quote:

I did not say that any foreigners have any right to hunt here as I do not believe that this is the case. I would extend the privilege of hunting here to the people I mentioned as I am a strong supporter of the British Commonwealth and feel a kinship with those people that I know you do not share.

Well I would sooner extend the priviledge of hunting in Canada to the Americans and any other country that is not anti gun/anti hunting like Britain and Australia.If they had their way none of us would be allowed to own guns or be able to hunt.

Some British, Aussie and Kiwi people want to ban guns, not all of them and the gun laws they( and we) currently live under actually originated in Tsarist-Bolshevik Russia, the Ukraine and Nazi Germany as well as fascist Italy and Japan. In any event, our traditions stem from Britain, not these other cultures and our chances to make the English "Bill of Rights" actually effective here are quite good; but, it is the non-British elements in our society that militate against that, (i.e.) Cukier, Chretien, Steven Lewis (Russian extraction), Ujjal Dosanjh-East Indian and the South African immigrant woman whose daughter was shot, Priscilla De Villiers (?).

Most of the British people I know are VERY pro-gun and active in various shooting/hunting organizations. The Commonwealth is also the only international organization that has any value for Canada, the U.N., NATO and NORAD are obsolete.

As to the sale of Canadian resources, China, India and other emerging economies are crying for our petro-resources and wood as well. We need to diversify our trade and the sooner the better as this is the best method to protect Canada's interests and promote peace among nations.

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it is the non-British elements in our society that militate against that, (i.e.) Cukier, Chretien, Steven Lewis (Russian extraction), Ujjal Dosanjh-East Indian and the South African immigrant woman whose daughter was shot, Priscilla De Villiers (?).

The following prime misters were in power when much of our gun controls came to be or they are currently pushing for more gun bans.Of what ancestry are they?
Clark
Turner
Mulroney
Campbell
Martin

Let's also throw in Mclellan who is the deputy p.m.

Stubble, gun control as we know it in "free societies" started in England in the 20s. It was a reaction by the ruling class in fear of the Marxist revolution in Russia and violent Marxist movements full of lower classes threatening the establishments elsewhere in Western Europe.

In spite of Kutenay's fears of the darkies, slavs and punts ruining his country, it's the English that have screwed this part up, just like in the home country. It's always the elites that try to diminish the powers of the non-elite; usually out of some sort of fear. Just like the fears expressed here.

Notice China and India are supposedly providing influences that harm his country but his greater fear is the USA? That's just messed up thinking, not factual.

...the darkies, slavs and punts... and I'M a ...bigot...???!!!

WTF is a ...punt..., I have never heard this term before, does it refer to what you Texans so tolerantly call a "wetback"........

Actually I was paraphrasing you. I guess you're above irony. I learned the word "Punt" from a Candian here in Houston. It was what he called Canadians of Indian heritage (Asian continent, not North American). Like you, he figured all that's bad in Canadian life had to have come from "other than English" cultures.

"In any event, our traditions stem from Britain, not these other cultures and our chances to make the English "Bill of Rights" actually effective here are quite good; but, it is the non-British elements in our society that militate against that, (i.e.) Cukier, Chretien, Steven Lewis (Russian extraction), Ujjal Dosanjh-East Indian and the South African immigrant woman whose daughter was shot, Priscilla De Villiers

I am almost sorry to tell you this, but, your interpretation of my remarks is both specious and a poor attempt to co-opt my thesis; I am NOT of British heritage, only one-half of my ancestry was British. You deliberately used my historically correct comments out of context because, in your characteristic ignorance, you cannot counter my point(s).

In any event, this is a CANADIAN question and you really have no interest in what we choose to do with our wildlife; you are simply unable to realize that the entire world is NOT at the beck and call of the U.S.A. Perhaps you should concern yourself with the problems in your own country and stop trying to tell we Canucks what to do in ours. You may notice that I do not lecture you Americans about how to apportion your wildlife as it's not my affair....a word to the wise.......

Anyway, the Provincial Government here in B.C. is now proposing a 71-29% split in allocation of wildlife between resident hunters and the Guide-Outfitters. This includes reserving almost half (48%) of the rare Stone's Sheep for sale to foreigners by the often foreign-owned GOABC member outfits. Would you quietly allow this level of discrimination against resident hunters if you were a B.C. resident....I doubt it.

Non-resident alien hunting in B.C. is no longer acceptable and we are GOING to stop it and very soon....no matter what it takes. That is all I have to say on this thread as I think the point is made.

This really belongs in the Political Forum so I'll do what I should have done earlier; leave you to your thoughts on the matter.

O.K., enjoyable debate and I suggest logging onto http://www.huntingbc.ca and you can get a good sense of what B.C. hunters think about our current imbroglio; I kinda suspect that you just may see my position a bit differently.

As it is, nothing is cut in stone yet and I am open to being convinced that better options than my current opinion exist. As it happens, this entire affair will be decided by the non-hunting public based largely on their perceptions of media reports.

In all honesty, I fully expect to see almost ALL hunting in B.C. reserved for Aboriginal peoples within the coming decade, this in order to buy off their land claims in a way that does not imapct on the policies of the corporate elite who run this country. I am at the age where it won't affect me much, anyway, and most people here really don't care.

Making friends again, I see, eh Koots? Take a look at the reply I got from the local liberal office in Alberta. What response did you get? You said you were going to do some lobbying. Any luck?

quote:

Originally posted by kutenay:
......

In all honesty, I fully expect to see almost ALL hunting in B.C. reserved for Aboriginal peoples within the coming decade, this in order to buy off their land claims in a way that does not imapct on the policies of the corporate elite who run this country. I am at the age where it won't affect me much, anyway, and most people here really don't care.

We agree here 100%. See my earlier post. Residents will be left out, the same as non residents. I'm with you. 10 more years is all I will see.

I hope Fishing doesn't go away also.

As long as the few who care and try to keep Canada a free, egalitarian nation based on our primarily British derived traditions of equality are frequently slagged by those who are both ignorant and often have a personal agenda, we will see increasing erosion of ALL of the activities we have held dear. My opinions on this issue may seem extreme to those whose knowledge of the situation is minimal or those who have an "axe to grind", BUT, with some 45 years experience in B.C. conservation, I have a pretty good idea of what's going on.

I am not "anti-American", that's simply a waste of energy, I am a Canadian who is concerned about his native land. The current situation is untenable and it is going to change rapidly; my desire is to protect resident sports-subsistence hunting and eliminate foreign control of our guiding industry. As to fishing, yeah, it's probably next and unless B.C. residents stand up for OUR rights, it's history.

Now, why should a B.C. resident spend time, energy and money to fight to save hunting and fishing to benefit foreign-owned businesses that actively lobby to prevent his access to and use of HIS fish, wildlife and so forth? I don't blame the Indians, I simply want to see a fair deal for we B.C.'ers. That means that something has to give and that should be non-resident uses first.

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As long as the few who care and try to keep Canada a free, egalitarian nation based on our primarily British derived traditions of equality

Wasn't it the Queen of England that gave the natives special rights in the first place?Some equality.

No, Stubbie, that is not true and the constant anti-British bigotry that you display is getting a bit tiresome. Perhaps you can enlighten us with an accurate precis of Canadian history including exact details of various treaties involving Aboriginals, the Crown and even who actually initiated "White" settlement in Canada.

The British actually made it possible for quite a number of other nationalities to come to Canada, the Ukrainians being an example. So, you may consider their historical contribution to this country to be unimportant, but, many knowledgeable Canucks would disagree with you.

Actually, the contemporary problems with "Indians" stem from a lack of treaties, not from those enacted by the British or the equitable and mutually beneficial activities between the French and the Hurons, for example. Maybe you can provide accurate, historical examples of the discrimination you seem to feel caused by the British and their largely excellent treatment of the "Indians"....have you survived a scalping, perhaps?????

So you are saying that the treaties that gave the natives special rights were not signed in the name of the English monarch?So just whose name were they signed in?

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the constant anti-British bigotry that you display is getting a bit tiresome

Actually,I am just balancing out your constant British ass kissing.

What EXACT treaties are you referring to and how exactly does this relate to the problems involved with non-resident hunting in Canada?

What's the problem, Stubbie, did someone call you a nasty ethnic name and you now hate everyone of that particular nationality? Your frequent "bashes" against the British fact in Canada are just nonsense and your knowledge of Canadian history is pretty poor.

If, you can be specific about the situation you are ranting about, I may be able to address it, but, I think that what you really want is to make negative remarks about the major founding group of this country, largely because you are not of that nationality and are jealous. So, either give an example of what you refer to or I am going to ignore you which is not how I prefer to treat my fellow Canucks.

BTW, where did YOUR ancestors come from and when???

[quote]Well I would sooner extend the priviledge of hunting in Canada to the Americans and any other country that is not anti gun/anti hunting like Britain and Australia.If they had their way none of us would be allowed to own guns or be able to hunt.

A stroke of genius Stubblejumper !
Blame the oppressed hunters from the U.K. and Australia for decisions made by our anti - gun Prime Ministers . Sounds about as logical as "buying back" licenced firearms from hunters to reduce firearm related crime when statistics have always shown that criminals don't licence their guns .
Don't stick your hand up to come hunting in Australia if you happen to lose your hunting rights before we do !

kutenay a house divide is a house ready to fall.

These people just don't want to stop sport hunting they want to stop all hunting.

Sure push the non canadian sport hunters out.

Then next unless you can prove to need for wild meet do alway with all other hunting because unless you need the meat to live it is all sport hunting.

kutenay you have a bad case of I have it, I want for myself so F--k every body else. So some day when you can't hunt anymore unless your a member of a first nation because they are the only true hunters out there. The rest of us are just johnny come latelys.

I seen it happen all over divide and conquer.

If it happens up there or down here all hunter lose.

Any one know what the Grizzly quota is (or was) in this area?
S.

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Actually, the contemporary problems with "Indians" stem from a lack of treaties,

Kutenay, Being from BC I thought that was true too, until I started working in areas with treaties. Its not. The same problems exist all across Canada in varying degrees, treaty or not. In BC the land issue for First Nation's without treaties does provide them with additional leverage in their negotiations, but the question of what exactly constitutes "Aboriginal and Treaty Rights" (and how these are being infringed upon by non-natives and government) exists everywhere. Many FN's are even currently calling into question the legality of thier original treaties.

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If, you can be specific about the situation you are ranting about, I may be able to address it,

Just to make a small point of a relatively insignificant matter...didn't you get pissy at me for saying the same thing on the general topic of forestry and logging?

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...or I am going to ignore you which is not how I prefer to treat my fellow Canucks.

Just curious, is that what you are doing to me since our last discussion?


FWIW, I am interested in your answer to Stubblejumpers question about the treaties, and our founding nation's responsiblity in same. Just for my edification really.

Also FWIW and FTR, I am not anti-Brit by any means. My family has been in Canada as long as yours (which is a LONG time by New World standards), but all but one of my predecessors (my grandmother was Belgian) came from Great Britian.

Cheers,
Canuck

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Anyway, the Provincial Government here in B.C. is now proposing a 71-29% split in allocation of wildlife between resident hunters and the Guide-Outfitters. This includes reserving almost half (48%) of the rare Stone's Sheep for sale to foreigners by the often foreign-owned GOABC member outfits. Would you quietly allow this level of discrimination against resident hunters if you were a B.C. resident....I doubt it.

Kutenay, I also have a more "on -topic" request....can you reveal your sources of this info (ie. the allocations)? Despite how you may percieve our differences of opinion (I really don't know), we are both on exactly the same side re: resident hunter rights. I have not heard these particular numbers before and want to ensure I am dialed in on this topic.

I'd ask off-line (via PM) but I have gotten the impression in the past that you don't like them.

Cheers,
Canuck

Never mind my last question...dug up the info myself.

Cheers,
Canuck

I can understand ones frustrations at not being able to access fish and game due to the pressures from non-resident hunters and fisherman. That said, I would consider going to bed with anti hunters to spite the non-res hunters as the absolute worst way to make things better for the resident hunter.

If you lie down with dogs, don't complain about the fleas!