Hey guys im not trying to stir up yalls page and I dont want to step on anybody toes here but after returning from Reno I have to ask you guys that are outfitters what is going on whith the hunting prices in Canada? I have hunted in Alberta for the past 6 years with the same outfitter. A well known outfitter that has roughly 100 deer permits a year. When I started going hunting there the hunts were $4000 including Tags. In the last two years the price has gone up 1K a year he now charges roughly $6000 dollars without tags! At the convention I looked at deer hunts in Alberta and they were from a low of $5900 to as much as $9000 dollars for a free ranging whitetail.
The US dollar has weakened I realize, but not remotely close enough to warrant a 50% increase in hunting fees. What gives, is it just supply and demand? Can an outfitter really sell all their permits when they charge 6K plus for a deer?
Remember guys not tring to pick a fight just trying to understand, as I truly loved hunting up there but as of now, I have without a doubt visited Alberta for the last time with a rifle in my hands. There is far too many more interesting animals to hunt for what it now costs to go up there.

I am with you on this subject. I recently returned from Alberta november 2007. I figured that my $5,900 hunt cost me about $7435, including shared motel room $75, tags $500, Rent car (shared) to get to camp for 1 week $180, gas $80, airport parking $100, airfare $780, tip $600. That doesn"t include the new gear for the cold...boots, bibs, expedition thermals, gloves, etc...another $500.
I can kill as good of deer here in South Texas for less and do not have to sit on a 5 gallon bucket in a pop-up floorless blind built for kids in the snow and freeze my ass off!
These hunts are over priced in my opinion. you can have a great hunt in Kansas for half the money.

Just my opinion but, Albertas economy is/was booming and if the outfitters don't charge that they could make that in the oil industry. Not only has the US dollar tanked but the price of fuel etc has increased as well.

I guess if the market would not pay what they are asking then the price would have not gone up so much either.

I would love to do a deer hunt up there, but for that kind of money I can just as big a deer in Texas (horn wise that is) and stay warm. I looked into a mntn goat hunt up there. Hahaha. I booked with a guy in Alaska. I also looked at a hunt there for dall sheep. Forget it. I also booked the hunt in Alaska.
Perhaps one year I'll put the rifles down and try fishing in Canada - that is if the fishing license hasn't gone thru the roof also.

I'm editing this b/c of how it sounded. I'm laughing b/c of how expensive it has gotten up there. I would like to, one day, do a deer hunt up there just to experience what it would be like and of course to take a huge Sask. monster.

2003: Hunt worth $4000 USD meant the outfitter received $5500 CDN. Exchange rate was $0.65 USD/CDN.

2007: To make the same money from the same hunt, all else being equal, the outfitter now has to charge at least $5500 USD. Unfortunately, while our dollars are nearly at par, expenses have gone up considerably. To keep guides and camp staff that could make way more money working in the oil and gas industry, wages have had to go up. And everyone knows the price of fuel has increased massively over the last few year, etc, etc...

As long as they keep selling their hunts, the price won't be pushed down either.

Cheers,
Canuck

MY thing with the outfitters is You pay the High price , How can an outfitter produce good deer taking 100 people every year. It can't be constantly done . Hunter are looking for the almighty 180+ deer. Most gus are only shooting 150" class deer . Our average Here in Maryland on our eastern shore is 140". Also cost less.

I agree with everything said. I'd suggest not coming to Alberta anymore for hunting. Truthfully there aren't very many trophy animals left. It's probably better to stay where it's nice and warm. Perhaps aftica would be a better location to spend 6 grand.

Leave the hunting so we can freeze our own arse off sitting on a five gallon bucket.




cheers


the chef

Have you compared the prices between Alberta and Sask? Lots of big deer in Sask and many outfitters. Personally, I think greed plays a part in this as well. (sorry if this ruffles a few feathers) The economy is booming and everyone wants a piece of the pie. Not criticizing , just offering an opinion.

$6000 isn't much money in Alberta these days. A friend of mine suspended their guiding business last year because they couldn't afford to take the time off work. His and his partner are union carpenters and both are making $2500+/week at work and they couldn't net that much charging 4 guys $4,000 each for whitetail hunts each week.

quote:

I can kill as good of deer here in South Texas for less and do not have to sit on a 5 gallon bucket in a pop-up floorless blind built for kids in the snow and freeze my ass off!

Whats the point in even coming to Canada. Just sit in your SUV and shoot deer out the window in Texas, sounds very satisfying

There is hunting and there is HUNTING I suppose. I lived a number of years in Texas and hunted deer there a bit via corporate offerings but found chasing hogs far, far more fun, and challenging... Of course the others thought I was nuts, hogs??? I always headed to Colorado to HUNT. I have lived here in Alberta for the past three years and here folks HUNT just as I like to. As Elmer Keith said, HUNTING is what you do before you pull the trigger.

As suggested above, the Province is "booming" due to oil (which is why I am up here) so folks willingness to spend has changed dramtically in just the three years I have been here. The Country, in general, appears to be doing very well too. My view is, if you really desire a hunt of a lifetime pass on just a deer hunt up here and head to the northern areas of BC and have a wilderness hunt of a lifetime. Elk, moose, goat, whatever and do it soon as, in time, who knows what will be offered. I am heading there this fall. Lastly, I have done Africa and while my wife and I had a good time it was not HUNTING.

Boxhead,

I agree wholeheartedly with you about Northern BC (and the Yukon)...that is my perfect hunting experience. I have been fortunate to do it as a resident a number of times, and will keep going back until I can't do it any longer.

I have to disagree with you about Africa though. Its a massive continent and not all created equal. My two trips to RSA were not "hunting" to me either (yes in the general sense, in that it was mainly fair chase where I hunted, but not really my idea of hunting). BUT, and this is a BIG but, Tanzania was every bit as wild as anywhere I have ever been. Tracking cape buffalo and bumping into cow elephants in the the thick bush (and subsequently getting chased off by them) was surely "hunting" in my way of looking at things. I HIGHLY recommend it.

Cheers,
Canuck

Alberta's economy is booming and the US dollar is not. As someone noted earlier, $6,000 doesn't buy you much in Alberta these days. That means that it's going to cost American hunters a lot more to hunt Alberta. I don't think threats to stay home are going to make much difference to the cost of living in Alberta, but you never know. As a retired Albertan I squawk all the time about high prices, but so far nobody seems to be listening.

If American hunters think staying at home will drive down the cost of living in Alberta, then by all means, give it a try. I would love to see it happen.

quote:

Whats the point in even coming to Canada

Exactly.

Well you boys from the good ole USA had things goin your way for a purty long time exchange-wise.
I can remember being in Reno a few years back with a 65 cent Canadian buck.
Well the worm has finally turned and your $ is sinking and ours is rising.
Lately we have been around a buck US and thats OK by me!

I got no sympathy whatsoever when it cost me 40% more to hunt in Africa, back when our Canuck-buck was at 0.65 USD. Hard for me to feel too sorry now.

Cheers,
Canuck

Well as an Albertan reaping the benefits of a strong dollar, maybe I will head to Texas and shoot some of their game for a few years for a change. My cousin's have been coming up to Alberta for years, Hmmm..... something to think about for all of the Canucks out their.

Martinbns- So correct me please! Your carpenters now are pulling $60/hour++?? I'm going to have to rethink a few things......

They may put in more than 40 hr/ wk. for the 2500 bucks. My 2 brother are consulting engineers working for Husky on contract. They make $1500/day plus expenses. The only things they supply are their own truck and a laptop. Things are pretty pricy in AB and getting there in SK as well. I'd go the extra few hundred and hunt moose or sheep in N. BC. Mark

quote:

Originally posted by crane:
Martinbns- So correct me please! Your carpenters now are pulling $60/hour++?? I'm going to have to rethink a few things......

I don't know about carpenters, but I have heard unsubstantiated reports of landscaper back labour getting $30/hr and the landscape contractors can't keep them. The construction business steals them, and the oil patch steals them from the construction industry. As far as entry level jobs in Tim Hortons and Movie Gallery are concerned, these businesses can't run normal hours due to lack of staff.

Alberta's economy has always been robust, but the last few years have been just crazy. The cost of living has skyrocketed. Anyone looking for a cheap deer hunt better look elsewhere, because you won't find it in Alberta.

The attitude here is, "Too expensive? - step aside please so the guy behind you can pay it!"

On the other hand, dollars aren't the only big bucks we have!

I can remember not too long ago buying a dall hunt out of Norman Wells for $8500 US. It was ~ .6-1 at the time. There was a gentleman from E.Canada in camp. It was a backpack hunt but we got to visit 2X during the 14 days. In one of our conversations pricing came up. He paid 8500 Canadian which seemed to be the practice at the time(mid 90's). I don't see the US dollar falling to that level but I'm not an economist either. And the operators here in the US would NEVER do that to our brothers from the North!

quote:

Originally posted by 35404:
My 2 brother are consulting engineers working for Husky on contract. They make $1500/day plus expenses. The only things they supply are their own truck and a laptop.

Yep, last year a friend told me his son was makng $240,000 a year, services oil rigs. The truck was his to supply. And some days they'd shoot a limit of grouse while traveling from one to the next! ;-)

Frans

Well I guess the consensus of the Canadians is that the economy has caused the price increase which, I guess it is what it is, just disapoints me a bit as I loved hunting big deer in Alberta.
I do, however; have to ask Boxhead where he hunted in Africa that he thought it was not hunting? I must assume as Canuck said it must have been South Africa, where the practice of put and take hunting is the norm rather than the exception, this I will agree is not hunting. The rest of africa??? Well I disagree. I cannot imagine a more true form of hunting than getting on an animals track in the morning and following it until the sun is high in the sky, your legs are tired from the miles of walking, your throat is dry and you find your quarry only to turn and leave it because it was not the mature animal you were looking for, then start over the next day. On top of this throw in the variable that the animal you are following is dangerous and every tracking day could potentiall turn into a life threatening experience.....there is a movie quote I would like to use here, modified a bit for this situation, and purely for humor....."you track all day to be unsuccessful, the animals are dangerous, the bush is thick, rarely but occasionally someone dies....if thats not hunting, well then my friend, you need hunting lessons."

quote:

Originally posted by crane:
I can remember not too long ago buying a dall hunt out of Norman Wells for $8500 US. It was ~ .6-1 at the time. There was a gentleman from E.Canada in camp. It was a backpack hunt but we got to visit 2X during the 14 days. In one of our conversations pricing came up. He paid 8500 Canadian which seemed to be the practice at the time(mid 90's). I don't see the US dollar falling to that level but I'm not an economist either. And the operators here in the US would NEVER do that to our brothers from the North!

In the past, during the .6=1 days, I priced out several hunts in Canada. The price was always quoted in US dollars, regardless of where you came from. There were no discounts for fellow Canadians, although I never asked for a discount either.

I agree that the practise you described above is a poor business practise, and borders on unethical. The price should be the same for everyone, and I'm sorry to see that your described situation has occured.

I disagree with the almost universal practise of pricing hunts around the world in $US. It is done as a convenience to American hunters, who make up a large part of the market, but always causes confusion and ill will when currency fluctuates.

quote:

"Too expensive? - step aside please so the guy behind you can pay it!"

hahaha, too true. There will always be some rich big wig from the sates willing to pay.

I moved to Ft Mcmurray in 1990 and bought a half duplex for $75000 sold it in 2000 for $140000.Bought a house in Camrose for $125000,my Ft Mac house sold for $440000 this summer and my next door neighbor sold this summer for $390000.Gas here is $4.00 a gallon and a small house rents for $1500 a month plus utilities.Guess at a heating bill eg today wind chill is -45 F.You can't possibly think that last years prices wouldn't rise at least 40% or more.Go ahead 'hunt' Texas from the back of an elevated truck on a high fenced ranch with 10 bucks to the doe population ratio as we see on some of the outdoor shows up here or go to Saskatchewan and "hunt" over a bait pile and shoot a 170 + buck and call it fair chase and get your name in the Book.The best place in the world to harvest a trophy whitetail is here in Alberta but don't think they are behind every tree a book deer is the hardest trophy in the world if you consider the number of hunters out after them every year.Alberta is the size of Texas with a whitetail population of less than 1,000,000 Pay the going price and take your chances.

There's obviously still demand for Alberta deer hunts, otherwise outfitters couldn't ask these prices and fill their allocated tags.
That being said, yes the price is outrageous for a whitetail, but is $30,000+ justified for Stone's sheep,$7000 for antelope in certain areas or $6000 for black bear on Vancouver Island?

There's really no need to bash Alberta outfitters. Those who don't want to pay can hunt elsewhere. Whitetail are all over North America.

Also,it really doesn't matter what the economy in Alberta is doing. Residents aren't paying these prices. If the economy to the south slows even more, as predicted, the prices will drop.

As far as hunts being priced in US$, 99.9% of foreign whitetail hunters in Canada are American citizens and I bet over 90% who hunt the other available species in Canada are also US citizens. The US$ is also the most accepted currency worldwide.

Just my $.02

The Alberta economy booming is part of the price increase, but it still doesn't seem to be understood (by some of the US residents here anyway) that in CDN currency, these price increases are not that big.

These guys live in Canada and work in Canada. They buy their supplies in Canadian prices and pay Canadian taxes.

A hunt that was $10000 CDN 3 years ago, only cost $6500 USD. To sell that same hunt today for $10000 CDN, it is now worth $10000 USD.

I am not sure why anyone from the US wouldn't get that. What do you guys expect...outfitters to sell hunts at a discount, just to keep prices low in USD?? They have to make a living too. And keep in mind that a lot of territories have changed hands in the last 5 years. The value of those sales were based on what you could sell hunts for then....a lot of guys have a pile of debt to service, in addition to the annual costs of running the hunts.

And not that this makes any difference, just FYI, it isn't so much that our dollar has increased in value, its the US dollar that has dropped in value.

Cheers,
Canuck

Guys, This whole discussion can be boiled down to principles taught in elementary Economics 101 courses i.e. supply/demand. If the price of Canadian hunting rises, for whatever reason, to the point that a significant number of hunters stop hunting in Canada, one of two things will happen. Prices will begin to drop if outfitters have any leeway in their cost structure and still remain in business.

However,if some outfitters cannot afford to drop prices to maintain volume, those outfitters will go out of business and the smaller number of remaining outfitters will continue to service the reduced volume of clients willing to pay the prevailing prices. Its as simple as that.