Just reading this and was wondering about the outfitting industry being unable to compensate the landowners. Is the law?
Seems like reasonable compensation for access would benefit everyone and provide incentive for game mangement.

Also, was wondering if anyone could expound on the native issue with game conservation. Are natives allowed to violate the game laws for substantive hunting? Is this widespread are limited to certain areas.

Not meaning to argue, just interesting in learning on wildlife issues to our neighbors to the north.

Unfortunately, it's not about landowners, hunters, outfitters, or ranchers at this point, its about the Governments of Canada and the USA acting like a bunch of children. We don't do something they want, so they give us a hard time. Then we use different tactics and they keep pushing. By not allowing USA hunters to come over and hunt, they are really try to get large gun/hunting groups to lobby the USA Gov't from both sides, they don't really care about individual hunters when there's big groups involved.



It's sad to see things come to this. I used to love meeting up with the Yanks in the small towns and showing off some canuck "hot spots" and a little hospitality.



As for the Native hunting laws, as long as they're on their own land, it's open season. They can hunt unregulated, no licensing is needed as long as they are on a reserve.

Being an emigrant I can see things in little different light.

First of all Liberals, have planed this long ago so they could get elected. Tthey don�t care about who come here, as long as they vote for them. A good example is Trudeau trip to Latin America (Cuba, Jamaica, etc) to sip on rum and tequila and bring more free votes. What about Paul Martin�s dad, didn�t he like going to India and so, again maybe for business, but hey we loose more in this then gain.

I am a 80�-90� immigrant, and guess who was running the country, if you guessed Brian you absolutely right. That was the last time when Brits, Yugoslavians, Polish and so could make here. He new that most of us will vote right, because of the communist oppression. Why our �greatest� government stop bringing people from such countries like Byelorussia, Ukraine, Latvia, Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, and so�

People still suffer in those countries, like Byelorussia, where their president just past a law to be lifelong in the office. The opposition was crashed, hey why they say so little about that in CBC???

So in my belief this is all politically motivated, not to make it better here, just to get elected.

I live in so called GTA. 60% of new comers come here, and guess who are they? And guess who they vote? It is a pity that so many Canadians don�t see that.



Well, this is hunting site. Sorry for talking politics, but like you, I am pisssed too!!!



Peter

Why the hell should a farmer give a shit about an outfitter? The farmer gains nothing by allowing the outfiiter, who draws an income based on access, on the land while the farmer receives nothing in return. As for not allowing yanks on the land - again the farmer gains nothing by allowing freelancers on the land. So what the hell is the motivation for allowing Americans on the land...nothing! It's the farmers land and they can do with it what they want.<<<That seems to be a pretty American concept. And if people don't think the protest isn't working - well then why are we talking about?

Madgoat,

Our herds are clean, We had one cow with BSE out of how many? So did you guys, Yet our border is not closed. If you came up here with that sort of attitude its no wonder ranchers wont give you permission. I agree we should sell our cattle else where and get rid of american packing plants up here as well. We probily should look elsewhere to send our softwood lumber at the same time.

Bill,

I am not anti American at all. What I dont like is someone who tells us that folks down there are making a killing on our ranchers misfortune and are laughing about it. Several of our good friends are barley keeping a float. What do you think there reaction would be if they saw a post like Madgoats. Kind of like taking a punch on the nose then asking if I can hunt on your land. If the shoe was on the other foot would it be the same?

I guess the truth hurts Fred. All I'm saying is that cattle prices in Wyoming are better than they have ever been. Ranches that are having to sell off all their livestock due to the drought (since we have already had several years worth) are doing pretty darn well considering. Ranchers in Canada aren't the only ranches hurting!!!
If Canada thinks that they are going to put it to the USDA by not allowing access to hunt, they are wrong...all you are going to end up doing is missing out on nonresident hunting income as well. Maybe the ranches don't get paid for access, but American's don't stay in your motels, eat your food, buy your gas, or purchase licenses for free either.
Believe me, there is no shortage of beef in the US if Canada isn't in the picture.

MG

The idea is not to punish american hunters but rather to bring attention to the border being closed to Canadian cattle in any way possible.The bottom line is that the landowners have the legal right to control access to their land reguardless of whether or not this protest accomplishes anything.

I looked over the AFGA website for such a position paper, but did not find it. Can someone point me to it?

thanks...jim

This border war is nothing new. Just ask anyone who has fished on Lake of the Woods over the past 10 - 15 years!

Mulroney and gang followed by Cretien have really sold out western Canada. The free trade deal allowed American interests to suck Canada in. Before the free trade deals we had more varied markets. We were told a free North American market would mean easier access to a huge market so we bought in. In the span of a few years we turned away from long established customers and now the Americans are dictating what the new trade conditions are. Guess who moved into our old markets encouraged by export subsidies?
The signs are staying up on my land. In the past many landowners in my area used to welcome Americans and even take them out acting as unofficial guides to be sure they had an enjoyable holiday. That is no longer the case. In the area I hunt there are signs covering hundreds of sections of farm and pasture land and unlike past years farmers, rather than driving by hunters, are stopping to determine if they are Americans and telling them to leave.

It was not only "Lyin' Brian" who sold this country out, it has been going on since Confederation and is STILL going on as we write. Trudeau sold us out with "Official Bilingualism" and especially the destructive and false policy of "Multiculturalism", which has allowed newcomer minorities to dictate important government policy by castigating Canadians as "racist", if we dare to verbally endorse our heritage and traditions.

The sleazy media flacks and "left-lib" academic hacks have promoted this process until our own kids know nothing of our history, laws and cultural achievements. This makes it much easier for the "corporatist" elite in Canada to control the population at large, witness the current "gun control" imbroglio. Another disturbing aspect of this is the number of university graduates in Canada who cannot spell, construct a correct sentence or even engage in rational debate, I have encountered dozens of these individuals.

The idea that we can simply turn off the energy supply to the USA is comforting in times like these, but, it is ridiculous, given global economical-political reality. What we need to do is to play economic hardball with the USA and treat them as they treat us, period. If, they impose a duty on a given commodity, then we impose a soveignity tax plus an environmental surcharge on our energy exports; this in an amount of twice the duties they charge us.

Americans generally do not respect sniveling cowards who whine about issues and that is what is going on in Canada today. It's time to stand tall, as we did in both World Wars, stop the minorities dictating how our nation will operate and deal with the Yanks, the Brits and the Frogs as real Canadians have demonstrated we are capable of. Treating American hunters as unwelcome interlopers is NOT the way to do this, they are our allies and friends in the fight against the "gungrabbers".

Never could understand why you up north folks don't just let them frogs secede. Wouldn't you westerners be better off?

It is truely a shame that two of the best countries in the world have to bicker over some of the petty things our governments and bureaucrats get us into. I am Canadian and proud of it.Unfortunantly I am not very proud of a number of things our government does. I have some very close American friends who feel pretty much the same about their government. This BSE situation just seems to be another problem that is hurting both sides. For the record let it be known that it was an American rancher who owned the ranch in Canada that had the cow with BSE. There were also charges that he was feeding suppliment that was made from animal by-products. Such feed has been outlawed for several years in Canada . Madgoat has suggested that things are all rosy in Wyoming because the beef prices are high and there is no shortage of beef. I'm afraid not all americans would agree. Certainly not the 70to 80 people who were working at a 2 yr old slaughter house in the northern US. Shortly after the American border was closed to Canadian beef that slaughter house closed down. About 2 months ago that facility was sold and is being re-located to Dauphin Manitoba. Those peoples jobs are GONE. Other slaughter houses have cutback numbers of animals processed. This does not just mean fewer hours of work for slaughter house workers but the trickle down effect truckers,companies that supply products to the meat processing industry etc all lose. A few years ago most of the large slaughter houses in western Canada were bought up by a couple large US companies who promtly moved all operations south of the border. There are producer driven Co-ops poping up all over western Canada. There is talk of a large slaughter house going up into NE British Columbia. They are proposing testing ever animal for BSE. Japan can't wait for them to get on line becase they want every pound of Canadian beef they can get if its tested.See what happens to the price of beef in Wyoming when some of the offshore markets are drying up. No doubt about it, ranchers on both sides of the border have gone and are going through some tough times. Its too bad that people on both sides of the border can't see we have to work together to find solutions to problems like this.

I posted this to bring it to peoples attenion. It was not meant as a slwm to anyune, Cal Sibley and stubble jumper both had very good points. Our all knowing governments on both sides put thes regs in place. 2 cows , on on each side of the border were found infected. the US cow was imported from Canada as a hiefer. They were both fed fron the same feed mill. The point is farmers and ranchers on both sides have paid big and the push for no hunting was another divide and conquor move. We should work to resolve this, not make it bigger. This comes from people passing laws
and regulations when they don't know what they are doing.
Solve the problem, don't point fingers. Good luck to all.

My ancestors, on my mother's side, fought them frogs and won, but, more to the point is the fact that the Norse Vikings, the Scots, English, Irish,Germans and so forth are also founding members of this country and WE don't want one single ethnic group to breakup our country.

I have had Americans make this point before, sometimes rather offensively, my usual reaction is, why didn't you Yanks just let the C.S.A. secede and be done with it. Perhaps you think that the union of individual colonies that formed the USA is somehow more sacred than the Confederation that is Canada, the single most successful democracy in human history.We will resolve our internal differences without tragedies such as Shiloh, Antietam and Gettysburg, thanks just the same.

I agree with the gentleman who said that pointing fingers is NOT the way to deal with Canada-USA trade disputes; we hunters-gunnuts NEED to support each other, world wide and this forum, generously provided by Saeed, is an excellent means of working toward that end, IMO.