but this is on there Reservation. Now what happens on State or Federal lands the natives really have no say. Now if they hunt off the Reservation they have to abide by all state laws but most of the time the game wardens don't mess with them cause they don't want a PR nightmare on there hands. So yes natives get alot of favortism but on the filp side look at all the profit the government has made off the originals lands in our case the lands the tribes handed over in the treaties. But one of the agreements was that they would provide free health and other stipulations. | |||
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I have been talking to few knowledgeable locals about this issue. The concensus is that there is not alot of concern about the Indians hunting in Kluane. The reason: The indians have been hunting there for a long time and still are. The nicest, largest ram I have ever seen was taken from there 2 years ago. When I mentioned the amount of money that rich hunters were willing to pay..... there was alot of laughter. Possibly the first year. Why? There are alot of variables. What kind of guides will the Indians hire?(An outfit is only as good as it's worst guide.) Where are they going to hunt? Areas that are easy to access? Areas that they have already hunted? I don't have the answers yet but I have a pretty good Idea. If someone wants to pay 200K for a sheep tag, have at it. It is not my money. Who knows? The Indians might put on a real good show. Time will tell. Daryl | |||
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I shot my mouth off about this Kluane sheep hunt mabe a little too soon. I have been told who will be guiding the hunts. Looks like the Indian band hired a local,good, second generation guide. Anouther fellow who I have worked with lives near Kluane. Apparently, this past fall he hiked up into the park and took some incredible sheep footage. I have not seen it yet, but I hear there are rams with horns that are "going a second time around." I also heard there are alot of rams with big horns. This is the way it was described to me. Interesting, I say. Wouldn't be the first time I had to take the foot out of my mouth. I still stand behind what I said earlier. All I can say is, It is sure going to be interesting. I am going to try to get this video. I think I know how I can get it.  Hey, wait a minute. I can't hunt here, $hit! What is wrong with hunting in the park? I think they should allow Limited Entery Hunting in the Park. Every Park. Daryl | |||
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I think in B.C I saw a stat that natives make up about 3% of the population but they have clout of all kinds far in excess of that. I understand that they are one of the major groups accessing our healthcare, they pay no taxes but get incredible benefits. They are one of the major groups put thru our lawsystem (costs millions anually). They have on ocasion decimated or wiped out altogether Salmon/Steelhead runs (but claim to be conservationists). Locally they are demanding/getting controll of forest resources for themselves. I guess what I'm trying to say is that here is a very real case of the tail wagging the Dog. A tiny minority taking over what they basically have little or no right to kinda defies logic. As far as first nations go yes they were here first but..... they also immigrated over the land bridge that once joined us with asia/russia so I guess that puts them in the same boat as us, we are both immigrants just at different times!  | |||
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WOW! You're quite the racist Westcoaster! You're lucky blue doesn't post here anymore, he'd straighten you out in a hurry. Kidding. Excellent points! I hear you loud and clear on this one. Historically when one nation conquers (immigrates) a less sophisticated one the end result is typically slavery, genocide or assimilation or a combination of the three. But somehow we've managed to allow ourselves to become the slaves and grant our first nation friends privileges far beyond reason and there's no undoing in sight. The more access the first nation people (FNP) get to nature and wildlife, the more they exploit it. In my experience and dealings with FNP, I've come to beleive that most have little or no interest in preserving their heritage and culture. Their main objective is to live like a lottery winner in the white world. What's to be done??? GordM | |||
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GordM Hah ya got me there!  Actually its not really racism, if your the one gettin the SHAFT!  I think your point is right on.  Locally before the avg. native fished for food and sold a little illegally on the side, he drove an avg vehicle like the rest of us slobs. Now they can sell Salmon, so they fish their asse's off and take all they can, openly defying the DFO to do anything about it. Then they sell these fish make big profits off of fish that have been raised at a local govt funded hatchery. So they now drive around in 40-60,000 dollar trucks and suv's that most of us just dream about all the while taking treaty money and welfare on top no doubt! Yeah its tuff for those poor guys eh? If you ask me they already won the loto! LOL | |||
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