The NDP figure they can do it better!

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2...-2015_n_6263410.html

would also seek to avoid the pitfalls that made the now-defunct long-gun registry so controversial, Tom Mulcair said Wednesday.


Yeah, Right. Unfortunately Albertans don't have Ralph to shelter them, this time.

Grizz

Tony in Canmore bought all mine

More thoughts on guns right from the NDP Policy Book. New Democrats believe in:

Stopping the smuggling of illegal firearms and
enable all municipalities, provinces, and territories
to implement a ban on handguns.

http://web.archive.org/web/201...-17-PolicyBook_E.pdf

What is the main reason that people are against some sort of record of gun ownership?

quote:

Originally posted by chin-gas-cook:
What is the main reason that people are against some sort of record of gun ownership?

We have a record of gun ownership already...it's called a PAL. You can't own a gun in Canada without it. Having a record of what guns those recorded gun owners own is a gross waste of money and pointless. What advantage is there to anyone knowing what guns I own?

The same can be said about RPAL. But it seems that nobody wants to challenge it.
Also, I am sure there are "gun owners" out there that don't have a PAL. And PAL owners that don't have guns.
Not that I am pro registration, but there has to be an argument with backbone to dismiss a record of gun ownership.

quote:

Originally posted by chin-gas-cook:

I am sure there are "gun owners" out there that don't have a PAL.

I suspect there are lots of gun owners that don't have a PAL....Do you really think they'd register their guns?

You said, you can't own a gun without a PAL.
But, there are gun owners out there without one. So, having a PAL isn't a very good record of ownership.
I would think a better way is to have much harsher penalties when a gun is used in a crime. Much better to debate for this. Then a registration wouldn't matter.
Again, I am not pro-registration, but am open to other suggestions on how to curtail gun crimes.

quote:

Originally posted by chin-gas-cook:
You said, you can't own a gun without a PAL.
But, there are gun owners out there without one. So, having a PAL isn't a very good record of ownership.
I would think a better way is to have much harsher penalties when a gun is used in a crime. Much better to debate for this. Then a registration wouldn't matter.
Again, I am not pro-registration, but am open to other suggestions on how to curtail gun crimes.

The "legal" part was implied. There is no good method of tracking illegal gun ownership that I'm aware of. Registration certainly isn't it.

It is always rather stupid when people start wailing about making handguns illegal ... where is it legal to use handguns for crime ... ??? What good is a ban when the darn things are already being used illegally for gang shootings etc .. ???

quote:

Originally posted by chin-gas-cook:
You said, you can't own a gun without a PAL.
But, there are gun owners out there without one. So, having a PAL isn't a very good record of ownership.
I would think a better way is to have much harsher penalties when a gun is used in a crime. Much better to debate for this. Then a registration wouldn't matter.
Again, I am not pro-registration, but am open to other suggestions on how to curtail gun crimes.

I really don't know how to take your posts. You act awfully naive about the whole registration issue and gun ownership in general. This issue is one that has been debated long and hard for years. The way you are phrasing things in the discussion so far is a prime example of why gun control gained so much traction in Canada in the first place.

Crooks do not register guns. The restricted and prohibited registries have been in place for over half a century and they do not prevent the use of restricted or prohibited firearms in crimes.

Harsher penalties for crimes committed with firearms were implemented a long time ago and the CPC is always trying to get tough on crime. Problem is that in the recent past the Crown Counsel has routinely dropped the use of firearms charges in plea-bargains to get the criminals to plead guilty to the initial offence........ like robbery. So they have circumvented the whole intent of previous criminal legislation in order to make things easier and cheaper for the tax payers.

So then the push becomes for the creation of mandatory sentences for use of firearms with no ability for the crown to mess with things. Then the liberal types object and get upset because you are taking some of the discretion away from the judges.

All of these things have been going on for years, so you really need to pay more attention to what is going on. Far too many gun owners just do not pay attention and leave it to everyone else to try and keep the politicians from advancing firearms control.

It really always dazzles me at just how uneducated and disinterested most firearms owners are.

You have just elaborated more in your post. I agree with all your saying.
I don't believe any party will start a registration again if there is a hint of cost at all.
My original question was what is the main reason to not have a registry. I have heard lots of reasons and have some of my own. But, some of the reasons come across simply as whining. Some have backbone some don't.
I think the main reason we shouldn't have a registry is it is an invasion of privacy. They don't ask how many hammers, screwdrivers or drills I have. Why ask how many guns I have? After all they are just a tool.

Indeed........ I agree and I am glad you did not take offence to my post. It is the internet and things can come across the wrong way in both directions.

The registration of long guns does nothing constructive. If you are a law abiding citizen and have a PAL, the authorities know you are likely to have firearms or may have access to them. That information is instantly available to police. In truth even the presence of a PAL, while it does give them a heads up that firearms may be present at a specific location or that an individual has access to them........... really shouldn't change how they approach a given situation as any person they deal with could have a firearm and they could be present in any residence they go to or vehicle they check. They should be approaching all calls with an abundance of caution.

Registries are a tool for confiscation. Registering a firearm is NOT the same thing as registering a car. If you don't renew your drivers licence or pay for the renewal on your registration and vehicle insurance the government/police doesn't come and seize your car. You don't even have to know how to drive to buy a vehicle and own it as a possession. You don't have to take a driving course to own a car. If you drive it on your own property you do not have to have insurance or a licence.

How many people are killed deliberately with automobiles every year? Do you see everyone wanting to ban vehicle possession?

Firearms control legislation is merely feel good legislation that politicians like because it creates the illusion that they are doing something for public safety. All they are doing is inconveniencing the most lawful segment of society........ firearms owners.

It has been proven time and time again that gun control in the form of registries and licensing, YES I SAID LICENSING, does NOTHING to make the streets safer and registration is simply a way to justify the existence of another bloated government bureaucracy thats sucking the tax payers dry.

I hope the CPC gets in again, the alternatives are very worrisome. I like to think that the majority of voters see through Trudeau and the nut job at the helm of the NDP, but then I never thought I would see the day the NDP would win in Alberta either.

That article was from Dec. 2014. Politicians can say whatever they want when there's no election on the horizon.

Now that an election has been called, I don't think Mulcair is stupid enough to spout off like that. While his base may be stupid enough to believe it, few others will.

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:

quote:

Originally posted by chin-gas-cook:

I am sure there are "gun owners" out there that don't have a PAL.

I suspect there are lots of gun owners that don't have a PAL....Do you really think they'd register their guns?

How many people do you think registered their guns the last time around? It's called Civil Disobedience, actually skewed the estimated number of guns held in Canada. Attempted reclassification and confiscation of non restricted rifles by the RCMP is going to make a lot of gun owners more reluctant to "just fill out a form". Good Luck Mulcair.

Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by chin-gas-cook:
. . . My original question was what is the main reason to not have a registry. . .

I am not overly familiar with Canadian law, however I suspect the main reason would be that once this "list" or registration is complete, all it takes is for future new "laws" to outlaw your weapons, and bam, the authorities know exactly where to go and get them. As an American, I see this as the Number 1 reason to resist registration.

A couple other points about registration, it is not free, or cheap. In Europe, each weapon I purchase and register costs about $25. And then if you sell one you pay to have it removed from the registry. The only good thing here is it doesn't expire, i.e. once registered it stays there without any renewal fees.

Then, they were thinking up new ideas and some politicians tried to push through a "tax" to pay yearly on each weapon you own. You can surmise if you have 10, even at $10 bucks a weapon per year, you're out $100 a year. And that number is just my conservative imagined fee. If they push that through, then I think you should also pay a tax on each soccer ball or baseball bat in your house. That would put the kabosh to these Europeans and their trying to come up wht a tax for the air you breathe!

P.S. I own zero soccer balls

quote:

How many people do you think registered their guns the last time around? It's called Civil Disobedience, actually skewed the estimated number of guns held in Canada.

How many registered fake guns under fake names that's one very good way to screw up the system.

Or register fake guns under a know anti's name.

The NDP will never win a federal election anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by RR:
The NDP will never win a federal election anyway.

Right now i wouldn't bet against it, the Duffy trial isn't bringing Harper any laurels, we'll have to see how that plays out. Few months ago, people were saying the same thing about Alberta.

Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by RR:
The NDP will never win a federal election anyway.

I hope you are right but they are leading in the polls and after what happened in Alberta nothing would suoprise me any more.

The NDP has ALWAYS been anti gun...period. No matter what stripe Prov or Fed. Make no mistake what we have seen in the past for gun regulation here will pale in comparison to what will come with a NDP govt.!
They will also kill the military and raise your taxes for social programs. They will pander to minorities such as we have never seen before.

As a party the only reason they are in opposition right now is cuz the Libs crapped the bed so badly the stink will never leave Ottawa!
They are where they are by default not merit.

Current style politics are a broken institution now and just lingering on cuz no one can clean it up so it stays status quo.

quote:

Originally posted by chin-gas-cook:
You have just elaborated more in your post. I agree with all your saying.
I don't believe any party will start a registration again if there is a hint of cost at all.
My original question was what is the main reason to not have a registry. I have heard lots of reasons and have some of my own. But, some of the reasons come across simply as whining. Some have backbone some don't.
I think the main reason we shouldn't have a registry is it is an invasion of privacy. They don't ask how many hammers, screwdrivers or drills I have. Why ask how many guns I have? After all they are just a tool.

If you actually think that you are out of your mind!

It is an absolute guarantee that an NDP or Liberal Gov't will institute a new firearms registry, as well as bring in new bans/restrictions on certain type weapons.

Black rifles and handguns will be targeted. You bet your ass on that!

The retards Muclair and TURD-o, will unite to fight the Conservatives and force this legislation.

So figure out where to hide your guns folks.

quote:

Originally posted by RR:
The NDP will never win a federal election anyway.

That sentiment caused wide spread voter apathy in Alberta. And while the people that actually work for a living and pay taxes were sitting at home, the freaks, LGBT and hippies were voting NDP.

There was record low voter turnout in general, but all the freaks, LGBT, hippies were mobilized and voted.

And today we're staring down the barrel of an NDP government.

Don't fall for it fellas!


.

election is not over do not give up yet.

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:

quote:

Originally posted by RR:
The NDP will never win a federal election anyway.

That sentiment caused wide spread voter apathy in Alberta. And while the people that actually work for a living and pay taxes were sitting at home, the freaks, LGBT and hippies were voting NDP.

There was record low voter turnout in general, but all the freaks, LGBT, hippies were mobilized and voted.

And today we're staring down the barrel of an NDP government.

Actually voter turnout was the highest it's been in years (59% highest since Ralph Klein was first elected) and 60% voted against NDP. Problem was that 50% of vote was split between WRP and PC. The real problem is our election system where this can happen.

We are f%#%ed though if NDP or Shiny pony party (LPC) get enough for minority govt.

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck32:

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:

quote:

Originally posted by RR:
The NDP will never win a federal election anyway.

That sentiment caused wide spread voter apathy in Alberta. And while the people that actually work for a living and pay taxes were sitting at home, the freaks, LGBT and hippies were voting NDP.

There was record low voter turnout in general, but all the freaks, LGBT, hippies were mobilized and voted.

And today we're staring down the barrel of an NDP government.

Actually voter turnout was the highest it's been in years (59% highest since Ralph Klein was first elected) and 60% voted against NDP. Problem was that 50% of vote was split between WRP and PC. The real problem is our election system where this can happen.

We are f%#%ed though if NDP or Shiny pony party (LPC) get enough for minority govt.

If Dannielle hadn't pulled her stupid stunt, talk about seizing defeat from the jaws of victory, we'd have a Wildrose government now.

Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams:

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck32:

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:

quote:

Originally posted by RR:
The NDP will never win a federal election anyway.

That sentiment caused wide spread voter apathy in Alberta. And while the people that actually work for a living and pay taxes were sitting at home, the freaks, LGBT and hippies were voting NDP.

There was record low voter turnout in general, but all the freaks, LGBT, hippies were mobilized and voted.

And today we're staring down the barrel of an NDP government.

Actually voter turnout was the highest it's been in years (59% highest since Ralph Klein was first elected) and 60% voted against NDP. Problem was that 50% of vote was split between WRP and PC. The real problem is our election system where this can happen.

We are f%#%ed though if NDP or Shiny pony party (LPC) get enough for minority govt.

If Dannielle hadn't pulled her stupid stunt, talk about seizing defeat from the jaws of victory, we'd have a Wildrose government now.

Grizz

I wonder about that. Could it be that it was an attempt to unite the right to prevent what did in fact happen? Alberta is in for one hell of a ride, trust me I'm from Saskatchewan. The NDP ruin everything they touch.

quote:

Originally posted by Dogleg:
I wonder about that. Could it be that it was an attempt to unite the right to prevent what did in fact happen? Alberta is in for one hell of a ride, trust me I'm from Saskatchewan. The NDP ruin everything they touch.

This why I live in BC, Saskatchewan was my birth province, hard to anything with those idiots!