nice country you got there.

Dewey,

So one might say that the root of the problem is increased demand for diminishing public resources.

It is the age old battle over the commons. That is not the fault of Americans, the Marines, or the boogie man. The true fault would be the policies of your elected officials

Once you recognize that truth, unpleasant as it may be,, you can get down to fixing the problem. Demagogues are not the answer, ever.

It would be so much more responsible, not to mention credible, to aim your ranting towards your lawmakers than at darn foreigners and reminiscing about the good old days. Heck, there aren't as many bison in North Dakota as there used to be. So what. We are living in 2009, not 1809. Recognize that and move on.

I would not presume to advise the citizens of BC of how best to run their affairs. As long as hunts are reasonable, legal and ethical, I will continue to hunt where I choose, thank you.

I hope you can do the same.

quote:

Originally posted by Jack D Bold:
Dewey,

So one might say that the root of the problem is increased demand for diminishing public resources.

Yes, this is a major aspect of our current situation,,obviously. However, the lobbying and other unacceptable activities of the GOABC and the big foreign bucks that fund this is also a huge factor of the problem and this is what must and WILL be changed.

I would not presume to advise the citizens of BC of how best to run their affairs. As long as hunts are legal

It seems to me, that you are attempting to do precisely that, however, I am not going to discuss this further as political debate and/or personal jabs were not my intent when I initiated this thread.

The comment about ...legal... is the crux of the matter and it seems I have been right about how to deal with this all along.

quote:

Originally posted by Jack D Bold:
Dewey,

So one might say that the root of the problem is increased demand for diminishing public resources.

It is the age old battle over the commons. That is not the fault of Americans, the Marines, or the boogie man. The true fault would be the policies of your elected officials

Once you recognize that truth, unpleasant as it may be,, you can get down to fixing the problem. Demagogues are not the answer, ever.

It would be so much more responsible, not to mention credible, to aim your ranting towards your lawmakers than at darn foreigners and reminiscing about the good old days. Heck, there aren't as many bison in North Dakota as there used to be. So what. We are living in 2009, not 1809. Recognize that and move on.

I would not presume to advise the citizens of BC of how best to run their affairs. As long as hunts are reasonable, legal and ethical, I will continue to hunt where I choose, thank you.

I hope you can do the same.

aw, come on Jack- everybody knows it's Jack O'Connor's fault, even though he has been dead for over 40 years.

JOC died from coronary failure while returning from a Hawaian vacation on a ship; this was in January, 1978. I do hope your numeracy is better when balancing your chequebook..........

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
JOC died from coronary failure while returning from a Hawaian vacation on a ship; this was in January, 1978. I do hope your numeracy is better when balancing your chequebook..........

Well looky here, Dewey has found Wikipedia........Bravo!!!

Whow, you go a away for a few days and look what happens! :-)

Back to the original question, yeah, I'd love to hunt in BC the species that I can't hunt here (unless I get extremely lucky). I can die of old age before drawing for goat, and I don't see the grizzly hunt reopen any time soon.

I'm a recent immigrant (7 years ago), so I'm staying away from the politics. I'm just happy to live and work here, and have the hunting opportunities that are available to me.

Frans

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
JOC died from coronary failure while returning from a Hawaian vacation on a ship; this was in January, 1978. I do hope your numeracy is better when balancing your chequebook..........

Only 31 years ago. then it is OBVIOUSLY HIS FAULT!!!!!

What a crock, jdollar, either you cannot read or are just spouting off bulltwaddle!

BUT, here is an actual situation involving JOC, that was among the early issues that alienated many Canadian resident hunters from him and American trophy hunters, in general.

JOC, was at his most famous and sheepists were his acolytes when he joined "Peterson's Hunting", a magazine which glorifys those who "hunt" on private ranches, use guides and seemingly never actually hunt alone or with a partner on public land.

JOC had, for decades, touted the game country of the "Smokey" River in Alberta, a CANADIAN province as being, along with the "Prophet-Muskwa" the finest game country in North America, especially for the wild sheep he loved to hunt. Now, a resource road had been built into "his" hunting country and JOC was some pizzed!

This arrogant, wealthy Yankee actually wrote that this road would allow ...slobs in pickup trucks... access to this area. The ...slobs... that the old foreigner referred to were CANADIANS in THEIR OWN COUNTRY, hunting the game that they/we OWN. Most of those I knew then who read this all-too characteristic screed were outraged and lost all respect for JOC.

The point is, that CANADIANS and ONLY CANADIANS have ANY RIGHTS here in CANADA and those foreigners who do not grasp this and behave with respect are not now and will never be welcomed here as "hunters". JOC was widely known in the sheep country of northern BC as "Freehunt O'Connor", due to his never-ending attempts to get free hunting in exchange for mentioning some GOs in his OL and PH articles.....many would not take him hunting and coined that nickname for him.

There have just been a variety of new proposals for public comment concerning hunting in Region 4, the Kootenays, put forth by the Wildife Branch in Victoria. MAJOR changes that will benefit the average BC res. hunter are in the offing and I fully expect a major impact on the GOs of that region. The "boffins" and the "politicos" KNOW that we BCers are not happy with the GOs having such a large share of OUR game and it IS changing and at an ever-increasing rate.

If, I were an "average Joe" type of American hunter, I would come here NOW as game pops. are at good levels and access to them is quite open. This is changing and will continue to change as BCers demand more of their own resource as is their absolute right...again, words to the wise...............

And a magazine article that he wrote 20 odd years ago is relevant NOW how?

My original point was simply that JOC was among THE influential writers, etc., who really promoted the whole concept of hunting wild sheep as a "trophy" species and for "Grand Slams". That was/is relevant to both my concern for resident's rights and also the negative effect upon RMBH sheep in respect of horn size-vitality if "cropped" in this fashion, see Coltman, et. al.

I also think that attitudes are very important in setting allocations here and in how the VOTERS here perceive non-res. hunters. In fact, I would bet serious coin that far more BC "non-hunters" would accept an average Yank driving to the "Lakes District" to shoot a "meat" Moose than will ever agree with "fly-in" hunts for Stone's where the "trophy" is the real object of the exercise....and, we hunters MUST make certain that the majority of BC's people understand and accept what we do, or, we are all "toast".

There was an article written by John Barsness in one of the Wolfe Pub.'s mags. a few years ago and in it, John, who is a very nice guy, very bluntly reminded his fellow American hunters that, when in Canada, ...remember it is their country... and, THIS is, very simply, what I am getting at....JB is among my favourite gun scribes because of his lack of arrogance and " average guy" persona.

Thank you for the clarification.

Is it fair to assume though, that trophy sheep hunting would have reached its current level of "status" regardless of whether or not JOC wrote of it?

Is it a fair assumption that even if there weren't ANY gun mags in circulation today that given the advances in technology that sheep hunting would be as popular as it is?

I understand your point about the non-hunters, however, I do not think that acceptance of meat hunting as opposed to trophy hunting is a valid excuse to try to reduce any hunters opportunities in this province.
I trophy hunt muledeer, and whitetails. I meat hunt elk and moose. That said, I'd still take a big tripalm over a two point if they were standing side by each...Reducing the number of hunters regardless of nationality is not going to help our cause.

quote:

Originally posted by BushMonkey:
Thank you for the clarification.

Is it fair to assume though, that trophy sheep hunting would have reached its current level of "status" regardless of whether or not JOC wrote of it?

Is it a fair assumption that even if there weren't ANY gun mags in circulation today that given the advances in technology that sheep hunting would be as popular as it is?

I understand your point about the non-hunters, however, I do not think that acceptance of meat hunting as opposed to trophy hunting is a valid excuse to try to reduce any hunters opportunities in this province.
I trophy hunt muledeer, and whitetails. I meat hunt elk and moose. That said, I'd still take a big tripalm over a two point if they were standing side by each...Reducing the number of hunters regardless of nationality is not going to help our cause.

1. While it can not be determined factually, I doubt that trophy sheep hunting, or American custom rifle building would have reached where they have without JOC's enormous influence due to his writing.

2. Another assumption and one I doubt has any validity as the motives for killing trophy rams have little to do with technology.

3.NO ...excuse...is NEEDED for BCers to do ANYTHING we choose with OUR hunting-game. That simple fact seems so very difficult for some here to understand.

4. I have not posted jackshit about ...reducing the number of hunters...here, actually my proposal would INCREASE hunter numbers. I SERIOUSLY doubt that you and I have an ...our cause..., or, ever will.

I want to see CANADIAN hunters have the opportunity to hunt in BC at a reasonable cost and without a GO, if they wish. This would increase our hunter numbers and also the revenue to further manage and improve habitat.

That's all, this is not about politics and I have posted exhaustively on this before and do not care to repeat myself.

1 & 2) I think you missed my point. By technology I simply mean the internet, and digitial photography reaches MANY more people than the JOC could of ever fathomed. Indisputable. More people now have access to seeing pictures of "rare" big game animals and access to finding how to go about procuring a hunt for said critter.

3) Again, you really have it in your mind that you OWN BC wildlife....The simple fact of the matter is that like it or not the CROWN owns wildlife here. We may have some input as to how it COULD be managed, but when it comes right down to it politicians have the final say as to what happens with our hunting PRIVILEDGES.

4) You continually post about closing the borders to any non-Canadians, then try to change you stance to allowing Commonwealth countries to hunt here (but only the ones you approve of.....) I fail to see how keeping out hunters from one country will INCREASE hunter number. Hunters in Canada have the same opportunity to hunt here that hunters from the US do....

I have ALWAYS been in favour of the "old Commonwealth" nations having a close relationship with Canada, as one might expect from someone of my background. I have always posted that I would like to see the citizens thereof be allowed to hunt here, with some preferences not allowed people from other nations. I have not changed my opinion on this and will not, we bled together in both World Wars and we belong together by shared history, blood and culture in a unique and very valuable way.

...Hunters in Canada have the SAME opportunity to hunt here that hunters from the US do..., you say? THAT is EXACTLY what the MAJOR problem is and it is not acceptable to any REAL Canadian. CANADIANS must come first in Canada and that is all there is to it.

I have very clearly repeatedly posted that my proposals are NOT about ...keeping out hunters from one country... and that is my final word to you on this or any issue here.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
I have ALWAYS been in favour of the "old Commonwealth" nations having a close relationship with Canada, as one might expect from someone of my background. I have always posted that I would like to see the citizens thereof be allowed to hunt here, with some preferences not allowed people from other nations. I have not changed my opinion on this and will not, we bled together in both World Wars and we belong together by shared history, blood and culture in a unique and very valuable way.

...Hunters in Canada have the SAME opportunity to hunt here that hunters from the US do..., you say? THAT is EXACTLY what the MAJOR problem is and it is not acceptable to any REAL Canadian. Your tactics are obvious as your "Canadianess" is, well, you know what I mean, eh.

WOW, this just keeps getting better. The US is made up of the same ethnicity as Canadians, you should know this. Did we not fight alongside the USA in both World Wars?

Thankfully you DO NOT represent the thinking of the REAL Canadian.
It's an insult to citizens of this country for you to ASSUME and try to portay the fact most "real" Canadians think like this.

Maybe I'll just post curses and insults so the mods delete this thread for the betterment of our country.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
.....We have the PETA vermin and lots of other dipshits who are OFTEN US-based (no offence intended, an azzhole is an azzhole!).....

Let's not forget Greenpeace, founded in Vancouver, British Columbia.
You think you're the only one with a wealth of useless knowledge?

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:

...Hunters in Canada have the SAME opportunity to hunt here that hunters from the US do..., you say? THAT is EXACTLY what the MAJOR problem is and it is not acceptable to any REAL Canadian. CANADIANS must come first in Canada and that is all there is to it.

I have very clearly repeatedly posted that my proposals are NOT about ...keeping out hunters from one country... and that is my final word to you on this or any issue here.

Are you sure thats how you feel Dewey?

Only reason I ask is because you posted this on a BC board about 20minutes ago....

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
Your proposal would enhance the ability of the GOs to hunt more comfortably than we residents and that is NOT acceptable. I favour a "heritage" status for ALL old cabins all over BC, BUT, no more gawdam "ski lodges" such as that abortion up Baldface Creek near Nelson which was built where we used to hunt and fish....and at least one of those involved was a Yankee. THEY can get a "permit" to take a truck up there when WE cannot drive our vehicles on that road...same old, same old.

I also am REALLY pizzed about the GOs who can build huge "lodges" in wilderness areas, when our camping is, as it should be, restricted to mountain tents. I am one who fought for decades to preserve wilderness areas in the Kootenays and I damm well do not want Yankees hunting there or GOs building ANY structures there!

Are you sure you simply aren't anti-american?

Link for those interested....
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/...d.php?t=40846&page=4

Damn,dewey. whats the wife working the night shift or something?
I have been having to watch my twelve YO 's internet activities lately.Maybe we should have the wife keep an eye on you.

That "Digging a Hole" smiley made me laugh out loud........

I have both S&P and bushmonkey on ignore and am not certain what you are on about. My wife is a very senior executive and certainly does not work "shifts" of any kind.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
I have both S&P and bushmonkey on ignore and am not certain what you are on about. My wife is a very senior executive and certainly does not work "shifts" of any kind.

You keep blaming us americans for the very real horse shit deal you guys are getting.One day you say you realize this (its your government policies that are the problem),then a few days later,you start saying how its the foreigners fault. I thought maybe the wife was gone,and you got bored and came on to stir up some activity.

Bush monkey noted you just posted some anti american posts on the bc hunts forum,twenty minutes before you come on here.That why I put the guy digging himself deeper in the hole.Just when I start to see your point about how screwed you guys are getting,you revert back to bashing my country.I dont get it.

"Your proposal would enhance the ability of the GOs to hunt more comfortably than we residents and that is NOT acceptable. I favour a "heritage" status for ALL old cabins all over BC, BUT, no more gawdam "ski lodges" such as that abortion up Baldface Creek near Nelson which was built where we used to hunt and fish....and at least one of those involved was a Yankee. THEY can get a "permit" to take a truck up there when WE cannot drive our vehicles on that road...same old, same old.

I also am REALLY pizzed about the GOs who can build huge "lodges" in wilderness areas, when our camping is, as it should be, restricted to mountain tents. I am one who fought for decades to preserve wilderness areas in the Kootenays and I damm well do not want Yankees hunting there or GOs building ANY structures there!"

jb-
Click on "Dewey", then highlight "view recent posts by Dewey".
You'll see quite clearly what he's all about. Don't have any illusions, he dislikes ALL Americans and anyone who disagrees with him.

Once you start criticizing his rhetoric and catch him in a few falsehoods, you'll be on his ignore list.

quote:

Originally posted by sprayandpray:
jb-
Click on "Dewey", then highlight "view recent posts by Dewey".
You'll see quite clearly what he's all about. Don't have any illusions, he dislikes ALL Americans and anyone who disagrees with him.

Once you start criticizing his rhetoric and catch him in a few falsehoods, you'll be on his ignore list.

dewey and I go back a few years.I f you go back far enough,you'll see some of our conversations.Thing is,I see and understand what he says about the residents of BC's hunting rights and so forth,but every few weeks he reverts back to it being foreigners fault,that BC laws are screwed up.

quote:

Originally posted by jb:

quote:

Originally posted by sprayandpray:
jb-
Click on "Dewey", then highlight "view recent posts by Dewey".
You'll see quite clearly what he's all about. Don't have any illusions, he dislikes ALL Americans and anyone who disagrees with him.

Once you start criticizing his rhetoric and catch him in a few falsehoods, you'll be on his ignore list.

dewey and I go back a few years.I f you go back far enough,you'll see some of our conversations.Thing is,I see and understand what he says about the residents of BC's hunting rights and so forth,but every few weeks he reverts back to it being foreigners fault,that BC laws are screwed up.

You're only getting his side of the story and let me tell you that it's a very biased one.
In his mind, this G/O thing is a big problem. Very few care.
Truth is, if no one replied to his posts, he'd start arguing with himself. Senility is bliss!!

quote:

Originally posted by jb:
You keep blaming us americans for the very real horse shit deal you guys are getting.One day you say you realize this (its your government policies that are the problem),then a few days later,you start saying how its the foreigners fault. I thought maybe the wife was gone,and you got bored and came on to stir up some activity.

That is a distortion of what I have posted, I do NOT blame Americans as a whole, BUT, some Americans ARE lobbying BC politicians through their "frontmen" for certain advantages that I totally object to.

I have never posted that I want to see Americans hunting wherever they please in BC and, quite frankly, there ARE a number of areas that I do NOT want them in and fully intend to do whatever it takes to keep them out of.

I have not ...bashed...anyone here and you need to learn a LOT more about the situation before making such ridiculous accusations. I will not respond to anything posted by the two scumbags I have on "ignore", so, that is all I have to say on this, with one exception.

I do NOT want ANY foreign investment, influence or pseudo-ownership of ANY BC operation concerned with the outdoors here in BC. I will do whatever it takes to keep Americans and other foreigners from being involved in the decisions concerning our resource allocations and restrictions and, frankly, I would choose better "sources" than this pair of slimeballs, if, you wish me to take your comments seriously.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
[
I have not ...bashed...anyone here and you need to learn a LOT more about the situation before making such ridiculous accusations. I will not respond to anything posted by the two scumbags I have on "ignore", so, that is all I have to say on this, with one exception.

I do NOT want ANY foreign investment, influence or pseudo-ownership of ANY BC operation concerned with the outdoors here in BC. I will do whatever it takes to keep Americans and other foreigners from being involved in the decisions concerning our resource allocations and restrictions and, frankly, I would choose better "sources" than this pair of slimeballs, if, you wish me to take your comments seriously.

Keep talking in circles Dooby, err, Dewey...Keep talking...more of your lies and half truths exposed and thats the best you can come up with?

quote:

Originally posted by BushMonkey:

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
[
I have not ...bashed...anyone here and you need to learn a LOT more about the situation before making such ridiculous accusations. I will not respond to anything posted by the two scumbags I have on "ignore", so, that is all I have to say on this, with one exception.

I do NOT want ANY foreign investment, influence or pseudo-ownership of ANY BC operation concerned with the outdoors here in BC. I will do whatever it takes to keep Americans and other foreigners from being involved in the decisions concerning our resource allocations and restrictions and, frankly, I would choose better "sources" than this pair of slimeballs, if, you wish me to take your comments seriously.

Keep talking in circles Dooby, err, Dewey...Keep talking...more of your lies and half truths exposed and thats the best you can come up with?

Oops.........

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:

That is a distortion of what I have posted, I do NOT blame Americans as a whole, BUT, some Americans ARE lobbying BC politicians through their "frontmen" for certain advantages that I totally object to.

I have never posted that I want to see Americans hunting wherever they please in BC and, quite frankly, there ARE a number of areas that I do NOT want them in and fully intend to do whatever it takes to keep them out of.

I have not ...bashed...anyone here and you need to learn a LOT more about the situation before making such ridiculous accusations. I will not respond to anything posted by the two scumbags I have on "ignore", so, that is all I have to say on this, with one exception.

I do NOT want ANY foreign investment, influence or pseudo-ownership of ANY BC operation concerned with the outdoors here in BC. I will do whatever it takes to keep Americans and other foreigners from being involved in the decisions concerning our resource allocations and restrictions and, frankly, I would choose better "sources" than this pair of slimeballs, if, you wish me to take your comments seriously.

One simple question:
When you worked in mining and forestry, were the companies wholly Canadian owned and did ALL the products remain in Canada?

One little, two little, three little.....eh, kiddies?

Or, monkey see, monkey do.......

Gee, last time I checked this thread Dewey had come to his senses......I guess his prescription ran out. Time for a refill there, bud.

In all seriousness Dewey, I hope this waffling is forum-based and in response to the agitators......are you this indecisive in real-life?

No, my position on this has been very stable for many years and my attempt on THIS thread to assist a few guys who had been very polite and friendly on the preceding thread has come to naught. I have NEVER and would NEVER agree to unlimited access to BC-Canada by foreigners, for any purpose.

I now realize that the "discussion" concerning this topic on AR has gone as far as possible in respect of any worthwhile comments. You might NOTICE that NOT ONE of those whom have both disagreed with and denigrated me on this and previous threads has "stepped up" to HELP you hunters from other countries....and I think that you are smart enough to figure out the real agenda for yourself..........

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
You might NOTICE that NOT ONE of those whom have both disagreed with and denigrated me on this and previous threads has "stepped up" to HELP you hunters from other countries....and I think that you are smart enough to figure out the real agenda for yourself..........

Here's the problem with that statement....Nothing you, dear Dewey, have said anywhere in this thread does anything to help anyone trying to hunt in BC...

As a resident, there is absolutely jack you can do to help a non-resident hunt here. Period.

oh, come on- Dewey is the most helpful anti-American since Osama Obama. i mean Osama bin Laden.

Perhaps we can try another approuch...

Dewey; are there other places that impliment a system(Hunting-wise) that meets with your approval? Where are these and how do those places work?

That is another issue and, here in "The Great White North", each province controls it's own wildlife, fisheries, etc. The "feds" control that in the northern territories and all marine fishing, such as Salmon on BC's coast.

So, while every Canadian, whether native-born as I am, a "naturalized" citizen like our buddy, Frans Diepstraten, or an aboriginal, has a certain fundamental interest in the management and disposition of wildlife-fisheries resources in all regions of Canada, the major interest is that of residents of each province.

That said, it becomes evident that I concentrate on BC and OUR situation which is what I am most familiar with. I just refused an offer to go Elk hunting in Saskachewan, a place I have never been, because I also had a chance to buy a fabulous young male Rottweiler and the cost took the bux I needed for Sask. So, I really feel most comfortable discussing BC and the hunting here.

My advice to guys like you, who are courteous and respectful is very simple and, I think, both practical and effective. It is simply that. right now, many of the game species populations here are VERY "high" in numbers and this is an excellent time to come hunting in BC. This will not last, due to various "limiting factors", especially climactic ones, so, NOW is the time to book a hunt.

There are posters here, I am one, who have assisted many US hunters with advice on BC hunting and I continue to do this with replies to the dozens of PMs I receive every month concerning such advice. We can do a lot to help with the choice of gear, best times to hunt and where to stay and, especially, which GOS to AVOID and which will give you value for your dollar. I know a number of these people, quite a few working guides and have close friends who are good friends of a number of the top northern and Kootenay GOs...and we KNOW who the bozos and posers are.............

My hope, overall, is to see BC hunting managed far better than it has ever been and to see BC citizens and then our fellow Canadians have the precedence which is our absolute right. However, there are, at present, certain regions of and species in BC where MORE hunting/harvesting would, IMO, be biologically beneficial; these include Sitka Blacktail Deer on the Queen Charlotte Islands and Black Bears throughout the entire province.

Consequently, I consider it a potentially valuable enterprise for BC citizens ONLY to be able to "guide" "non-resident aliens" and make some profit doing so. I can also accept SOME level of kill of all the other species here, BUT, NOT repeat NOT the travesty that is presently taking place, as I have outlined.

I hope you get a chance to hunt here, it is an incredibly beautiful place and you will never forget the wilderness, the mountains or seeing a Grizzly "up close and personal". There are VERY FEW places like BC left on our battered planet and, I, for one, will do whatever it takes to conserve and protect my homeland.

There are some azzholes who might disagree, but, they are best ignored and those with genuine and polite queries are welcome to such help as I can offer.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:

There are posters here, I am one, who have assisted many US hunters with advice on BC hunting and I continue to do this with replies to the dozens of PMs I receive every month concerning such advice..

quote:

originally posted by Dewey:
Sept.26,2009 I am IN FAVOUR of COMMONWEALTH citizens hunting in Canada,it is foreigners such as Americans that I wish to ban...and I could easily be persuaded to allow Norwegians, Icelanders and Irish sportsmen to be allowed here, as well.

Give it up Dewey. Your old posts are burning you alive!!!!!