I'm toying with the idea of a dall sheep hunt and would like to begin my research. I'd really like to have the opportunity to take a large ram with horns that flare out. I'm getting a bit long in the tooth, so the physical aspect is something to be considered. Who are the top outfits I should consider?

SBT,

The ram you described does not come easily. Many consider the Dall the most physically demanding of all North American trophies. The better shape you are in, the more you will enjoy your hunt, and the better chance of finding a twister.

My recommendations would be the MacKenzie Mountains in the Territories. The area usually produces very high success rates. Arctic Red outfitters had an outstanding year last year. But they offer backpack hunts.

There are a few outfitters in adjacent blocks that I believe offer a backpack/horse assist. You might want to check Stan Simpson, or just Google Mackenzie Mountain sheep hunts.

PM me if you would like additional info.

Best of luck to you.

Arctic Red River Outfitters and Nahanni Butte Outfitters would probably be my top two choices for an old "twister" ram.

Arctic Red River and Stan Simpson both have very good reputations.
Another one to check out is RedStone Trophy Outfitters. I hunted with them last year and had a great time. Took a 12 yr old ram. What I liked about their operation is they have such a large area that they don't go to the same place but every six years. One of the guys in our party swore (as well as the guide) that he had a 40" in sight but just wasn't able to close the deal.
As far as ease of hunt - it was nothing like my stone sheep hunt. I thought all in all that the dall was much easier. We rode horses for two days to our spike camp and then hunted for three more. Saw plenty of sheep but was holding out for the best that I thought I could get. Really happy with my 12 yr old.

It is interesting how the same names keep coming up. I believe Nahanni Butte and Artic Red River would be top choices and a friend of mine hunted with Stan Simpson and gave a great report. Anybody hunt with South Nahanni?

However, I've just received some initial quotes and $18,000 for a dall sheep hunt is just out of budget. I thought they went for around $10,000 - what happened?

quote:

Originally posted by SBT:
However, I've just received some initial quotes and $18,000 for a dall sheep hunt is just out of budget. I thought they went for around $10,000 - what happened?

That is about the going rate for the NWT dall hunts. The Alaska hunts are in the 10k range. However, the success rates in Canada are usually a bit better. The question to ask- is the extra money worth the increase chances of success?

You may also want to ask these outfitters if they have any cancellation hunts. Arctic Red had one a month or so ago.

Good luck!

SBT, if you do some negotiating you should get the price to around $15 to $16k. $18 is a bit strong.
Also, I've hunted dall in Alaska and NWT. My personal hunt in AK was horrible and saw nothing but immature rams and the only other species I saw was a grizz with her cubs. In NWT, the scenery was much more inviting. And saw lots of different game - bear, caribou (by the 100's), wolf. moose and even a wolverine to name a few.
For me, AK is for bears and fishing. It's beautiful country but it has nothing on Canada.

Scott, If you want a wide flaring ram with thick horns you want to hit the Brooks Range, the only drawback is that they don't drop deep below the ears like a Chugach ram or a Tok or Delta Ram. You could do this hunt between $10K-$12K, there are a number of outfitters that guide in the Brooks. The other option is to put in for draw areas in the Chugach, Tok and Delta areas then find you a guide to take you out, could be cheaper in the long run.

I have a buddy in Jackson that took a nice Dall in the Brooks in 2006, I can give you his number if you want to see it.....Chuck

I wonder why there seems to be a major cost difference between hunting a Dall's Sheep in AK and one in the Yukon or NWT? It sure seems odd to me that essentially the same animal would cost say $12K to hunt in AK and $18K in Canada.

Anybody?

quote:

Originally posted by bluefin:
For me, AK is for bears and fishing. It's beautiful country but it has nothing on Canada.

This is what I keep trying to tell ya!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
I wonder why there seems to be a major cost difference between hunting a Dall's Sheep in AK and one in the Yukon or NWT? It sure seems odd to me that essentially the same animal would cost say $12K to hunt in AK and $18K in Canada.

Anybody?

Probably because of the shipping costs from Alaska to Canada....hehehehe

I wonder if the difference in quotes is trophy fees included and or not included?

Watson lake

There are no trophy fees here in Alaska. For a U.S. non-resident, you must buy a hunting license ($85)and a Dall sheep tag ($425)...

The pricing I recieved was in full. No trophy fees. And no outfitter I ever spoke with from Canada added any trophy fee for dall. I have seen it for stone and bighorn but not dall. However, there is the additional flight cost to get into the NWT which is not a commercial flight so that can be rather spendy.

Having not seen the Brooks I cannot give a comparison but I have hunted the MacKenzie Mountains with MacKenzie Mountain Outfitters and the country is simply breathtaking, pristine and you will be among the few who have ever walked/hunted this outstanding territory.

Is it worth the extra $5K, it is your money.

I made the decision to hunt the territories, even though it cost 5k more. Most of the AK outfitters were in the 50-70% chance of success. And they can get a lot of pressure, as most of the ones I spoke with do not hunt exclusive territories.

In Canada, the outfitters have exclusive guiding rights to huge areas. The only competition is from resident hunters. Given the access difficulty, the resident pressure is next to zero.

And on average, the MacKenzies turn out bigger rams (with he exception of TOK/Chugach draw tags).

Since I only wanted to do the hunt once (have since changed my mind), the question was did I want to save the 5 thousand, or potentially waste the 10?

I did one bargain sheep hunt, and it was a waste of time and money. For these animals, IMO, go with only the best.

The situation in the NWT is that even a native-born Canadian citizen CANNOT obtain a hunting licence there, as a "resident" until he/she has lived there for TWO years. I am not certain, but, I think the same stricture is in effect in the Yukon. It is not really fair to Canadians, whose taxes heavily subsidize the "territories" as with the 70M more per annum that it costs to have "Nunavut" as a separate entity rather than just the all-encompassing "NWT" as it was when I lived and worked there 40+ years ago.

So, IMO, this is one issue that tends to lessen "resident" pressure on the huntable species and it applies to ALL Canadians who move north, even R.C.M.P. who are transfered to "Haywire River" or other such balmy locales.

My wife and I were seriously considering moving to either Whitehorse or maybe Yellowknife, where she was an "outpost" RN when she retires and this regulation effectively prevented that, as I would have to, in my mid-60s, lose two valuable years of what hunting I have left....my BC resident status would be canceled when I changed legal addresses and driver's licences, which is mandatory.....

I see, as here in B.C., the "hand" of the Guide-Outfitters in this regulation and it is more of the same old shenanigans that has caused the huge rift between GOs and resident hunters here in BC, espcially those of us who are members of and support our BC Wildlife Association.

I was supposed to do a two week "fly-in" trip to the McMillan Pass area close to the YK-NWT border this coming August, but, just cancelled yesterday as my wife's medical situation is keeping me home and that is too far to roam....well, "next year". That region IS among the very FEW real wildernesses left, but, with minerals, petro-resources, aboriginal "rights" (blech) and the typical Canadian government uselessness in respect of environmental issues, it will probably soon be just another situation like "the Tar Sands" in Alberta.........

Dewey, did I read your post correct in that any Canadian citizen (ex "aboriginals") who moves among the various territories will LOSE ALL HUNTING RIGHTS in Canada for two years while meeting the residency requirement? If yes, that really sucks. Surely thas is not the case.

Even when the two year period is achieved, getting to some places would still require use of a float/tundra plane unless of course you had a year to hike the one hundred plus miles over mountain after mountain to get into some of the best country.

Certainly agree that this country MUST be put off limits to any type of mineral interests - as I watch barrel after barrel wash up on our beaches in the Gulf! Good luck. I too hope to return to NWT before going to the big safari in the sky.

That is a bit over-simplified, but, since a number of provinces have recently made further restrictions on "non resident" hunters, I can only speak to the BC-"territories" situation.

Here, a Canadian or certain other persons MUST reside in BC for the entire six months prior to obtaining a BC Hunter Number, which is mandatory for buying a licence. You also, MUST, obtain a BC Driver's Licence if you WORK here for six months and these seem related, as you cannot hold res. hunting or driving licences in two or more jurisdictions, at once.

Soooo, I move to the "territories" as I almost did to work for the Canadian Forest Service and "the Cherub" would have nursed in "outposts". We would HAVE TO surrender our BC HNs and DLs after six months and, yet, could NOT qualify for a "resident hunting licence" in the NWT for another year and a half......both of our families particpated in the opening of Canada's western and northern regions and for centuries, not merely a few decades.......

The problem, is due to the jurisdiction of each province over fish and wildlife within it's legal boundaries, BUT, the "terrotories" are largely governed by the Dominion Government. Thus, due to the Indian-Halfbreed situation and recent political shenanigans, the actual administration is inefficient and costly to we taxpayers and the "rules" are murky and seemingly "bent" to accomodate certain interests......

Read the thread below this concerning the Caribou "hunting" by the "natural stewards of the land" whose "traditional" electric freezers are not as full as they seem to think they should be and you can perhaps see what I am getting at......

...off limits to mineral interests.... HAR, HAR, HAR, NEVER HAPPEN, especially with SECURE OIL for "Uncle" a major part of what is happening. Take a look at "The Athabaska Tar Sands" freakin' eco-disaster, the devastation of the FIFTH LARGEST riverine ecosystem on Earth and THEN tell me about ...limits...!

Nope, that wilderness is kinda like Bruce Springsteen sang about Pennsylvania steel jobs, to the effect that " these jobs are going, boys, and they ain't comin' back". Be happy that you saw what you did and hurry back because Canada is just dying to sell MORE raw resources to China or whomever....gotta finance the "Just Society" somehow, them "Human Rights Commissions" and "treaties" cost BIG bux!

Dewey,
Y A F O S

WL

Just an example, here. If, I want to, I can invite ONE Canadian citizen OR an non-Canuck who meets certain relationship criteria, to hunt as an "accompanied" legal hunter with me per year. This cannot be for "draw" species, under BC's LEH system, so, much of the most desireable hunting is not available.

Alberta, has an even more generous "Hunter Host" programme and an Albertan resident can, I understand, invite almost anyone to a "hosted hunt". Saskachewan is supposedly tightening their regs. and while I have been invited to hunt Elk there on private ranchland for about 3 years, I just am not into going. Much of it is "fenced hunting" and not my cup of tea.

So, the Yukon does not offer a programme as generous as we do in BC and I am not certain what the NWT may offer other Canucks, but, we cannot get licences there until after two years residency. It's not "fair", but, that's life, eh.

Changes coming? Probably, but, more to benefit the Indians, Metis and Eskimos and NOT we Canadian taxpayers. Geez, sounds a bit like the "La Raza" crap where they fly their flag above the "Stars and Stripes"!

All this said, resource exploration-extraction in the "territories" is NOT going to diminish or be eliminated. If, you want to see what pristine wilderness is left, come now or soon as it will not last and cannot be "repaired".

Dewey, as usual the color and flare of your explanations leaves little to ones imagination!

Bottom line, if any Canadian living outside another of the Canadian provinces wants to hunt he does so in limited fashion with a "citizen" of that province or he does what the rest of us do, hire a GO? Is this correct? That really sucks man BUT thanks for that SECURE OIL! But never fear BHO will take care of me and you and everyone else in the world.

Thanks for the info and as usual the colorful asides!

Muygrande, whether it sucks or not really depends on one's perspective and mine is that there should be a major re-organization of all Canadian game and fish laws so that ALL Canadians, will have SOME chance to hunt BC and the "territories" as ordinary hunters, as in their "home" jurisdictions. This is only possible for those who have friends here under the current regs. and Stone's Sheep, Dall's Sheep, both Cali. and RM Bighorns are not available, unless the forthcoming regs. have changed this....which I doubt.

So, basically, if I want to hunt the Yukon, for example, I MUST hire a GO, even though my taxes help subsidize that jurisdiction. If, I am transfered, as a Canadian government employee, to the N.W.T., I MUST wait TWO years to mget a licence, but, a NWT or Yukon res. can move south to attend a BC tax-funded university or work and obtain a licence after a six month period.

I would like to see a system here, where ALL Canadians were governed by the SAME regs. in this respect, a six month or two year period, fine, but the same in every province-territory. I would also like to see a system of "draws" for "non-residents" more akin to that in some western states, where the actual hunter obtains say a Dall's Sheep licence and THEN perhaps hires a "guide". To be fair, I would set a percentage level of available "tags" aside for "non residents" and use a "points" system to apportion them, with preference given to Canadian citizens, then legal Canadian "landed immigrants" and then hunters from other nations.

This, would, IMO, tend to make sheep hunting here a LITTLE less costly and a bit more available to people from other nations...but, the Guide-Outfitters strongly oppose it and are not honouring the current agreement they signed recently here, with the BCWF and BC-MOE as to quotas, etc. Hence, anger and increasing conflict between resident hunters and GOs, which cannot but bode ill for "non-resident" hunters in the long term.

This also tends to increase hunt prices, IMO, as access to even the most remote parts of northern and western Canada is FAR easier now than it was when I first worked in the "territories" in '66. In northern BC, the development of roads, etc. is huge since I first worked there in '72 for our Forest Service and mineral exploration and petro-extraction is just booming.

I wish I were wrong, but, I cannot see massive areas of Canadian wilderness being preserved from mineral exploration anytime in the future. We DO have some northern "National Parks", certainly, but, all hunting is banned in them, well, except for aborigines and in Kluane, there are two sheep "trophies" auctioned per year, usually to hugely wealthy American hunters, but, no resident access.

So, that is how it is, I doubt it will improve from a HUNTING perspective and I have attempted to avoid any specific comments as to the situation I see evolving here concerning foreign hunting. I hope that you DO make it back to see that wilderness again and I have a couple of places in BC that I would suggest in a PM where some untouched, spectacular scenery and substantial Bighorn and RM Goat populations are to be found...and I like and trust the GO.

Cheers!

Getting back on topic. AKSheepHunter mentioned the Brooks Range in Alaska (oddly enough I met AKsheephunter in the mountains on my hunt, he is a hard hunter and knows what he talks about. Has one helluva son too!) I hunted with Cavner and Julian. They have a very high success rate and I can't say enough good things about my trip. Cavner and Julian Hunting

Here is mine:


I shot him on the 3rd (I think) day and most of the other guys tagged out in the first few days as well. If you stuck it out I really think you could find what you want.

Best of luck.

Beautiful ram.

OK, here's a picture of my kid. Makes a dad proud!



75 miles and 15 pounds later, found him on day 10. Mackenzies were tough, but fair.

Scott, ready to go yet?!

You guys are making me drool!

I will make a couple of suggestions here, the first is that since you say you are one of we old guys, this will probably be your one and only try for a Dall's Sheep. With that in mind, I would be inclined to ignore the cost factor, within your realistic limits, of course, and go with and where the chances for getting you the ram you dream of are best.

As you can see from the pix posted by JDB, the MacKenzies are pretty "easy" as mountains go and the spotting of a Dall's Sheep is MUCH easier than trying to find a grey Stone's Sheep in northern BC or a RM Bighorn in the Kootenays. So, even with the higher cost, I would be inclined to choose the NWT first and do your research CAREFULLY as to the outfitter you choose.

The main problem there is weather, once you are actually there and it can be pretty cold, even in August when I feel northern hunting is best, this from a resident's perspective and for specific reasons.

If, I lived where you do and had a good van, I would drive to the NWT, give yourself five days for comfort and then, I would bring home as much meat as could be flown out, using those heavyduty coolers called "Outfitter's" in Cabela's catalogues. No problem getting spare ice, drive through Alberta as gas is usually cheaper than in taxhell BC and you should have a great trip.

From my time in both territories, the Yukon is more beautiful, but, the NWT mountains are easier to hike through. There is a gentleman who sometimes posts here, "DonB" who has been there recently and he may chime in and help you.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
I wonder why there seems to be a major cost difference between hunting a Dall's Sheep in AK and one in the Yukon or NWT? It sure seems odd to me that essentially the same animal would cost say $12K to hunt in AK and $18K in Canada.

Anybody?

part of the reason? it is loud, burns jet fuel, and is legal (in the NT anyways)

besides that, the cost to stage out of Norman Wells on the east side of the mountains is staggering, even compared to Fairbanks. Staging from Ross River and up the North Canol is almost as bad.

Scott,
I'm not trying to take anything away from the Canadians, but for the price you pay to hunt the Mackenzies, you can hunt Dall sheep in the Brooks, plus take a Griz, caribou and wolf.

Storm GSP, couldn't have stated any better, you can get a ram on the first day, no doubt, and if you are looking for an exceptional ram they are there, if you have the time...you can find one. besides your retired anyway, so you have nothing but time. I was just in Jackson a month ago checking my house, and I shouldve tried to call you but I'm back in AK now. But if you want more info. PM me anytime........Chuck

I'm a new member, I have hunted with ramhead outfitters 3 times, before Stan I got skunked 2 times in the yukon for atotal of 26 backpacking days.I hunted 5 days and killed a 157 incher.We radioed base camp and Stan flew in and took me to an area to hunt mt.caribou.During the 12 hour wait that is required we spotted bull caribou laying on the ice fields and next day I shot a 396 bull. While packing out the caribou a wolf crossed our path. I added him to my pack load.My other hunts with Stan Simpson were successful and above average animals.He has a very high success rate because he does his own flying and hires good guides.Yes he uses a chooper now and it opens up more areas to hunt.Keep in mind that on horse hunts,horses wander off during the nite as their feeding and you might not get started hunting till noon.One tends to eat better on horse hunts and your energy level last longer.Backpack hunts if your over 40 are torture and it takes about a year of hard conditioning to be in sheep shape.Most backpack hunters play out at about 6 days in to a hunt and struggle to the end.2 years later their back at it again because the sheep fever grew worse.So talk with lots of sheep hunters ,join wild sheep foundation or grand slam-ovis club to get a idea of how you want to tackle your sheep hunt.

Have only hunted the mackenzie's so cant comment on Ak..... used makenzie Mtn outfitters and had an EXCEPTIONAL TIME... top notch outfit.....ITS ALL BACKPACK HUNTING..... no helo's...the potential for a great ram is there you just might have to work a BIT... would rec them without hesitation...most of the outfits in the makenzie mountains run dang close to 100%, if its a one time gig for you I'd go where your chance are the best... just my 2 cents....

"hvrhunter", tells us that ...backpack hunts if your over 40 are torture... and he gives VERY sound advice on conditioning for sheep hunting, which is relevant to ALL mountain hunting.

I will turn 64 at the end of next month and I still backpack hunt, admittedly not as fast or far as I used to. It CAN be done and both conditioning and using the right gear make a HUGE difference.

I have had friends who backpack hunted BIG Elk in the Kootenays of BC at agr 75 and the mountains there are FAR tougher than the MacKenzies.....motivation and determination make a big difference. So, it's "doable" and you should, IMHO, start getting ready now...I will PM more when I find out some dependable info.

www.yukonsheep.com

You might find cheaper....but not better.

Actually Mervyn's was my second choice when I decided on NWT with MacKenzie. Once I saw three or four grizz in NWT I had second thoughts for sure as they are off limits for non-res in NWT but can be taken in Yukon.

BC is best for a combo of a sheep and a Grizzly, they are now so numerous around many of the top northern Stone's Sheep camps, that hunters are not allowed to hike into some places un-escorted. We actually should kill MORE bears here as they cost a lot in "control" efforts every year, but, we have every whacko, pinko, limpwristed, shortdi.....well, you know, "conservation" organization on Earth setting up camp here......

So, we will not likely see an increase in Grizzly AAH, but, certain areas should need it.

Dewey, sounds like San Fran is moving North! Hunting northern BC sounds good EXCEPT I am no mountain climber as in crampons/ice ax etc. Had I wanted to climb Mt. Everest, etc. I would have chosen that INSTEAD OF hunting/fishing, etc. Isn't much of northern BC similar in terrain to SE Ak rather than the Alps?

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
www.yukonsheep.com

You might find cheaper....but not better.

Tendrams, you have a PM.

http://environmentyukon.gov.yk...tionnonresidents.php

in Yukon resident can guide non-resident but only the ones living in Canada.
around 100 licenses are issued every year and a Yukon resident can do it every two years.

you can be guided on moose, grizzly, caribou, black bear wolf and coyote not that bad ...

maybe you dont know the right person in yukon to be invited ...!!!!