Hey guys,
Never thought I would get a response to my post.Thank you all for your input! My guide asked that we make a shoulder shot, which would put the bear down. Indeed it did with the .45-.70. He went face-down, but he managed to recover, and attempted to "crawl" away. Perhaps my choice of bullets was the problem? I have the bullet from my kill. Perfectly mushroomed, but still inside the hide.
What are your thoughts on another bullet?

Hornady 325gr. FTX

458Only: Thanks for posting.

Yes I would never use a 325 grain FTX again. Both shots broke up inside the bear. But it was a friends gun (my guide) and I didn't bring mine along on this trip.

I do like bullets that open quickly but still drive on through and going as fast as possible. This why I'm currently using the 405 Woodleigh.

Saying all this I'm not disagreeing with Angus and those that like faster choices. They work too. The rifle I brought on the trip mentioned was my .300 Weatherby using a 180 grain Nosler Partition. Needless to say that did flatten them.

But when people say a 45-70 is a slow killer the first thing I think about is what bullet was used and at what velocity. That makes a big difference. Most factory .300 grain loads were meant for trapdoor Sprinfield pressures and are noticeably slow killers. The modern factory loads from places like Buffalo Bore and of course hot handloads are another story entirely.

Bottom line is they all work within reason,that's part of the fun of hunting.

Those bullets suck. I have seen them used on a number of bears now and I am not impressed at all. Nice mushroom ......crappy penetration and even on a little 200 pound bear they stopped under the hide on the other side.

I really hate following up bears in the dark down bear trails after all these years. I much prefer a DRT situation. All this crap about easy to kill......yadayada.........gets old hundreds of bears down the pike.

My last two personal black bear kills were two spring boars that weighed 462 and 512. Both are B&C but have not beeen entered and probably never will. Both died in their tracks...lights out. The trusty old .338 WM.

Key is shot placement and truthfully I could have done the same thing with a .30-06 but you have to know the anatomy and use a good bullet.

I have shot quite a few blackies with a .25-06 and smaller, but it is far from ideal.

In the end I like big stout bullets and big holes. That makes me happy if I have to crawl around in a bear tunnel in the dark looking for a bear. Should be a short crawl.

If everyone arrived with a .338 Win and could shoot it life would be that much simpler Kelly. About as good as it gets there in my eyes. These are from memory so if my ranges change in a few years by ten or twenty yards forgive me.

For academic amusement, little rundown of recent bear rounds and effects here.


Grizzly, 7x57 75 yards 175gr Hornady Blue Box, bear walked casually after the hit for one minute and died. Less than ideal, a slow load in my eyes. Didn't exit.

Grizzly, by member Dogleg 100ish yards, .300 Ultra with a 180gr Accubond, died on the spot it was shot. Didn't exit.

Grizzly, very large boar 900lb range, 70 yards .375 Ruger 300gr DGX dead right there, just rolled. Didn't exit.

Black bear, very large coastal boar 21 1/8 head, 40 yards .308 Winchester 150gr Fusion, died on the spot, frontal shot. Didn't exit.

Grizzly, 210 yards, .300 Win and 200gr TBBCs. Good first shot, bear stood, was given two more in quick succession, and he died in the salmon stream he was fishing without traveling. Bullet too stiff, opened but not aggressively, and didn't exit (not abnormal on coastal Grizzly, built like barrels).

Grizzly, 230 yards, same load as above bear took one fatal round, and a second insurance round, then went into the river and floated downstream dead. Recovery was a rodeo if you know what BC coastal rivers are like, again, bullet too stiff and heavy for cartridge, arriving at the animal slow in the 2000fps range. No exits.

Black bear 35 yards, 7mm Rem Mag and 150s forgotten the bullet, dropped where he was shot.

Black bear .375 H&H 80 yards, 300gr Interloc, dropped where it stood.

Black bear 12ga Foster slug 20 yards, ran 50 yards into the trees and death bellowed. Slug turned into a lead donut 2" in diameter.

Grizzly .300 Win 220 yards, 190gr bullet make forgotten, dead on the spot, exited other side.

Grizzly 7mm Rem Mag 80 yards, 140gr bullet make unknown, bear stood vertical, then fell over dead on the spot, no exit.

I remember reading one of Kelly's articles in BCOD, must be 30 years ago, at least. I read that his rifle was a Sako .338WM, synthetic stock and, IIRC, sts bbl.

After my first remote BCFS "Lookout" 50 years ago, just 21 and a few years in the mountains of the Kootenays, where Grizzlies are even more numerous now then then, I bought my first .338 in January, 1968 and have owned 11 of them over the years.

I have seven now, all crf and usually with 250NPs at average 2700 fps-mv. I am ready to "hang up my guns" due to age and severe old injuries, but, the very LAST rifle I will ever part with is my orginal Alaskan P-64 .338.

When, you are alone, deep in the BC Coast Range and it is 03:00, your plywood shack is 14x14 and flimsy and a Grizzly is sniffing around outside while "rescue" due to weather is impossible..........338WM is THE "boss". BTDT, over several decades and Kelly's opinions always have impressed me.