I have a Great Uncle who died in France in 1918. Is there a site that would expand on this?

Mickey1 Try here .

http://www.2learn.ca/mapset/Enjoy/Remember/RemGen.html amoung the links at that site is this one .

http://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/003/008/099/003008-disclaimer....s/books/remember.htm


PM sent.

Another site is the one listing war graves. It will dislay the grave site and plot number if you can enter the name, initial year of death, citizenship etc.

http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/search.aspx

Murph

Thank you for your help.

Mickey1

Canadian valor in WW 1 is known to all Americans who have read history. (My father served in France in WW 1 and was a liason officer to British units. He told us about Canadians) I'm glad that there are posters who can point this Canadian to the proud history of his ancestors)

Mickey,

If you find out any more about your Great Uncle wartime service, I would be very interested to hear about it..The Canadians had a reputation for producing fine soldiers and its a reputation that continues to this day...

Regards,

Pete

One of the little points about WWI concerning Canadian and American soldiers is that General "Black Jack" Pershing, officer commanding the American Expeditionary Force specifically requested a favour from General Sir Arthur Currie, G.O.C. Canadian Corps with the approval of Field Marshall Earl Haig, Commander of Imp. Forces in "Flanders". This was to have Canadian officers assigned to American units to train the Yanks as they had never encountered anything like Flanders; the Canadians had beaten the best troops that the Germans-Austro-Hungarians had thrown against us, every single time. This was done to the benefit of all concerned as the infusion of Americans undoubtedly had a great deal to do with Von Ludendorff's decision to surrender after Canadians broke the Hindenburg Line and the magnificent British armoured victory at Cambrai.

Boy, those of ue alive today don't realize how very fortunate we are in that we have not had to face what our forbearers did in both World Wars, thank God. However, I am not too confident that this will continue, given the situation concerning terrorists and drug lords.

I am very proud to be a Canadian and of my relatives who voluntarily participated in both wars as well as of every other brave Canuck who volunteered. But, I deplore our government who has allowed our military to wither into a tiny force and who sends our people into harm's way in rusty junk such as Iltis vehicles which get them killed. I have more respect for ANY honest soldier than almost any politician I can think of.....I bet that's a pretty common feeling here!

Currie would appear to have been one of the most under rated officers of the entire war. Some very interesting info on him regarding the Vimy and Passchendale campaigns. Developed the walking barrage, small unit training so individuals knew theie specific objectives. Uncanny ability to forecast casualties.



Kute you should get out of them there hills more often. The Canucks in Afghabistan are using G wagons now. Out local paper had a good spread on the latest roadside bombing. The front end of the patrol vehicle was basically torn off and the 2 injuries consisted of a brokrn foot and ankle for one and a broken leg for the 2nd guy. A third escaped injury.


http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/12/12/afghan_cda051212.html

and

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/12/14/Soldiers-return-051214.html


I can't find the pics of the vehicle from the other side.

Yeah, I know that they now have Gelindewagens, but, they STILL do not have the tools to do the job or enough people. I favour a proper military force of well-equipped, highly trained, extremely patriotic and motivated Canucks to assert our sovereignity throughout our territory.

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:
I have a Great Uncle who died in France in 1918. Is there a site that would expand on this?

If your Grandfather was a soldier from the Commonwealth you should be able to find some information at the Commonwealth War Graves Commission

A few links that might help you:


http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/020106_e.html

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=colle...889&CFTOKEN=48711442

You might want to also take a look at the Books of Remembrance, they are as aptly described below:

The Books of Remembrance contain the names of Canadians who fought in wars and died either during or after them. All the books are kept in the Memorial Chamber located in the Peace Tower on Parliament Hill. The purpose of creating a site that displays these books on the Internet is to make them more accessible to the public. Quite aptly named are these testaments to Canada's past, for by their very title they remind us to never forget the foundations of courage on which Canada is built.

This link will take you to the pages of the Books of Remembrance, simply click on the picture of the Book of the First World War, choose a year, and continue.

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=collections/books/listing

Copies of the pages may be ordered from this link:

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=collections/books/book_form

Another link to pages that might interest you:

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=colle...889&CFTOKEN=48711442


Lynn D

With Murph's help I found him.

August Hermanson

Born in 1893

Died 6 Nov. 1917 Apparently at Passchendale

Pvt. Canadian Infantry, 31st Infantry Battalion: Alberta Overseas Battalion

Buried in Ypres (Menin Gate) Belgium

I am still looking for some more information but considering I did not even know he existed until Christmas I am happy. He was My Father's Father's Brother.

I want to thank everyone here for there advise and interest. Thanks especially to Murph who gave me much needed directions.

That was at the beginning of the final assault on Passchendaele Ridge; the "Iron Sixth" Brigade of the Second Canadian Division being the soldiers who took Passchendaele when NO other British or French troops, not even the legendary ANZACS, had been able to do it for nearly six months.

My maternal grandfather was an officer with the 21st, Eastern Ontario Battalion of the Fourth Brigade and was very severely wounded in one leg and lost one of his lungs to the gas from the German counter-attack on Nov. 10, after Passchendaele had been taken by largely British Columbian troops.

This was the battle fought in the worst conditions of that terrible war. After it was finally over, a journalist interviewed Von Ludendorff, a man famous for his mental and physical toughness and Prussian "Junkers" reticence and pride. Even he, after this hellish battle, said, "it was no longer human experience at all, it was mere unspeakable agony". The next time that someone mocks the Canadian contribution to both wars, think about that.

You should be enormously proud of your ancestor's role at Passchendaele; this was the turning point of WWI and I think that having a relative who fought in Canadian uniform there (and they were ALL volunteers) is akin to being descended from those who fought on the Plains of Abraham or at Queenston Heights or Lundie's Lane. This is something that the curse of "multiculturalism" can never tarnish.

kutenay,

Some time back, I remember being shown a street in Winnipeg: 'Valour Road' (or Avenue!)
Two neighbours there volunteered for WW1 and both won the Victoria Cross.

There were actually three V.C. recipients who lived on Pine St. in the 'Peg during WWI. They were Corp. Clarke, Sgt.-Major Hall, both of whom were k.i.a. and Lt. Shankland, who survived the war. It was due to these heroes that the street was re-named Valour Road.

I stand corrected!

...even more impressive than I remembered!

kutenay:

Thanks for an informative and interesting post. Somewheres I read that the troops in WW1 (and, sadly, I guess in all wars) "were lions -led by donkeys". The remark was NOT directed against all Allied officers but against people like Sir John French and (most notable of all) Sir Douglas Haig. It was British officers like these that gave our General Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell, a life long dislike of British officers. He had watched them sacrifice lives at places like Passendaele - to gain a few miles of ground.

As an old American (I'm 75) don't be too upset about what the politicians are doing. When the "balloon goes up" your country will find the resources to once again send out a REAL army.( IN 1940, we had guys going through basic training with no ammo and silhouettes for tanks) It's nice to read in this thread that there are still lots of Canadians around who make this American glad that you are our neighbors.

Mickey,

If you ever get a chance to vist Menin Gate it is a very fitting & moving memorial...The scale of the monument is staggering IIRC it is enscribed with the names of over 50,000 British and Commonwealth Soldiers who were lost in the Ypres Salient and who have no known grave.

The memorial was completed in something like 1927 and the following year, the towns people of Ypres decided they wanted a further gesture of gratitude..It was decided that every evening at 8pm the Last Post would be called from the Gate itself...

From Armistice Day 1929, to this day, the Last Post has been sounded every night except during the four years of German Occupation in WW2. Even then the Free Belgian Forces continued the ceremony at a War Memorial here in the UK...

Regards,

Pete

Pete

I am amazed at the way the Belgians take care of the War dead of other Countries. I have an Uncle who died with Patton in the relief of Bastogne that is buried at THE HENRI-CHAPELLE AMERICAN CEMETERY outside Liege.

I visited his grave a few years ago and I commented to my friend from Liege about how nice it was kept. He said that residents of nearby towns had adopted all of the American Graves and they are the ones who keep the headstones clean and put flowers on the graves on Armistice Day as surrogate families for the Dead.

I met the Family that cares for my Uncles Grave, they live in the village of Henri-Chapelle, and have taken care of his Grave and the one next to him since the Cemetary opened in the late 50's. Three generations.

I tried to do something for them but the most they would accept was dinner in Liege.

I asked why they did this for people in a country they had never been to and the Grandfather only shrugged. He said it was the least they could do for the sacrifice that was made.

I don't know if other Cemetaries have this done or not but I would not be surprised.

I will get to Yerpes and Menin Gate, see for myself and pay homage to those who died..

quote:

This is something that the curse of "multiculturalism" can never tarnish.

Kuteney,

I know you have a very strong sense of patriotism and rightly point out the great sarifices made by Canadian soldiers, so please take this post as it is intended...

Below is a partial list of VC winners broken
down by nationality...it is a very diverse and multi-cultural list, but all these men have one thing in common...

American VC recipients ... 5 awards
Australian VC recipients ...96 awards
Belgian VC recipients ... 1 award
Canadian VC recipients ... 90 awards
Ceylonese VC recipients ... 1 award
Danish VC recipients ... 4 awards
English VC recipients ..615awards (incomplete)
Fijian VC recipients ... 1 awards
German VC recipients ... 2 awards
Grenadan VC recipients ... 1 award
Indian VC recipients ... 29 awards
Irish VC recipients ... 168 awards
Kenyan VC recipients ... 1 award
Nepalese VC recipients ... 11 awards
New Zealander VC recipients ... 24 awards
Newfoundlander VC recipients ... 1 award
Rhodesian VC recipients ..3 awards (incomplete)
Scottish VC recipients..159 awards (incomplete)
Sikkimese VC recipients ... 1 award
RSA VC recipients...21 awards (incomplete)
Swedish VC recipients ... 1 award
Swiss VC recipients ... 1 award
Ukrainian VC recipients ... 1 award
Welsh VC recipients ... 25 awards (incomplete)
West Indian VCrecipients...3awards (incomplete)
Uncertain Nationality ... 82 awards

Just as every Canadian soldier who gave their life deserves to be remembered , so do the soldiers of other nationalies who fought
with the Allies regardless of race, creed or colour...

Regards,

Pete

Just Someting I found on the BBC Histroy Site:

"Feature Articles: Lions of the Great War
Updated - Saturday, 23 August, 2003

With the outbreak of war in Europe, India, the Crown Jewel of the British Empire, joined the Allies in battle on the 4th of August 1914.

Contributing the most volunteers of any of the British imperial holdings that fought in the war, India produced between 900,000 to 1.5 million troops for combat by 1919. Of these troops, the Sikhs, one of the two loyal 'martial races' of the British Raj, rallied in enormous numbers for the King, Empire, and the defence of Europe.

At the beginning of the war, Sikh military personnel numbered around 35,000 men of the 161,000 troops of the Indian Army, around 22% of the armed forces, yet the Sikhs only made up less than 2% of the total Indian population. By the end of the war 100,000 Sikh volunteers joined the British Armed forces with a few Sikhs also contributing to the French Air Service and the American Expeditionary Force.

It is also said that some Sikh POWs, captured in Belgium, were believed to have been Muslims by the Germans and taken to Turkey to fight along side their fellow 'Mohammedans'. However, they still remained loyal to the British Crown and escaped on a long trek to the British posts in Afghanistan, from Turkey through the Middle East, to once again fight under the British flag.

Though being paid a mere 11 rupees a month for his services to the Empire, the Sikh soldier took his duty as a soldier in an almost religious aspect in a romanticized idea of being a martyr and a knight for the King.

A Sikh soldier, Indar Singh, fighting on the Somme in September 1916, wrote home:

It is quite impossible that I should return alive. [But] don't be grieved at my death, because I shall die arms in hand, wearing the warrior's clothes. This is the most happy death that anyone can die.

The idea of martyrdom and battlefield heroics proved to be a necessity for the British as they were being pushed back by the Germans time and time again. In fact, the British felt it necessary to nourish Sikh fanaticism by allowing the Sikhs areas to set up temporary Gurdwaras (Sikh Temples), to observe the birthdays of Sikh gurus, to use traditional Sikh weapons (such as Sikh quoits and the sabre), and it was not uncommon to see the Sikh holy book, Guru Granth Sahib, being carried before a marching Sikh battalion or even on the front lines among the battling Sikh troops.

These 'unique stalwarts from the east,' fought in the battles of Ypres, Flanders, the Somme, Gallipoli, East Africa, Palestine, Egypt / Suez Canal, Mesopotamia, and numerous other battlefields in nearly all theatres of the war.

This article cannot justly commemorate the contribution of these fine warriors who fought disease, filth, gas attacks, and the onslaught of German and Turkish troops and maxim guns with only their turbans to protect them from head wounds and their unshorn hair and long beards, as prescribed by their religious faith, in disease infested, muddy trenches.

The average Indian battalion had around 764 men when they landed in France, but by November 1914, the 47th Sikhs had only 385 men left. In Gallipoli, the 14th Sikhs lost 371 officers and men in mere minutes, and thousands of other Sikhs died in various other encounters such as Neuve Chappelle and the Somme.

The "Black Lions," as the Arabs called them in Mesopotamia, of the Punjab sacrificed their lives for the defence of freedom in Europe for an ally that was ruling their own homeland, yet they did it out of honour and loyalty."

Pete,

I can't speak for Kutenay, but I suspect you've misunderstood his use of 'multiculturalism'....having lived in Canada, I would think that he is referring to the same modern politically correct multiculturalism that we have diluting our national identity here in UK (ie some councils banning the words 'Happy Christmas' on their decorations as insulting to non-Christians)....rather than saying other countries didn't contribute as much.

Gerry375

Good post; comparatively fresh from my 1st Northern Ireland tour, I had the unusual honour (as a Brit)back in the early 90s, of commanding a troop of Canadian soldiers for just under 2 years.
At the soldier level, they were awesome ...a match for any soldier anywhere -more than a match for most...it was the one of the most rewarding phases of my career to date. ...any problems (from the perspective of a young captain back in the 90s at least!) were at the higher levels, 99% of whom had only very benign 'peacekeeping' experience (and outlook).My point being..at the sub-unit and maybe unit level; they still are a REAL army!

Your understanding of my comment is correct, our friend Pete misunderstood my reference as it was made in a Canadian social context. Thanks for your clarification.

As to the "lions-donkeys" comment, that originated in the Boer War, not WWI and it was a slur cast by German "observers" upon the heroic British officers of the "Glamorganshires"; a Welsh regiment that took "Spion Kop" by frontal assault against Boers hiding behind rocks at the summit. I am not impressed by such remarks, considering the source.

As to Stilwell, he was notoriously anti-British and his opinions of a number of things got his ass into some difficulties, IRRC, I do not have time this ayem to research this. I hardly think that the British generals down through history, Wellington, Marlborough, Braddock, Gort, Wavell and so forth would be overly concerned about Stillwell, for obvious reasons.

Earl Haig is probably the most unjustly maligned senior officer in history, he had to cope with a situation that would have utterly destroyed a lesser man. He made some tactical errors, but, he realized as did few others that the Germans, etc. HAD to be beaten on the "Western Front" in order for victory in WWI to be attained. He was an honourable and courageous gentleman, something that cannot be said of his detractors; the "Welsh Wizard" being a case in point.

As to British officers as a whole, they have been consistently the most capable, courageous and honourable of any nation. Many of my direct ancestors were British officers and I take exception to any stereotyping of these men. Had it not been for their huge, voluntary sacrifices in both World Wars, democracy would not now exist; we REAL Canucks are always prepared to fight alongside our British brothers....given the situation in the Middle East, I doubt that any of us will have much choice in the matter, anyway, a depressing thought......

As I said, I meant no slur on Canadian patriotism and I am certainly the last person to endorse political correctness...Actually, apart from acknowledging the brave deeds carried out be people of many nations, I think a certain irony about multiculturalism here in the UK was behind my post. I strongly object to the culture of my country being swamped by others, but it some cases it seems to me we owe certain "others" a huge debt of gratitude from times not too distant past..

Regards,

Pete

I was looking through a Canadian Army site for some information and came upon this little tidbit.

I'm sorry but I can't help smiling at the wording.

quote:

......In the New World many colonial corps were raised to fight first the French competition for territory, and then in a futile attempt to suppress the secessionist revolution of a significant number of colonials. That lost cause led to what some historians have called the birth of the "Second British Empire" ......

A polite way to describe those who were found revolting.

quote:

Originally posted by Murf:
A polite way to describe those who were found revolting.

I hear others found it Liberating.

Kutenay:

It really pains me to get into an argument with a Canadian about British officers in WW1. I havwe mentioned that my father was a liasion officer to British units in WW1 and personally saw the valor of Canadian troops under fire - and told his four sons about it.

You are simply wrong that the expression "Lions (referring to the infantry) led by donkeys(their generals) was a Boer War expression. It was a remark by Erich Ludendorff, the strategic genious of the German General Staff in WW1. (Who better than the enemy can assess the level of leadership of troops coming against him?)

You really cannot defend Haig. The latest British historian to criticize him is John Keegan )(The First World War) published in 1999. If I can quote an American historian of that war, S.L.A. Marshall, he wrote that the real tragedy of WW1 was that whole armies were raised and sent off to do what had failed, time and time again. (Sending troops against nested machine gun fire and zeroed in artillery) Haig was a cold fish who lived miles behind the lines and NEVER had an original strategic thought in his life. Too bad all the dead Canadians at Vimy Ridge and Passendaele can't rise up to tell you what they think about Haig.

It is surprising that you would choose to insult the American General Stilwell. General George Marshall's biographer says that Marshall wanted to nominate Stilwell as Supreme Allied Commander (instead of Eisenhower) but because the SE Asia theatre was so important(If Burma fell then India would follow)he didn't and asked Stilwell to serve - which he did. Stilwell led American, British and Chinese forces and reconquered Burma (thereby preserving a supply line to China) No less a British officer than Sir William Slim spoke in the highest terms of Stilwell. So did Lord mountbatten who commanded the SE Asia theatre. After WW2, German General Staff officers told interrogators that they regarded the American Army as having two truly original strategic thinkers. One was George Patton - and the other was Joe Stilwell. (BTW, I hate to rub this in but the reason for Joe Stilwell's dislike of British officers was because he served as a liasion officer to British units in WW1 - and his dislike for British officers was NOT of captains and lieutenants (who lead infantry in actual combat) but of a British staff that could think of nothing to do but to try and try again what had already failed. Are you aware that in the Somme offensive in 1916 ( A Haig idea) 60,000 soldiers of the "British Empire" fell in the first TWO HOURS? - and Haig persisted in having troops butt their heads against a stone wall for another THREE MONTHS? (BTW, Great Britain lost nearly one million men in WW1. Don't try to tell me or any other reader of history that the "donkeys" didn't have a lot to do with that!)

Gerry,
I think Haig deserves much more credit than you give him. He had seen active service in previous wars as the history below recounts:

"Douglas Haig, the son of John Haig, the head of the successful whisky distilling company, was born in Edinburgh in 1861. After obtaining a degree at Brasenose College, Oxford University he went to the Royal Military College at Sandhurst. After he completed his training Haig was commissioned into the 7th Hussars.

Haig was sent to India with his regiment in 1886 and while there worked his way through the ranks. Haig experienced active service in the Sudan (1898) and the Boer War (1899-1902), where he served under Major-General Sir John French. Promoted to the rank of colonel, Haig returned to India where he served in a variety of administrative posts under Lord Kitchener. When Haig became major-general he was the youngest officer of that rank in the British Army.

In 1906 Haig took up the important post at the War Office as Director of Military Training. He worked closely with R. B. Haldane, the Secretary of State for War, to establish a general staff and a territorial army. It was also Haig's responsibility to organize a British Expeditionary Force (BEF) to be deployed in time of war.

In 1914 Haig obtained the rank of Lieutenant General and was given command over the 1st Army Corps of the British Expeditionary Force (BEF) in France and Belgium. Haig commanded his forces at Mons and was praised for his Ypres campaign in 1914. Later in the same year, Haig was promoted to full general and was given command of the recently enlarged BEF, under the supreme command of General Sir John French.

In December 1915, Haig was appointed commander in chief of the BEF. Haig now become under extreme pressure from the French to produce a diversion from Verdun. The first Battle of the Somme was fought from July to November 1916. In that time Allied forces advanced 12km and suffered 420,000 British and 200,000 French casualties.

In 1918 Haig took charge of the successful British advances on the Western Front which led to an Allied victory later that year. After the war Haig's management of the major campaigns, notably on the Somme in 1916, and at Passchendaele in 1917, was criticized by David Lloyd George, the British prime minister. Some military historians have claimed that Haig tactics were deeply flawed. Others have defended his actions and claimed that his approach was largely determined by French demands for continuous action at that part of the Western Front.

After the war Haig was posted as commander in chief of home forces until his retirement in 1921. Haig, who was granted £100,000 by the British government, devoted the rest of his life to the welfare of ex-servicemen via the Royal British Legion. He was made Earl Haig in 1919 and then Baron Haig of Bemersyde in 1921. Douglas Haig died in 1928."

A more detailed account of his participation in WW1 can be read here:

Haigs Role in WW1

I have posted extensively here concerning my family's involvement in various wars as British officers; my grandfather was a CANADIAN officer at both the Somme and Passchendaele, wounded at both battles. His name was Captain Donald Norbert McCallum, O.C. 9th. platoon, 21st Battalion, E.O.R., C.E.F.

I was actually raised by men who served at the Somme, Passchendaele, Canal du Nord and one of my older friends, long dead, was gassed at 2nd. Ypres. But, I wouldn't know anything about the British in WWI, how could I possibly, eh?

One of my great-great aunt Lady Sarah Servington-Savoury's relatives served in the Boer War, but, I cannot recall his name, just now. As a small boy, I had a tiny, gold charm that he brought back to L.S.S.S. and my younger sister has a medal with her inscription on it, also from this chap....but, I really don't know anything about these conflicts, of course.

As to John Keegan, I have a number of his books and read his account of WWI, when it came out; I am not in the habit of posting falsehoods or indulging in baseless slander. Keegan stresses certain events in a way that I do not totally agree with, his seemingly deliberate minimizing of Canadian accomplishments being one case in point and his enumeration of our WWII losses being another...at least in the editions of his books sitting on the shelves behind me.

As to the quote, it is, translated, "the British soldiers have the hearts of lions, but, they are led by officers with the brains of donkeys" and it was uttered by a German officer serving as an "observer" at Spion Kop as he watched the magnificent attack of the Glamorganshires. While Von Ludendorff may well have said much the same thing later, this is accurate.

I rather doubt that any of the Canadian dead from WWI will rise up to chide me in any way; certainly the elderly veterans I knew and still know seem to appreciate my visits, bull sessions and other help my wife and I try to give. Of course, it somehow seems appropriate given the number of my close relatives that served in the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, the Black Watch and the Brigade of Guards, then in the Canadian Army and Navy.

Haig was simply the best that the British had for the task at that time and he had a hellish situation. As he said,(this is a paraphrase) " this will not be finished as long as stout hearts beat under German tunics" and the technology and conditions of the times demanded a type of infantry attack that present day strategy does not; however, British Commonwealth valour proved equal to the task as we WON WWI.

I might also point out that one of the major reasons for the remarkable success of Canadian troops from Festubert, St. Julien and the stand against the first use of poison gas at 2nd. Ypres, this by the "Old Red Patch", the First Canadian Division was the fact that they were trained and led by British officers. These included staff level officers, who were very highly regarded by the Canadian troops, General Sir Edwin Alderson and General the Lord Byng of Vimy and General Louis Lipsett, a British officer and instructor of the finest type, who was the single, most popular senior officer with the troops, even more so than Sir Arthur Currie.

In WWII, the superb defence of Tobruk, by the 9th Australian Division was commanded by largely British officers, whose courage and skill was recognized by Field-Marshall Erwin Rommel, who was, I think, a "German". Nobody is perfect, but, I get really tired of the shallow myth of American popular history a la "Hollywood" that the British senior officers were incompetent, insensitive or inferior to officers of other nations, it is simply bullshit.

I will make another point, it is that Generals of any nation continually belittle both their colleagues and opponents in order to improve their own political situation and their place in history. Among those who did this were Bradley, Patton, McArthur and Stillwell; each of whom might well have reflected on his own foibles, before denigrating others. As to reading "history", it's about critical analysis of available data, not about defaming those unable to speak from the grave.

Finally, concerning the British and Empire losses in WWI, you are godam right I am aware of them as a number of them were members of my family. At the Somme, on Dominion Day, 1916, we lost almost 58,000 men, not 60,000, with most losses coming within the period from 07:30, when the British attack went in, to 10:30, some three hours.

This battle was deemed necessary due to the basic collapse of the French, who had even then began the trench mutinies that made British action imperative; we did not suffer this horrific slaughter because of British insensitivity. Passchendaele was undertaken the following year because the French had about had it and their officers were actually forced to shoot groups of them for cowardice, desertion and mutiny.

The Italians just gave up and ran after Capporetto and thus Haig and the I.G.S. felt it necessary to go on at Passchendaele where we lost some 240,000 men....we of the British Commonwealth know all about sacrifice, devotion to duty and leadership by officers of impeccable honour and iron courage, Tyne Cot Cemetery at Passchendaele shows that, to our enduring sorrow.

Kootenay:

It was never my intention to insult British FIELD officers (captains and lieutenants) who led troops in actual combat. If you thought so, I deeply apoligize. I always meant the cavalry officers from earlier wars like French and Haig who didn't understand what the machine gun could do) were so behind the times - and that in 3 year of an infantry war never understood that flesh and blood (infantry) simply could not advance against nested machine gun fire or zeroed in artillery fire (It really is that simple)

As to a later war - I really don't want to argue with you. I had two brothers in WW2 - one in infantry and the other in paratroops. Both were in Europe. Montgomery wanted to save lives - and so he was cautious - and was accused of letting the Germans escape from the closing in Allied vise on the Caretan Peninsula) Eisenhower (who never heard a bullet under fire) wanted the infantry to press ahead. What can I tell you? Let's agree that wars are bad business. Certainly (I hope) we can agree that that the Canadian dead in two wars can rest in honored peace. Canadians and Americans who served together don't give a damn about Canadian politics, one way or another. You should give a damn about people who shed blood for for your country - just as I, an American, admire them.

Recently Doug Fisher, a former soldier, made oblique reference in the Toronto Sun to French Canadian participation in WW2 inferring they didn't show up for the fight.

I found this intriguing because for as long as I can remember I have been hearing separatists from Quebec saying they want to leave Confederation to preserve the French language and culture.

I asked a former Viet Nam war correspondent from Toronto about this and he said that for political reasons French Canadian participation in WW1 and WW2 has been an official secret in Canada since WW1.

He said the reason is for this is that there are almost a million young Canadians buried on the battlefields of France, all of whom died fighting to preserve the French language and culture, in two wars, and almost all of them are English speaking Canadians. With a very few exceptions such as the Van Doos it seems French Canadians didn't show up for the fight to save France, its language and its culture.

He said in northwestern Ontario the Finnish immigrants, in the wood working industry, all volunteered to fight and went to Germany but when they left French Canadians from Quebec moved in and took their jobs. When the Finns who survived came home after the war the French didn't give them their jobs back and so they were unemployed and very pissed off. History is never what it seems.


VBR,


Ted Gorsline

His Excellency, The Governor-General of The Dominion of Canada, Major-General Georges Vanier.

Lt. Talbot Papineau, PPCLI, K.I.A. Passchendaele.

Major Paul Triquet. V.C.


and many more.


BTW, I have no French ancestry and my ancestors fought them on "The Plains of Abraham", but, I think that the myths about "Canadien" participation in WWII, especially, are too often over-blown. Just like the nonsense about our "Indian" allies that "multi-culters" and other traitors love to spew; the fact is that about as many East Indians, Sikhs included, fought for the Japanese.

Generally, I like French-Canadians and respected that little character Rene Levesque....although I would have bayoneted him to keep Canada together! I got a kick out of the little bugger!

quote:

You should be enormously proud of your ancestor's role at Passchendaele; this was the turning point of WWI and I think that having a relative who fought in Canadian uniform there (and they were ALL volunteers) is akin to being descended from those who fought on the Plains of Abraham or at Queenston Heights or Lundie's Lane. This is something that the curse of "multiculturalism" can never tarnish.

Kutes

Some more information I turned up. Another Uncle, Hans, brother of August, also fought at Passendale with the Alberta Overseas Battalion.

He had better luck, only being wounded. He married an English Nurse while in Hospital and stayed in England. Later moving to the US.

His parents, my Great Grand Parents, never recieved word he survived and thought that they had lost both sons. The returning members of the regiment also thought he had died. They moved to the US in 1922, thinking he was dead also. They were not reunited until 1947, in Seattle, when Hans and his family tracked them down.

Amazing things, computers.