Two NDP MPs broke party ranks to vote with the government Wednesday night in the final House of Commons vote in favour of scrapping the long-gun registry.

Bruce Hyer, MP for Thunder Bay-Superior North, and John Rafferty, MP for Thunder Bay-Rainy River, voted with the Conservative Party on a bill that will end the long-gun registration requirement.

Bill C-19 passed 159 to 130 and now goes to the Senate for another round of votes and committee hearings.

Rafferty and Hyer broke party ranks during a vote on the bill in November and were disciplined by interim leader Nycole Turmel at the time.

Turmel said Wednesday following a caucus meeting that "there will be consequences" again for any MPs who don't vote with their party.

She said the NDP has always been against abolishing the registry. She would not, however, commit to bringing it back if the NDP forms government in the next election. Turmel said the NDP will have a new leader after the March 24 convention.

"This will be discussed with the new leader and then the decision will be made," Turmel said. She encouraged the Quebec government to "move fast" to do what it can to maintain the data in the registry. Quebec's government wants to maintain its own registry once the federally managed one is gone and has threatened legal action.

Opposition urged to support bill

Public Safety Minister Vic Toews urged opposition MPs to vote with the government.

At a morning news conference to mark the occasion, he said MPs have a chance to "do the right thing" and abolish the registry.

"I want to take this opportunity to encourage them to vote in accordance with the wishes of their constituents rather than voting according to party lines," Toews said.

The public safety minister described the registry as a "billion-dollar boondoggle" created by the previous Liberal government and said money should be spent on more effective ways of cracking down on gun crime.

"It does nothing to help put an end to gun crimes nor has it saved one Canadian life," said Toews.

Supporters of the registry argue the opposite and have pleaded with the government to maintain the requirement to register long guns. Opposition MPs and proponents of the registry were surprised to learn when the bill was introduced in October that it not only seeks to lift the registration requirement for long guns, it provides for the destruction of records in the existing database.

"Tonight our government will vote to put an end to the waste, and again, I would encourage all members in the House to do the same," he said.

Toews was joined at the news conference by his parliamentary secretary, Conservative MP Candice Hoeppner, whose private member's bill in 2009 to abolish the registry was narrowly defeated.

She blamed opposition MPs for the defeat, saying they "caved in to their political bosses instead of standing up for their constituents."

The Manitoba MP went on to name NDP MPs Charlie Angus, Niki Ashton, Alex Atamanenko, Nathan Cullen, Dennis Bevington, Claude Gravelle and Carol Hughes as MPs whose constituents want the registry gone.

Hoeppner warned that if they don't vote in accordance with their constituents' wishes they risk not being re-elected. She said it was important to name these MPs in order to hold them accountable for their decisions.


When will the data be destroyed?

Public Safety Minister Vic Toews was asked during Wednesday's press conference when the data would be destroyed. Here is the exchange with a reporter:

Q: Do you know when exactly the data will be destroyed after the bill is adopted?

Toews: All I can indicate is that we have made a commitment to get rid of the registry and that includes disposing of the data.

Q: How long will it take, do you know?

Toews: That's all I can say at this point.

Q: You don’t know?

Toews: Yes I know.

Q: How long is it?

Toews: As soon as it's possible after the gun registry is in force.

Q: But what's possible?

Toews: We'll see

"I urge all members from the opposition to review the facts, to listen to their constituents and in particular, to listen to Canadians from rural parts of Canada, from remote parts of Canada, law-abiding Canadians who use firearms for legitimate purposes, and remain law-abiding Canadians," she said.

She accused the opposition of wanting tougher laws for farmers, hunters and sport shooters and of opposing tougher laws for "violent criminals and repeat offenders who prey on our children."

Quebec MP Maxime Bernier was also at the news conference with Toews and Hoeppner and was asked whether the encouragement for opposition MPs to vote on the bill in accordance with their constituents also applies to Conservative MPs from Quebec, given the province's position on the registry.

Celebration planned to mark the vote

Bernier said his riding, and those of his Tory colleagues in Quebec, support the government's efforts to abolish it.

"We are very sensitive to Quebecers' feelings on this, and I think most Quebecers want this government to have legislative measures that are effective in fighting crime, and that's what we're doing," he responded.

Bernier said that Wednesday night after the vote there will be a party with colleagues to mark the bill's passage in the House of Commons and to celebrate the government keeping a campaign promise. He didn't mention where it would be held or who is expected to attend.

Other Conservatives played down the party and said it was a small gathering for Hoeppner and some supporters.

Turmel said the decision to hold a party shows arrogance and is insulting to victims of gun violence.

Interim Liberal Leader Bob Rae agreed, telling reporters it is "inappropriate" for Conservatives to be in a celebratory mood.

"I think it's a big mistake for the Conservative Party ... to assume that all Canadians share their sense that this is a cause for celebration," he said.

He said his caucus would be voting in support of the registry.

The Coalition for Gun Control issued a statement Wednesday saying victims are "outraged" that the bill is about to take another step closer to becoming law. It also said it wouldn't give up its fight against Bill C-19.

How many more times and steps is this going to have to get through to be gone.

Three readings in the senate and then Royal Assent. I suspect it could be another month or more. Depends on how the Liberal senators want to play things out.

another nail in the gun registry's coffen thank goodness its finaly gonna die the liberals are gonna drag this out as long as possible and bilk it for as much $$$$$ as possible befor it dies the night it dose how im breaking out the 600$ bottle of scotch finding my self the finest smoke that be had and celebrating the death of the biggest pos waste of money in canadian tax payer history

quote:

Originally posted by 700 nitro:
another nail in the gun registry's coffen thank goodness its finaly gonna die the liberals are gonna drag this out as long as possible and bilk it for as much $$$$$ as possible befor it dies the night it dose how im breaking out the 600$ bottle of scotch finding my self the finest smoke that be had and celebrating the death of the biggest pos waste of money in canadian tax payer history

hope you ll have more bottle for the next coming this end of registry was just the start ...

all the best.

the senete is basicly powerless there more of a review board last night was the death of it but i will hold off on the scotch untill it has passed its final reading and when it dose im calling the the 1800 fire amrs number and singing and celebrating and im gonna call my cheif fire amrs officer for the area and laugh at her becuase her job will no longer be needed thank god trust me after its passing last night it has made me a very happy person

quote:

Originally posted by 700 nitro:
the senete is basicly powerless there more of a review board last night was the death of it but i will hold off on the scotch untill it has passed its final reading and when it dose im calling the the 1800 fire amrs number and singing and celebrating and im gonna call my cheif fire amrs officer for the area and laugh at her becuase her job will no longer be needed thank god trust me after its passing last night it has made me a very happy person

Ah the Cheif Firearm Officers' jobs are secure. They still have to administer the rest of our draconian gun laws.

keeping fingers crossed here

oh yeah i forgot about that oh well ill still sing and dance and w/e else on the 1800 number since i know they will be toast. as for the cheif firems officer for each area sucks they count just ditch them to since they dont serve any kind of real pupose other than to fuck with law abiding people

heck it took me 3 months and 21 phone calls and 3 faxes to remove 3 guns off my record i sold over 5 years ago.i was one very impressed individual at the time.......once the gun regitry gose for good i have 40,000 im spending on guns the very next day...

Whoop whoop!!

And to all the queerbecers who wanna keep a system that wasted billions, and had no part in protecting anyone...go suck a lemon!!

As for Nicole Turmel, she can suck my hairy nuts...the only reason she got elected in her riding is because it's full of those who'd rather the remainder of the province work to pay her constituents welfare, socialist biotch!!

Bob Rae is just pissed that the Lieberals lost some of the control they gained during their last rein of terror at the helm, as if they had their way, no Canadians would be able to own firearms.

You can bet I'll be celebrating with a nice glass of rye & a big old cigar the day C-19 is given royal ascent!!

A lot of us south of the border well be celebrating with you

And a few west of the border as well. I,m from Canada, I,ve hated that piece of shit registry from the day they brought it in. Not real fond of Liberals, now that I think about it.
Yeah. They managed to shut down a few small business,s with that one.

Hopefully they get that POS shut down, scrapped, dead and buried. Be a good start..

Gentlemen Don't get too carried away. We have only won a small battle. The war against stupidity will go on for a long time yet.There are far too many ass holes like Alan Rock that will be ready to draft up more stupid laws as soon as they get into a position of power. Now more than ever we need to show responsible gun ownership and teach kids about safe handling of firearms and responsible attitudes.Its far too easy for a kid to get into trouble with drugs and guns and that is the shit that gets all the media attention. Unfortunatly this happens on both sides of the 49 th parrallel.Whether it be competative shooting sports that could take a kid to the Olympics or just that a kid out to a duck pond next fall we all have to help the positive things happen.

Does this mean no more fee's to bring guns into Canada hunting ?
If so I will start hunting in Canada again!

quote:

Originally posted by snowman:
Gentlemen Don't get too carried away. We have only won a small battle. The war against stupidity will go on for a long time yet.There are far too many ass holes like Alan Rock that will be ready to draft up more stupid laws as soon as they get into a position of power. Now more than ever we need to show responsible gun ownership and teach kids about safe handling of firearms and responsible attitudes.Its far too easy for a kid to get into trouble with drugs and guns and that is the shit that gets all the media attention. Unfortunatly this happens on both sides of the 49 th parrallel.Whether it be competative shooting sports that could take a kid to the Olympics or just that a kid out to a duck pond next fall we all have to help the positive things happen.

Better keep that in mind. As I recall, when Dion was Liberal leader, they wanted to ban handguns entirely. Funny, was from Quebec, wasn't he? They or the Dip Shits ever get in power and we'll be facing the same or worse.

Grizz

Coyote wacker Most of the problems with bringing firearms into Canada from the US are related to US laws about exporting such goods.For example you can call Brownells and ask to order items from their catalog . If you don't have an importers license they will not even sell you a set of scope bases.Just try to order from any of the big mail order places and its the same thing. So much for "Free Trade"

hes right 90% of the problems with getting stuff into canada stems from us papr work places like midway usa wont even sell to canadians huntingtons is the last of the big american places that will evenexport to canada and even there they will divide the boxes all under 100$ the more you order the more of a bitch in shipping(in some cases quadruping the shipping cost) it is becuse with out a export permit all boxes have to be under 100$ with brass bullets ect....

not only that but ever since i seen the artical where 2 british teens were sent back to britan for writing on there face book "gonna go destroy the us" they sent both the teens home once they landed on american soil mean while all the two guys were doing it going to the usa for a big party... the usa has been getting absolutly insane with it laws and regs to the point of gestapo ill buy from europe if i have to. its to bad to the usa was such a great country and its going to hell in a hand basket faster than a fat man eating a cupcake.

Don,t know if things have changed much in the last year or two in regards to import/export, but you might try Graf and Sons..
Seems like a couple years ago, they would still ship to Canada.
Yeah, used to think ( when I was a wee lad, just learning to read and write, and keep my crayons safe), that the government was actualy lookin out for our best interests. Ahh, to be young and dumb and naive again..

Think watching Grant Devine do his handiwork in Saskatchewan cured me of that.

Nobody is charged fee to bring guns to the U.S. for hunting or shooting sports.

I live on the water and I can see Canada from my house, but will not go fishing or boating there any more with the Canadian Immigration laws.
They want me to call Immigration to let them know I have entered Canadian Waters. Then go to a port of there choice to be inspected that is up to 15 miles by water each way. But I'am going fishing and never touching land.
At least when you enter U.S. waters you only need to report when you anchor or touch land.
Canadian Immigration have a new boat that they bought with your tax dollars, 32' long with 4-300HP outboard engines to chase down Americans crossing the border. It probably burns at least 200 gallons of gas in a 8 hour shift.

Ya but it doesn't require getting your paperwork in 6-weeks ahead of time and often purchasing a hunting licence that you won't use to get your gun into Canada like it does into the U.S. Neither system is great.....nor free.

6 weeks is a nice turn around iv had it take me closer to 10 to get my atf forms back..... also coyote i wouldnt be pointing the finger or blaming any about about extra spending the usa has boats worth way more than what he have bought and there armed with double/quadurpal 50 cal machine guns and i mean shit every country has over spent at one point in time or another and the usa is the ultimate king of over spending so hold your tounge befor making comments like that is canada not allowed to make or purchase shit to protect it boarders? we dont even have a tenth of the military equipment we once had our military and police forces are a fucking joke and you have the balls to call us on a few fucking boats i tell you what bro shit in your hat and pull it over your ears

What is in the water in BC? First Dewey now 700 nitro.

I guess what 700 nitro is trying to say is "the pot calling the kettle black" attitude will get you nowhere up here. Just the fact that you can walk up to the border and get your temp licence is a way easier process to come to Canada than it is for us to go to the US.

sorry ill tone down my last post a bit i got just a bit pissed off with the comment in his post and the typical point the finger at some 1 else crap when they should be looking at them selves first

If I had my way we would be traveling back and forth both ways with firearms.

No questions asked and just proscuting the bad guys who use them to committ crimes.

Dealing with border crossing,s is a pain in the ass plain and simple. Whichever side of the border you,re on,Canadian or American.
And either side, government agencies have perfected the art of pissing up a rope. we get to support em with our tax dollars in that endevour.
When it comes to getting rid of the long gun registry, that is a step in the right direction. Start working towards the right for an average joe to carry an average hand gun after that. Get more kids off shooting. More voters with guns.
Or, as they used to say when a baby was born in Canada, congratulations, its a tax payer!
I was born and raised in Canada, got to see some of the rights and freedoms I grew up with slowly go away. That can happen any where.

I compliment the two MPs who "broke ranks" with their party..

Thunder Bay to Rainy River is North of Minnesota, so it is definitely outdoorsman country...

I am sure both were following the desires of their constituents instead of towing party lines..

I was a resident of Alberta for 5 years and crossed the Kingsgate Border Crossing in BC multiple times per year to go to my place just 60 miles south in Idaho. Only had two issues in dozens of trips, many with firearms, and they both were with the US guys while trying to go home. Never a problem heading north. In fact, when heading up to BC through the same crossing this past spring to hunt bears the Canadian border folks recognized me and me them and we had a nice chat about what been going on for the past two years, since I last crossed. A pleasant bunch at that crossing.

I will add my 2 cents worth. I have around 85 U.S clients come up and hunt with me every year. Not one has complained about getting their shotgun up here to go hunting birds. Not one. They download the forms off my website and fill them out before they get to Canada. When the Canadian officer asks him to sign the bottom the client does and pays his $25 registration fee and off he goes. I hear of more complaints from my hunters about what forms are needed to get back into their own country more than anything. To come to Canada it takes you 5 min of paperwork and a small fee. Easy as pie.

Look how many Canadians fly through the U.S to go on an african safaris. Not many and I bet it has to do with travelling through the country with guns. Too much hassle in the U.S to get your gun there or through it.

I have flown into Ontario with guns for competition and hunting without any issues.

Again I hear more complaints from local canadian shooters than anybody else

perhaps they have higher expetation from their fellow countryman ..................

Perhaps they do have higher expectations of their countrymen.

One can certainly hope so.

Despite spending a whopping $2.7 billion on creating and running a long-gun registry, Canadians never reaped any benefits from the project. The legislation to end the program finally passed the Parliament on Wednesday. Even though the country started registering long guns in 1998, the registry never solved a single murder. Instead it has been an enormous waste of police officers’ time, diverting their efforts from patrolling Canadian streets and doing traditional policing activities.

Gun-control advocates have long claimed that registration is a safety issue, and their reasoning is straightforward: If a gun has been left at a crime scene and it was registered to the person who committed the crime, the registry will link the crime gun back to the criminal.


Nice logic, but reality never worked that way. Crime guns are very rarely left at the crime scene, and when they are left at the scene, they have not been registered — criminals are not stupid enough to leave behind a gun that’s registered to them. Even in the few cases where registered crime guns are left at the scene, it is usually because the criminal has been seriously injured or killed, so these crimes would have been solved even without registration.

The statistics speak for themselves. From 2003 to 2009, there were 4,257 homicides in Canada, 1,314 of which were committed with firearms. Data provided last fall by the Library of Parliament reveals that the weapon was identified in fewer than a third of the homicides with firearms, and that about three-quarters of the identified weapons were not registered. Of the weapons that were registered, about half were registered to someone other than the person accused of the homicide. In just 62 cases — that is, only 4.7 percent of all firearm homicides — was the gun registered to the accused. As most homicides in Canada are not committed with a gun, the 62 cases correspond to only about 1 percent of all homicides.

To repeat, during these seven years, there were only 62 cases — nine a year — where it was even conceivable that registration made a difference. But apparently, the registry was not important even in those cases. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Chiefs of Police have not yet provided a single example in which tracing was of more than peripheral importance in solving a case.

The problem isn’t just with the long-gun registry. The data provided above cover all guns, including handguns. There is no evidence that, since the handgun registry was started in 1934, it has been important in solving a single homicide.

Looking at just long guns shows that since 1997, there have been three murders in which the gun was registered to the accused. The Canadian government doesn’t provide any information on whether those three accused individuals were convicted.

Nor is there any evidence that registration reduced homicides. Research published last year by McMaster University professor Caillin Langmann in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence confirmed what other academic studies have found: “This study failed to demonstrate a beneficial association between legislation and firearm homicide rates between 1974 and 2008.” There is not a single refereed academic study by criminologists or economists that has found a significant benefit from gun laws. A recent Angus Reid poll indicates that Canadians already understand this, with only 13 percent believing that the registry has been successful.

Second reading of the bill to kill the Long Gun Registry is scheduled for the senate today. One more after that! It looks like the Liberal senators aren't going to try and stand in the way of it passing.

Update ?

Solomon Friedman's testimony to Senate Committee http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJICEaT7Mog

Canuck32, Thanks for posting that youtube clip! That was refreshing to hear the logic and thought behind that address.
On another note, has the final reading of C-19 in the Senate been done, and if so, what was the outcome? I may need to purchace another rifle in celebration.
Regards,
Graham

Senate is voting at 5:30 EST to finish registry.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills
No. 1.
STANDING VOTE DEFERRED TO 5:30 P.M., PURSUANT TO RULE 39(4)(a) AND THE BELLS TO SOUND AT 5:15 P.M. FOR FIFTEEN MINUTES (Rule 66(3))
April 2, 2012—Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Lang, seconded by the Honourable Senator Tkachuk, for the third reading of Bill C-19, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the Firearms Act.