I was wondering what your thoughts were on this.

What is it about wolves that some people have this fascination for them that, in my opinion, is absurd?

I will give you a couple of examples:

I say to a neighbor of mine," I heard the wolves killed your dog tied to your back door, last winter." She replies," Well, I don't think the wolves killed her(the dog) She was getting old and she may have died first. I think this is why the wolves came and ate her."
(Note: They put the dog out when they went to town for super and there was a bloody mess when they came back the same evening.)

Last winter, when wolves killed 9 dogs in one paticular Whitehorse subdivision, The game branch set snares for the wolves. 1600 people signed a petition to stop the gov't from snaring wolves. That is 5% of our population.
Most of these dogs were tied up at the house. There were other areas outside Whitehorse that were hit hard by wolves last winter as well.

A few years ago, I had killed some wolves that were causing a problem for a neighbor. although I had the support of the game branch, other neighbors got all riled up. This group held meetings with the game branch to have me stopped or whatever. It ended when the ring leader of this group open her mouth and said, "He shot my pet, I would feed him at my back door. He didn't bother anyone." It ended as soon as it begun when she was informed that she was going to be charged with feeding wildlife.

The agriculture area that I live in is getting hit by the wolves this winter. Several neighbors have lost dogs and one neighbor has lost 5 sheep and a goat. All within 100 yards of his house.
The Yukon game farm lost 2 Dall's sheep rams last week. They are inside a high fence.
I am hated by half of my neighbors for shooting wolves in my area. Others call me when they are having problems with wolves.
One neighbor, was not happy about me shooting wovles, got his favorite dog ate this winter. He was throwing meat scraps out for the coyotes.
(This same guy claims that ravens eat 80% of what the wolves kill)

I had put down a horse for a neighbor and I put it in my yard not far from the house in November. The 1100-1200lb. horse was completely eaten in 4 days. A few bones, a strip of hide and that was all that was left. Yet, some of my neighbors complain that they don't see wolves or coyotes around anymore since I have been around.
I have been leaving the wolves and coyotes alone for now. Let them continue eating dogs and livestock for a while.

The latest wolf excuse: "There is not enough snow for them up in the mountains for them to be able to catch their normal prey and they are having a hard time. That is why they are hunting around here."

While I agree, A wolf is a majestic looking animal(trophy), what makes them so much better than a coyote or bear or your family pet for that matter?


Daryl

Daryl
You got me,I don't get it.It's that stupid
a fish is a frog is a dog is a boy mentality.
FUBAR

I get a real kick out of both sides. The whole "baby seal" mentality with wolves (and G-bears for that matter!!) is absolutely rediculous, and I shake my head just as often at those guys that want to eradicate every wolf from the planet (or at least their own neck of the woods) because the wolves are eating all of "their" elk, deer, etc, etc.

I honestly don't get the thinking on either side. I like wolves about the same as I like Moose, Elk, Sheep, G-bears, etc, etc. Wilderness wouldn't be wild without them. But, manage one, manage them all.

Cheers,
Canuck

Canuck
I agree...wilderness would not be the same w/o
wolves.One of my fondess memories was on a solo
bou hunt in Alaska.I killed a bou @ 1 mile from
camp.Late that night a pack of wolves found it
and sang a "song to the caribou".It was awesome.
As good as a loon on a lake or a bull elk in
the mountains.I only wish it was day light so
I could of shot one.

And as bad as the Yellowstone ecosystem has
been hammered by them lately.There are some
benefits from the wolves...ie some over browsed
habitat is beginning to recover.

But re-introducing the wolf was a ploy of anti
hunting groups.Predictable rumors on how
the ecosystem is/will be in balance and
sport hunting is/will be no longer needed will get louder.And with it the lobby to "protect" the wolf from ANY management.This I see,is the catalyst for dislike of the wolf in Yellowstone.In addition to landowners who are now forced to live with policy set by people thousands of miles away.And the damages to
private property because of that policy.

To quote WCF's...paraphrased
"wolves,I like wolves,medium rare."

I think if/when wolves are managed in the
lower 48 the "hate" will lessen some.

Wolves, bears, eagles, whatever...

Some wildlife is more highly treasured than others, and it is usually the 'cute' or 'majestic' factor.

Tell someone you are going moose hunting, and they are OK with it...Moose are funny looking.

Tell someone you are going bear hunting and they say "Isn't that illegal? How could you shoot a bear? What has it ever done to you.."

I think wolves are beautiful, and to see them in action is fascinating, but I fine the rest of wildlife beautiful and fascinating, too...

I do draw the line at Rattus Norvegicus, which are all over the Lower Mainland, but, this whole thing is just a way to discredit hunters and enhance the treasuries of the bullshit enviro groups such as Greenpiss, Western Canada Whacko Committee, Sierra Flub and Puketa.

I have seen, in many years of long term solo bush living, exactly FIVE Wolves in B.C. and Alberta combined; this was in those areas that are supposed to have ravening packs of them eating every other animal that breathes. If, Wolves are humanely shot when they begin to enter human habitation and are culled by hunting them, they will not be a problem in respect of game populations and still will be there to add their unique dimension to wilderness.

It is mind bogeling. I have experienced some of this to. "How can you shoot that beatuiful deer or elk? In conversation one day, and the next week the same person has nothing but praise for a pack of wolves killing, by running and crippling more than they can eat, and actaully eating the animal while it is still alive.

Same with bison hunts here, it's ok for my tribe to go out and kill an entire herd of bison, but one "hunter" steps out with a rifle and he is attacked!

I shot my first wolf last tuesday and most of the non hunting people I tell are pretty shocked. Lots of them think that it is or should be illegal. The people I tell who hunt normally dont care, I've even had a few requests to take them out next time we go.

Brett

I was on a moose hunt in Northern Ontario a few years ago and right at full light a wolf pack came about 70 yards from me. I was on a craggy outcropping, scanning a meadow where I had seen moose the day before the season opened. There were 7 in the pack. I think what most amazed me was their color, mostly brown, black with gray undersides. They were big beggars, appearing to be about 90lbs at least, and they were moving at a steady trot, obviously on to something, probably the moose I had seen the previous day. Old dummy was so mesmerized by the sight it never even dawned on me to shoot them. I could have probably taken two easily enough. There's certainly no shortage of them up there. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Yukoner

Reading your post brings back memories of an aunt and uncle that lived on the shores of a lake-(the name escapes me) about 20 miles out of Whitehorse 25 years ago. They had much the same problem as you do today-they lost pets to wolves, had wolves roaming around their yards at night. They did much the same as you did and had problems with neighbors complaining about it.

You should have told the lady that was the head of the group against you to leave her pet tied up outside for a couple of nights then see if she felt the same way about wolves.

Cheers
Shootist

quote:

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If, Wolves are humanely shot when they begin to enter human habitation and are culled by hunting them, they will not be a problem in respect of game populations and still will be there to add their unique dimension to wilderness.

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Exactly!

We have a responsibility to ensure that our pets and livestock aren't easy targets for wolves.
Wolves are always passing through at one time or anouther. It is just thier natural cycle that they move around hunting to survive. What we are finding is that every now and then some wolves decide to stay. Same as bears. Most just pass through. Some decide to stay and take the easy prey.
These are the ones that we have to manage. I feel that is our responsibilty as well.

Opponents of wolf control say (obviously) that wolf control does not work.
Why?
They say you eliminate or cull some wolves today and a few years later you will have the same problem. So, therefore, wolf control does not work.

I say these people are pretty lame. How stupid do they think we are? Almost everything needs to be managed in one way or anouther. My relationships, finances, farm, etc.
I always see bear and wolf tracks. But, when they start kill'n in the yard and I am not talking about the back 40, I mean, In the yard.
I am going to get them.
I realize that in couple of years, we will have the same problem with prededation. I don't mind because I will look after it then as well.

Daryl

Shootist,

Lake lebarge or Marsh Lake?


Daryl

quote:

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Originally posted by Yukoner:
Shootist,

Lake lebarge or Marsh Lake?


Daryl

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Lake lebarge

To a degree I can understand why some people dislike the idea of killing wolves.

I think a large part of it is down to the fact that Wolves are so closely associated with the domestic dog.

Add to that all the wildlife programs that show wolves as highly intelligent and very socially interactive animals that hunt/kill simply because that is what nature designed them to do, and I can understand the empathy that exists for wolves.

To be honest I am not sure that I would want to hunt a wolf for the very same reasons.

Having said all that, I do recognise that just as with any other animal in certain situations they need to be managed; not wiped out, but managed..And that management should be based on sound biologolical/ecological principles, not "fuzzy feelings"..

I also agree that wolves have become a political tool in the anti hunting debate and that too I strongly dissagree with.

I have never heard a pack of wolfs howl in the wilderness, but I hope to one day. I also can't help feeling the wilderness would be a poorer place with out them...

Regards,

Pete

quote:

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Having said all that I do recognise that just as with any other animal in certain situations they need to be managed; not wiped out, but managed..And that management should be based on sound biologolic/ecological principles not "fuzzy feelings"..

I also agree that wolves have become a political tool in the anti hunting debate too and that too I strongly dissagree with.

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Pete, we'll get along just fine!

quote:

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I have never heard a pack of wolfs howel in the wilderness, but I hope to one day.

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We'll have to work on that for you.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

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We'll have to work on that for you.

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Chris,

I must confess I would love to do some sort of backpack hunt in a mountain wilderness area of either the States or Canada...its just a pity that from a visitors perspective, hunting over there is tied up in so much red tape and the additional costs it seems to generate! :-(

Regards,

Pete

Pete,

Where there's a will, there's a way. We will have to consider the possibilities over a sundowner or two.

Maybe I'll bring some pics to tease you with.

Cheers,
Chris

That is exactly what I have told Pete in various communications for a couple of months now. There can be ways that a fellow "soldier of the Queen" as they sang in the 'Glorious Days of the Raj" could hunt in B.C.; just get your airfare and we can maybe work out something----especially if I can get you to carry the heavy pack!

That's the one with the BEER in it!

Its pretty darn easy, actually, and fares from LHR to Calgary are not that bad!

I'll have him convinced by June 8, I am sure!

Cheers,
Canuck

What happens on June 8??

Pete, having woves serenade you to sleep while you are snug in your sleeping bag is a truly wonderful thing..

Until you actually WANT to get to sleep and the damn things won't shut up!!

Is there a way to get Pete hunting here without an outfitter's cost? Maybe you should marry a Canadian for convenience. I nominate Canucks sister!

(I'm not even sure if he has a sister, though!

I think we're still reaping the results of the writings of Farley Mowatt. This man took a few observations and a great many lies (which he later admitted to) and wove the myth of the noble but harmless wolf in several books.

Most people close to the wilderness are well aware that the picture he painted is false, however, many others are ready to deny the evidence right in front of them (like your neighbour) and continue to espouse his myths. People who live away from wolf populations still treat is lies as gospel.

I don't know if there's any solution to this problem, since lies seem to have an inertia of their own that can't be dispelled by the truth alone.

Rick, that is so true.

I always wonder how the eco-weenies would feel about watching wolves make a kill.

I (and many here) have seen wolves in action.

While the whole process is fascinating, it could be described as "not for the weak of stomach."

When you see wolves take down an animal, and begin to eat it's innnards, while it is still very much alive, you really get a feel for how "nice and wonderful" nature is...

Gatehouse,

Pete E and I will be in RSA together (hunting with JJHACK) for 10 days, ending June 8.

There is only one way for a non-resident alien to hunt in BC without involving an outfitter. A resident can get a permit to accompany for a direct relative.

Otherwise, you have to use an outfitter. Depending on who you know, etc, that can vary widely in price. Nuff said?

Cheers,
Canuck

Gotcha!

You're going to Africa again?

That's awesome! I really must get my shit togehter and get over there...So liottle time off these days, though...

Gatehouse,

I would marry Cunuck never mind his sister if it meant a chance of hunting Dall sheep!

Cunuck, kutenay,

It really won't take much persauding to come over, just a case of saving a bit first..

Regards,

Pete

Pete, it is legal in Canada now! You might be on to something! Get married, have your "significant other" take you sheep hunting and then divorce the bastard!

Man if you ever want to hear the truth about wolves ask someone from Vancouver Island that likes to hunt deer.
In a matter of a few years they effectively wiped out the Blacktail population here.
No wolves lotsa deer, lots of wolves no deer.... pretty simple is'nt it.
That was in the 70's, we now have some huntable populations if you don't mind hunting like hell all season long to spot the odd Buck. Before the wolves took over I often saw 20+ deer in a mornings hunt. Driving to the hunting area we would see deer eyes the whole way there in the dark along the roads. A few years ago I returned to one of my old favourite spots hunted for 3 days and saw one doe!
The deer now have pressure from Bears,Cougars, Wolves, weather, road kill and Hunters. Throwing the wolves into the mix just tipped the balance a little to far and now we have barely huntable populations of deer wherever the wolves remain established.
But having said that I believe there is a place for them but only if you manage for ungulates not wolves. Theres the rub our wildlife branch is politically paralyzed so anything of a cull nature won't happen.
So its a sad deal here, the fantastic hunting of my youth is in the toilet and nobody except a few trappers can do much about it.

quote:

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Originally posted by kudu56:
Pete, it is legal in Canada now! You might be on to something! Get married, have your "significant other" take you sheep hunting and then divorce the bastard!

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Yeah..

Same sex marriage is allowed in parts of Canada now..

But Pete...

I've never met Canuck, but I am pretty sure he's NOT into that sort of thing!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Gatehouse:
I've never met Canuck, but I am pretty sure he's NOT into that sort of thing!!

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I do like sheep a lot. Stones, bighorns, dalls....

I might be happy but I ain't gay. My undies say "Exit ONLY" on the back!

Cheers,
Canuck

Hmmm...

Are we "off topic" yet?

Much like seeing grandma naked I think we
got a little more info than needed.

quote:

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Originally posted by Gatehouse:
Hmmm...

Are we "off topic" yet?

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Somebody call the moderator!