The thread about the terrible sheep hunt in Yukon made me start thinking of going public With my own grizzly story back in 2015. I might receive critics for doing this now, but I would like AR readers opinion and I hope some other hunters avoid to end up in the same situation.

In August and September 2015 I visited Yukon for another hunt. This time it was a hunt for arctic mountain grizzly and caribou. The hunt was booked in 2012 With Chris Widrig after I and a friend hunted moose with Chris Widrig in 2010. I got my moose that time, but my friend did not. He wanted a moose and I would like a grizzly hunted in the mountains and we decided to book again.

To summarize the hunt; I did not get my grizzly during the first 11 days up in the mountains where Chris Widrig has his sheep camp. I had 2 opportunities to shoot a grizzly, but was denied both times because it was a sow according to the guide. The grizzly was alone both times meaning there were no cubs around. After flying down to Rackla Lake on day 11 where I met my friend that had come over 10 days later than me, I was allowed to continue to hunt my grizzly. However it was my friends moose we concentrated on, but hoped for a grizzly could come along on the carcass of the moose if my friend got a moose.

My friend got a moose and the afternoon day after the grizzly came. It was huge, much larger than the grizzlies we had seen up in the sheep camp. The grizzly was alone and no cubs. In fact I spotted the grizzly from the top of the mountains several kilometers away and followed it all the way down to the carcass. Again I was denied to shoot by the guide as he thought this also were a sow. This was a different guide that I had up in the mountains.

I got very frustrated. I have booked a specific grizzly hunt and made a written contract on that. The first 2 explanations I got was that the bear had a long nose. On the third occation the rump of the bear was too big to be a male. Yes it was kind of big as the bear was sitting eating on the carcass and the bear was big bodyied. I saw that my self… and the guide confirmed. Well over 8 feet he thought. The frustration got even bigger as I had been told that a big bear normally is a male.

During my 11 days up in sheep camp I learned that the sow issue had something to do with the licenses and a point scala for this and next season for the outfitter. Chris Widrig had 8 points meaning he could sell 8 grizzly licenses at a cost of 8.000,- dollars a piece as a add on to the sheep and later moose hunts. One of these licenses he sold as a single grizzly hunt in the last part of sheep season hoping to get a grizzly in the blueberry hillsides. This was the hunt I booked. After the guide denied me to shoot the first grizzly I started asking questions. How come ? Little by little I found out that a sow took 3 points and a male took 1 point. When I arrived in sheep camp there was another hunter that hunted sheep, but just killed a black bear and a grizzly.. a sow. That hunter had the same guide, a native young man in his first guiding season, and he was nervous about this. I think that Chris Widrig had been very clear to the guides that no more sow was to be shot, but Chris did not tell me about it. If I had killed a sow - that would have taken 6 points together and Chris Widrig could then just sell 2 more grizzly tags that season. By other means everything comes down to money ! I also understood that this would effect his quota for next year meaning " loosing " even more money.

But what about me that had booked a spescific grizzly hunt ? The one and only hunt Chris Widrig sells every year to a hunter and the main target is just a grizzly. Widrig did not want to have any discussion on the matter. We concentrate on adult male bears he said after I was denied first time. The contract does not say anything about that I replied - it says grizzly ! Period ! Widrig did not listen and walked away !

I changed camp as described. I understand that the new guides, which was close friends to the Widrigs, were clearly instructed about the sow/male issue and I was again denied. This time it was the rump, not the nose as first 2 times. What the heck is this about ?

In the follow I will present the contract I had signed and the email correspondence I had with Chris Widrig after the hunt. Judge for yourself.. A side story is that I got thrown off the horse on day one and kicked and injuried my leg badly. Luckily my foot did not " fall to sleep " so I avoided to be flown out to a hospital. That leg story is a story for it self…

An AR friend will help me with the photoes and documents. May take a day or two, but when ready please read and study… I would like to hear your judgement on this story. The big grizzly is still haunting me after 3 years…


Morten

Sounds rather sad.

Glad your injuries were not serious.

Sorry Morten.

I have to wonder if Widrig has oversold his grizzly hunts. I also have to wonder if one of those bears was really a boar.

We will never know Larry.

My point is that a mistake from the guide guiding the other hunter that shot a sow should not effect my hunt as I was the one that booked the specific grizzly hunt. Some say that I should have taken the shot and Widrig sort out his own problems. Well, I am not put together like that… but maybe I should have made a different decision at that moment...


M

Very simple question I would have had is whether your license permitted you to shoot a sow with no cubs.

If it did, there was no reason for you not to shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by WannabeBwana:
Very simple question I would have had is whether your license permitted you to shoot a sow with no cubs.

If it did, there was no reason for you not to shoot.

I must admit that I never asked to see it. I see that this is a mistake. At the same time it was never presented to me that the license gave such instructions. And the license was never argued in the discussion either from the outfitter. He only stated that " we try to concentrate on boars " ! I never heard that the hunter who shot a sow was accused for anything illegal...

M

Fra: Morten
Sendt: mandag 5. oktober 2015 10:03
Til: 'Chris Widrig (chris@widrigoutfitters.com)' <chris@widrigoutfitters.com>
Emne: SV: Your Grizzly/caribou hunt

Chris Widrig,

I have read your email with answers to my comments on the grizzly hunt.

To be honest, I expected a substantive disagreement on the matter, but I am very surprised by your answer. You are in fact presenting untrue allegations and vexatious statements. I do not intend to discuss the matter at such a low level, but allow me to point out some facts.

Due diligence - paying for a hunting trip not a dead grizzly
You accuse me for not doing my due diligence. I am fully aware of the fact that I pay for a hunting trip and not a dead grizzly. I am also fully aware of that you focus on trying to harvest old mature male bears. The contract is saying grizzly hunt – nothing more. Your saying “ focus on trying “ – it should therefore be understood as a female bear is not illegal to harvest. This is my point when you allow another hunter to harvest a female and not me as the specific grizzly hunter. You are now saying that the harvest of the sow was an honest mistake. The case was not presented like that when I was in camp.

Maybe you should do your “ due diligence “ and present a contract that is more precise and describe what kind of sex the hunter are allowed to harvest ?

Booking a horseback hunt
You may have a point that I am not the best fit horse rider, but in general I am fit enough to do such a hunt as I am fit enough to walk all the distance. Even with an injured leg. What I find odd is that you were not present when Peggy throws me off and neither was Andrew. She did not step in a hole. I cannot comment the Mexican hunter riding her, but I just comment what happen to us. Iseah rode Peggy next day ( half day ) and he had problems with her. She was a pain in the ass in the string. Andrew decided to leave her as a pack horse and even then he had problems with her. You may protest, but this is the facts. Zorro made no such problems, and my complaint to you is based on the decision on choosing Peggy, not the riding in general. We made it back from spike camp in bad weather in 4 hours and 15 minutes me walking very much of the distance. I had some pain in my leg and my hips. That said, I'm not a good rider, but I cannot see that I delayed us substantially and complained all the time as it is presented on your part.

Stick to African Jeep Safaris
Based on this assertion, I understand that you probably have never been on a Big 5 or on a serious plains game hunt in Africa. I find you statement totally unprofessional. Such a statement seems therefore based on ignorance.

Anachronistic attitudes that put money ahead of conservation and basic morality
You state below the following; “ You told me in an email that if you wounded a grizzly you would just go and look for another one to shoot (because my wounding policy came out after you signed the hunt contract ) “
I would like you Chris Widrig to present the specific email from me saying this. I can assure you that you will not find it. The fact is that we have never talked or corresponded about this: It is also a total opposite view that I have regarding hunting. I find it totally out of order to accuse me for such a thing and I am very much surprised that you in fact write such accusations to a client. It is also obvious that you actually forget the facts – I followed orders from you and the guides 3 times and did not shoot !

What is correct is that you had a discussion with Mr Halvorsen about your wounding policy came out after signing contract. You and I have never discussed this matter at all. The discussion is as far I am informed based on contract understanding and not moral. Again I find your statement based on ignorance.

Further you state below; “ Your views about grizzly hunting are similar to “Cecil the Lion killer”..... anachronistic attitudes that put money ahead of conservation and basic morality. “ I do not know how to respond to this statement. However, I doubt that you are the one person in the world with correct information on the Cecil case. I am again very surprised about your unprofessional statement as you base your statement on untrue accusations.


I have been thinking how to react to your email the last couple of days. I find your email at such a low level that it should be reported to Yukon Association of Outfitters, Hunting Report or Accurate Reloading or something. I have recommended your outfit to several people and due to my recommendations you have sold 2 fully paid hunts in addition to my 2 hunts. I can assure you that your behavior and statements in this case stops me from being your ambassador. I have already been contacted by two fellow hunters on Accurate Reloading asking for a trip report. I guess you understand that my report will not be very positive ! Hunting is hunting and no guarantees, but when behaving like you do – game over !



Regards
Morten



Fra: Chris Widrig [mailto:chris@widrigoutfitters.com]
Sendt: 4. oktober 2015 03:08
Til: Morten
Emne: Your Grizzly/caribou hunt

Hello Morton,


Hi Morton,

I am finally out of the mountains and able to respond directly to your complaints. I feel we had a very good season, especially for moose and grizzly (15 hunters harvested 14 bull moose and we did harvest four grizzly, three of which were males over 7 Ft). You really need to do more “due diligence” about the hunts you book. If you read about grizzly hunting on my website it states the following: “We focus on trying to harvest only older, mature male bears. This has contributed to a stable population and a bright future for limited grizzly hunting. It should be understood that the overall success rate for grizzly hunting is much less than for the other three main game species in the area.” My guides are very knowledgeable and would not knowingly allow a hunter to shoot a female grizzly. Both Andrew and Myles did a great job on your hunt in this regard. We are conservation minded and would like to preserve opportunities for future grizzly hunting. Yes, it is unfortunate that you did not get to shoot a grizzly, but you did receive a full 20 day hunt and harvested a caribou. You were paying for a hunting trip not a dead grizzly. One of our hunters on the last moose hunt has been on five different hunts without taking a bear.
This was your 2nd horseback hunt with us. On the first one you had over twenty hours of riding to and from spike camp. We tried to limit the riding distances this hunt as per your request. Peggy is a great horse and she is not new as she had a full season last year. An 18 year old Spanish hunter with limited riding experience rode her most of the last hunt. As I understand it you only rode Peggy for a few hours on the first day. She stepped in a hole and you basically fell off. When I passed you on the trail along the Snake you were riding Zorro. Andrew told me that you were constantly complaining about the horseback riding....so why did you book a horseback hunt?
A few other things....we do not carry satellite phones every day when we are hunting. They are in spike camp and in base camp, a short ride away if needed. Hunters come up to our wilderness area to escape technology and they willingly assume the risk that primitive hunting entails. Perhaps you should stick to the African jeep safaris. No Mexican harvested a grizzly with us this season. An American did shoot a female, the guide was sure it was a male.....honest mistake.
I now think that you were a very poor fit for the type of hunt that we offer. You told me in an email that if you wounded a grizzly you would just go and look for another one to shoot (because my wounding policy came out after you signed the hunt contract). You also state that you should have a right to kill a female grizzly....because you paid for it. Well I do not agree. Grizzly bears are rare animals deserving of the highest respect.....I will not have a hunter kill more than one (a wounded bar is basically a dead bear). We will continue to concentrate on taking male bears and help ensure a future for limited grizzly hunting. Your views about grizzly hunting are similar to “Cecil the Lion killer”..... anachronistic attitudes that put money ahead of conservation and basic morality.

Chris Widrig



From: Morten
Sent: September-15-15 11:56 PM
To: Chris Widrig
Subject: SV: credit

Hi Joanne,

I do not understand this as I cannot remember that this happened in 2010 when I shot the moose. Mastercard xxxxxx. Code will be sent in separate email.

However, I have a couple of serious complaints about the conduct of my grizzly hunt.

First I find it totally unacceptable that I, as the hunter that booked the specific grizzly hunt, am not allowed to shoot a female grizzly. The contract says grizzly and has no written restrictions whatsoever regarding female or male grizzly. When I arrive in camp a Mexican hunter has shot a female grizzly on his sheep hunt. I am denied to shoot female grizzly twice at Goz Lake. After being denied to shoot twice I ask why and the answer has something to do with a point system that a female takes away 3 points and a male takes away 1 point. In my opinion this is completely irrelevant for me as the specific grizzly hunter.

The fact that the Mexican shot a female confirms that shooting female is legal. This fact again lead to that you deliver a 50% product to a 100% price meaning that you sell a grizzly hunt at a full price, but take away 50% of the grizzly product when denying the grizzly hunter to shoot a legal female. I would have understood that other hunter were allowed to hunt a female, but only after the specific booked grizzly hunt is over and the hunter has left.

Chris says to me when leaving Goz Lake that I can continue my grizzly hunt at Rackla Lake. On day 8 a huge grizzly comes down from the mountains to the moose gut pile at the shoreline of the lake. The grizzly would be 8 feet plus according to Myles jr, but he does not allow me to shoot as he thinks it is a female. The grizzly was at least about the size according to attached picture shot by hunter guided by Ben Stourac some years back. The grizzly was much bigger than the 7 feet in Goz Lake. Once again I suffer from the 50% product because a sheep hunter was allowed to shoot a female and not I as the specific booked grizzly hunter.

I expect to receive your comments on this and hopefully a suggestion for compensation as I feel that you have received a full price on the hunt, but delivered a 50% product.


Furthermore; I have a couple of complaints about young Andrew – my guide at Goz Lake. First of all I was very specific in my Hunter Information sheet that I wanted a steady horse as I am not very familiar with horses. They put me on Peggy that I later understand is one of the new horses and not very experienced. That horse was a pain to the string for the rest of the hunt and as you knows throw me off and kicked my leg first day in the hillside up in the rocky terrain. I was very lucky that I just got a leg injury and was not thrown off 2-3 feet in any other direction as that would have been much more fatal. The decision made by the Widrig team was in my opinion very bad, especially since the horse I had in 2010, Zorro, was on the string a pack horse. Why ? Even Ryan remembered that I was riding Zorro in 2010 and riding him from day 3 on this hunt did not make any such problems. ( except for understand my abilities and therefore a little slow on the trail, but better that then throwing the client off )

Second is that Andrew did not bring his satellite telephone on that day. It was a 2-2,5 hour ride back to camp. If I had broken my leg or had a back or head injury, Andrew would have to leave me there and get back to camp to call for assistance.

Third is that because I am not an experienced rider, my horse walked more slow than the others. On two occasions I was addressed by Andrew to hurry up. Last time on trail back to Goz Lake Andrew made a point that he would not have his horses on the trail all day because of bad weather. Is it his horses ? Did the horses have a warm dry stable in Goz Lake when we came into camp ? I do not like to be spoken at with all this bullshit as I am not stupid and I was doing my best. Further Andrew and Iseah did not keep contact all the time and I was left alone on the trail for some time. This is not a problem in itself, but since I was walking a lot partly because riding was painful because of leg, what if some grizzly came along ?

I look forward to receive your comments and suggestions on the above matter.


Regards
Morten

Fra: Morten
Sendt: mandag 5. oktober 2015 18:38
Til: Chris Widrig <chris@widrigoutfitters.com>
Emne: SV: Your Grizzly/caribou hunt

I hear what you say Chris.

Myles sr and Myles jr was two very fine people to be in camp with. Probably the best guides we could have. We told them that. I respected jr decision of not shooting the big grizzly. I was of course disappointed about his decision, but respected it.

I doubt very much what you are saying. The main reason for that is the fact that your accusations do not involve the guides very much except for the horseriding.


Kind regards
Morten



-------- Opprinnelig melding --------
Fra: Chris Widrig <chris@widrigoutfitters.com>
Dato: 05.10.2015 17:44 (GMT+01:00)
Til: Morten
Emne: RE: Your Grizzly/caribou hunt

After a complete discussion with the guides on your hunt Andrew, Myles sr. and Myles Jr., I fully stand by all of my comments below.


Chris Widrig

Above is the email correspondance in the case.

We had a Norwegian do a bear hunt here, who complained to the outfitter's association about his hunt. Turned out he insisted on having his wife in the tree stand with him. Every time a bear [Black] showed up, she would scream. Needless to say, he didn't get a bear.

Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams:
We had a Norwegian do a bear hunt here, who complained to the outfitter's association about his hunt. Turned out he insisted on having his wife in the tree stand with him. Every time a bear [Black] showed up, she would scream. Needless to say, he didn't get a bear.

Grizz

WEll.. it was not me I guess his complaint did not succeed

Morten

So Widrig says he had a very successful season, shooting 3 male grizzlies and 1 female. That's 6 points...another female would have put him over his 8 points. So he and his guides did have a reason to be super cautious. But that shouldn't affect the client, especially not the client paying for a grizzly hunt.
One of his first year guides made a mistake of shooting a female, that's a risk Widrig should bear, not his clients. He hires the guide, that is a risk he takes.

I can understand both sides of the issue. It appears to revolve around communications, intent, and misunderstandings. I put that on the outfitter.

First the outfitter should have explained the issue of point values for male vs female before the hunt was booked. It may seem like something an outfitter would not want to divulge but it is exactly the kind of thing an outfitter should divulge. We understand they are in the business of booking and conducting hunts. We don't expect them to do things that are not lucrative. Knowing about the point system would go a long way to increase a customer's understanding about the outfitter's need to restrict hunts to males.

Just as important, the contract should clearly state up front that this is a male only grizzly hunt. Stating that an effort will be made to shoot a male is not the same thing. It's like saying he will make every effort to shoot a 7-point stag. Just as that statement would leave a hunter to believe that a 5-point or 6-point stag is okay if a 7-point cannot be found so too would the bear hunter think a female is okay if a male could not be found. If it's a male only hunt he should plainly say so BEFORE booking the hunt.

An alternative might be to give the hunter the option. After the point system is explained the contract might give the hunter the option of shooting a female bear for an additional cost if a male bear cannot be found. The additional cost could offset the points lost. In general, giving the hunter an option is a good way to conduct business. This is just a suggestion.

I believe the outfitter is serious about his support for the conservation effort. However, the fact that he never came out and explained that it was a male only grizzly hunt suggests he is trying to hide that fact to make extra money by misleading hunters. It appears as if he knows customers will have less of a chance for a success than he leads them to believe. If the outfitter wants to remove that appearance he should amend his bear contracts to say that he will be conducting "male only" grizzly hunts and that absolutely no females will be taken intentionally.

Lastly, a good businessman doesn't bitch about his customer's complaints. He listens thoughtfully, reassures, apologizes, and consoles. Try as he might, he does not and cannot experience things from the point of view of the customer. Arguing and insulting a customer never accomplishes anything - even if the business owner believes himself to be in the right. Bad form!

quote:

“We focus on trying to harvest only older, mature male bears. This has contributed to a stable population and a bright future for limited grizzly hunting. It should be understood that the overall success rate for grizzly hunting is much less than for the other three main game species in the area.”

No idea on the details of this instance but this from the outfitter's website seems pretty clear! The bulk of Yukon outfitters I know strive only to harvest mature male bears and the occasional female is a mistake. Telling them apart is typically not that difficult but the occasional one fools you!

quote:

Originally posted by The Norwegian:
We will never know Larry.

My point is that a mistake from the guide guiding the other hunter that shot a sow should not effect my hunt as I was the one that booked the specific grizzly hunt. Some say that I should have taken the shot and Widrig sort out his own problems. Well, I am not put together like that… but maybe I should have made a different decision at that moment...


M

You did the right thing Morten.

quote:

Originally posted by BushPeter:
So Widrig says he had a very successful season, shooting 3 male grizzlies and 1 female. That's 6 points...another female would have put him over his 8 points. So he and his guides did have a reason to be super cautious. But that shouldn't affect the client, especially not the client paying for a grizzly hunt.
One of his first year guides made a mistake of shooting a female, that's a risk Widrig should bear, not his clients. He hires the guide, that is a risk he takes.

Money back then?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by BushPeter:
So Widrig says he had a very successful season, shooting 3 male grizzlies and 1 female. That's 6 points...another female would have put him over his 8 points. So he and his guides did have a reason to be super cautious. But that shouldn't affect the client, especially not the client paying for a grizzly hunt.
One of his first year guides made a mistake of shooting a female, that's a risk Widrig should bear, not his clients. He hires the guide, that is a risk he takes.

Money back then?

As you read from the email Andrew - I asked for a compensation. ( In fact I asked about a another hunt with a discount but in another email ) Widrig never answered that question… but instead stated something about Cecil and African Jeep Safaris...

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

Money back then?

I don't think so. It was a not a guaranteed hunt. But the hunter had a right to know what the restrictions were going in. Because things weren't explained up front the hunter felt like he was being denied good shots. It left him feeling cheated - not the best thing for business.

Chris said he only shoots male bears on his website....it was pretty clear. The accidental shooting of a sow didn't change anything that I can see. Even if he had 10 points left I can't see where purposefully shooting a sow would be permitted. Am I missing something?

I can see the issues of both sides. However, the outfitters communications leave a lot to be desired. His e mail just guaranteed that I will never go with him.

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:
Chris said he only shoots male bears on his website....it was pretty clear... Am I missing something?

I think so. He does not say he only shoots male bears on his website. This is what the website says:

quote:

Given the relatively low population, all of the Yukon is on a limited quota for grizzly hunting. The Yukon Department of Environment has had an excellent record of grizzly bear management over the years. Our outfitting concession is allotted a quota of thirteen grizzly over three years. We focus on trying to harvest only older, mature male bears. This has contributed to a stable population and a bright future for limited grizzly hunting.

"We focus on trying to harvest" is not the same as "we only harvest". See my comment about the 7-point stag above. All my life I "focused on trying" to date gorgeous women but when unsuccessful I settled for what I could get. I also "focused on trying" to get the highest pay for my work but was glad to accept the best I could negotiate. When I go fishing I "focus on trying" to land the biggest fish in the river but I'm satisfied as long as its big enough to be legal. No, "we focus on trying" is not the same as "we only".

I read that as the occasional mistake is made and a sow gets killed. Kinda of like being really drunk at closing time at the bar to use your analogy. It doesn't happen often but occasionally we screw up He can't say they "only harvest" as mistakes are occasionally made but they try. But I see where it could be interpreted otherwise.

Chris Widrig has any outfitter in the Yukon has quota set for 3 years and the quota is given with boar and sow on it.

for the specific area from 2008-2010 the quota was 4 sow and 12 boars for 2011-2013 3sow boars 10 2014-2016 4 sow and 11 boars 2016-2019 3 sow and 11 boars.

knowing the sructure of the calculation for quota that means he over harvest in 2008-2010 boar and sow thus the reduction in 2011-2013 then followed the direction in 2011-2013 but again in 2014-2016 which include 2015 he over harvest on sow and did well on boar ... as we can see they reduced the sow quota in 2016-2019.

in the past the system was 3 points for a sow and 1 points for a boar with a certain amount given for each outfitter. they changed that a while ago and instead coming with the numbers i posted. they are different for every concession area but Chris is one of the area where resident hunters has no impact on his quota therefore he is responsible for it.

i can tell you that every year sow are taken and they are very old one. we call dry ssow for a reason and despite not able to have cubs they count has sow but are very good trophy. a friend of us got this fall a sow over 20 years old well worn out.

on another note i had the pleasure to meet Morten before the hunt and he was fit for the horseback and excited about his grizzly hunt to say the least ...

i tried to contact Chris about Morten hunt and never got a reply ...

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:

quote:

“We focus on trying to harvest only older, mature male bears. This has contributed to a stable population and a bright future for limited grizzly hunting. It should be understood that the overall success rate for grizzly hunting is much less than for the other three main game species in the area.”

No idea on the details of this instance but this from the outfitter's website seems pretty clear! The bulk of Yukon outfitters I know strive only to harvest mature male bears and the occasional female is a mistake. Telling them apart is typically not that difficult but the occasional one fools you!

not clear at all for me TJ there is no 13 male grizzly bears on quota for his outfitting concession ... 3 sow and 11 boar is what he has for the last 2016-2019 ....unless the new quota is even more restrictive ....

Hunt was 2015 if I read correctly....I just threw some numbers out for example.

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:
Hunt was 2015 if I read correctly....I just threw some numbers out for example.

his actual website says 13 .... for his quota.

Don't doubt you are right....as I said above I was just throwing out some random numbers to make a point. Use 13 if like

Hi guys,

based on your comments I summarize the following:

- I did a mistake not checking the license and get a clear understanding of the quota
- Sows were on the 3 year quota and a sow is legal to kill
- Chris Widrig should have informed better and clarifyed quota etc before the hunting starts
- Contracts must be more clear in what to expect and what is on quota


But I cannot forget what happened. I was very frustrated as the guides changed arguments all the time. I think they got so nervous because of Chris Widrig that they would be 200% sure it was a male before they would let me shoot. Must have something about the quota to do and they have been told about consequences from Widrig if something went wrong.. or something like that. Strange thing is that the guide I had up in the mountains found a grizzly many kilometers away in the binocular an hour or so after I was thrown of the horse the first day. He was certain that the bear was a male... I do not know why he was certain when the same guide was uncertain on 250 yards on a grizzly walking towards us in the snow and we were lying down above him in a perfect shooting distance… It was the nose that was too long and it was the walking.. a male should walk more swinging from side to side..he said.


I am thinking of this hunt almost every day since… Very frustrating .. especially since I was the spescific grizzly hunter that year - the hunt that Chris Widrig sell to hunt just grizzly … I expected that they put all efforts to make that spescific hunt be successful with regard to grizzly..


Morten

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I can see the issues of both sides. However, the outfitters communications leave a lot to be desired. His e mail just guaranteed that I will never go with him.

I couldn't agree more.

That comment about a "Jeep" is simply infantile and not professional. To me, it demonstrates what Widrig really is all about........ azz....

I can see both sides, to a degree. However, I would say that Morten has every right to complain as I do not
believe (from the correspondence) that the Outfitter was clear about the hunt.

With that said, I cannot understand how Outfitters can justify/believe it is a good idea to insult a past client. I make a big part of my living making sales for my company and just shake my head when a business owner/employees is a jerk (yes, the Outfitter was a jerk with his replies). For every complaining client he insults and/or loses, he probably loses another 10 prospective clients.

I believe that the Outfitter should have offered a discounted hunt and made it "right" with him. Based on the evidence, he would have every right for partial compensation.

The Outfitter can now look at this thread and see I am one of the possible many hunters that would not hunt with him..

Morten:

I would suggest finding a new hunting outfit (if you can make another trip).

Yesterday I talked to another experienced guide in Yukon. He stated that deciding between a male and sow sometimes was very difficult, especially the older sows without cubs. ( LIke Medved mentioned previsoly in this thread ) The Yukon guide also said that a big artic mountian grizzly normally is a male - which also I have heard from many others. The guide I had near Rackla Lake had never guided grizzly hunts before, but hunted black bear many times. But he was set up for my friends moose hunt so you might excuse him for not beeing experienced with grizzlies.

We will never find out. Another trip has been on my mind since I left Yukon in September 2015. But it will not be in Canada.. Alaska or Russia is on my mind for a possible new bear hunt.


Morten

I do not understand - or like - this very silly points system!

Another reason why I never wish to hunt anywhere except Africa!

You buy a licence, see a mature animal, and you shoot it.

No hanky panky!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I do not understand - or like - this very silly points system!

Another reason why I never wish to hunt anywhere except Africa!

You buy a licence, see a mature animal, and you shoot it.

No hanky panky!

That's too simple for us.

Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by The Norwegian:
Yesterday I talked to another experienced guide in Yukon. He stated that deciding between a male and sow sometimes was very difficult, especially the older sows without cubs. ( LIke Medved mentioned previsoly in this thread ) The Yukon guide also said that a big artic mountian grizzly normally is a male - which also I have heard from many others. The guide I had near Rackla Lake had never guided grizzly hunts before, but hunted black bear many times. But he was set up for my friends moose hunt so you might excuse him for not beeing experienced with grizzlies.

We will never find out. Another trip has been on my mind since I left Yukon in September 2015. But it will not be in Canada.. Alaska or Russia is on my mind for a possible new bear hunt.


Morten

I'd be more curious what colour the bear was.

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:

quote:

Originally posted by The Norwegian:
Yesterday I talked to another experienced guide in Yukon. He stated that deciding between a male and sow sometimes was very difficult, especially the older sows without cubs. ( LIke Medved mentioned previsoly in this thread ) The Yukon guide also said that a big artic mountian grizzly normally is a male - which also I have heard from many others. The guide I had near Rackla Lake had never guided grizzly hunts before, but hunted black bear many times. But he was set up for my friends moose hunt so you might excuse him for not beeing experienced with grizzlies.

We will never find out. Another trip has been on my mind since I left Yukon in September 2015. But it will not be in Canada.. Alaska or Russia is on my mind for a possible new bear hunt.


Morten

I'd be more curious what colour the bear was.

do not rely only on colour: we ve seen a huge boar that was lightly blonde with no dark mark or patch in the mckenzie border yukon side ...

Didn't say I was relying on it....said I was curious! Still am

First bear walking towards us in the snow up in the mountains was dark brown. The next was dark brown to black. It was just 100 meters from camp and came swimming in the lake were Chris Widrig sheep camp is located. The big one down by Rackla Lake was dark brown when sitting eating on the moose carcass, but looked a little more chocolate/blond when stood up and walked.

Any conclusions out of this ?

Morten

This idiot trying to be an outfitter HARVESTING animals??

May be he should start a farm instead!

He sounds like he has absolute no clue what hunting actually entails!

Too impressed by his harvesting ability!

quote:

Originally posted by The Norwegian:
First bear walking towards us in the snow up in the mountains was dark brown. The next was dark brown to black. It was just 100 meters from camp and came swimming in the lake were Chris Widrig sheep camp is located. The big one down by Rackla Lake was dark brown when sitting eating on the moose carcass, but looked a little more chocolate/blond when stood up and walked.

Any conclusions out of this ?

Morten

No conclusions but all clues. Mature blonde bears are typically sows and mature dark bears are typically boars. As medved so graciously pointed out it's not foolproof but a great starting point. The ankles are also a telltale sign. Slender ankles on a mature bear means a sow. More stovepipe like legs equals boar. It a matter of looking at all the clues. If the bear on the moose was blonde I can understand your guide's hesitance. I'm sure he looked at the other physical traits as well? They apply grizz or black. All wet bears appear darker than they are so something to bear in mind as well.