In ontario we cancelled a spring bear hunt,even though we had the bears.Weather we want to admit it or not,that plus other political issues have kept the american tourist/hunter at home.Now we're going to do the passport thing.Its a simple as this folks.monitoring our species survival may have to get done with brains rather than who's got the most money..Take for example a 10,000$ hunt in BC,AB or wherever.You just knew in the past you were going to see 90+% americans there..When we lost the american spring bear hunter here,we not only lost some outfitters.We lost things from frikin general stores to ice cream carts.The ripple effect was wild..When less americans are coming country wide due to the bull(and dont think it wont happen) are we going to morn the loss of some small outfitters,or are we going to have the ripple effect cross board..Let me put it this way.If when we locked out some business by closing the spring hunt we wouldnt have had stupid laws that say I couldnt invite a buddy from saskatchewan to hunt in the fall with me.The ripple businesses might have survived,cause hes gotta buy fuel ,licenses,etc etc.We gotta start thinking big pic and stop using the amount of $ a hunt cost as a species protector.And most of all stop treating fellow countymen as the alliens..Shes all going to change.

In my opinion (as an American), the Passport issue is not a big deal. I have had one for years and use it even when just flying Stateside. They are not hard to get and good for 10 years.

The bigger problem is the general economy and rising costs of hunting. Also, the haves are going to price out the have-nots and that will break a lot of outfits in my opinion. A similar thing has been happening in South Africa, the currency exchange changed and fewer people can afford the prices. A lot of game outfits will suffer in the long run.

You know the interesting thing about canada,is that back in 69 I said the liberals would sink the country.Everybody said"now how could one little group that we vote in ever do that????".WELL HUH

I know the CWD issue and certain states restricting or embargoeing the import of venison from some Canadian provinces has had a big impact on the choices of some friends of mine who opted out of a Canadian elk & deer hunt. My personal feelings are that all game ranches should be shut down and the animals destroyed. Fair chase and wild game needs to be the only way. Otherwise disease and the fear of cross specie spongiform virus transmission will give the antis more ammo to legislate the sport into oblivion. Persoannly I love going to Canada. Hate the dominant politics, but thats not why I go there. I would love to go on a moose hunt up there sometime.

Charger I agree with the ripple effect but theres no way black bear hunts over here are going for 10,000. Sorry to harp but dont want to turn away anyone thinking about travelling to alberta in the future.

Chris

It is the AMERICAN government who is requiring that all US residents have a passport for their return to the US from Canada. As much as I hate the liberals we can't blame everything on them.

The price of gas is going to curtail tourists and out-of-country hunters more than anything else these days.

Cariboo

I flew from Seattle to Van. so I could transfer to Ft. St John and an American on the plane was turned back by Canadian Passport Control for not having a passport. As you know all that was needed for ever was a Drivers Lic. He argued but to no avail and was told he would return on the next flight.

I don't know about American requirments, as I always carry my passport, but Canada is requiring it also.

I should have been more clear in my first response.

Yes Canada is requiring passports but only because the US decided to go that route first. If the yanks hadn't started to tighten up border security you can be damn sure our spineless leaders in Ottawa would not have thought of it on their own.

Boys, Boys...If we can go back to where I started this.I know I'm not the best at getting my thoughts accross,,but what I'm saying is this..Irregardless of how its done,fellow canadians should be making it easier not harder for folk from other prcvinces to come to their province..Cause some day more canuck bus. might be whats needed to make up for a loss in southern bus..And as you've all stated the finger cant be pointed at one thing...Heres an example..If I go to quebec I pay the same 200+ $$ for a caribou license as buddy from michigan..Oh hold on,he pays 155$ diff on the dollar..Oh ya what about the 4000$ cost of the trip he paid 3000 in his money for...Then theres the fact(and dont you dare tell me this one dont happen)that because more of his buddies are bound to go there in the future,he gets preferential treatment all week...All I'm saying is that the laws govering cross province hunting dont matter,The americans having more coin dont matter,etc,etc.What matters is that for years hunters wanting to hunt in other provinces have been made to feel like aliens...For god sake its reality..Our provincial govs should only be monitoring species by numbers,not by shunning out fellow canucks,and when I call elk outfitters out west.I get nothing but rudeness when its known I'm not a yank...Wouldnt it be better to treat our fellow countyman fairly?Like let him in to hunt.Imposse guidlines on him as to where ,when,the lkist is endless..But atleast you,ve made him feel welcome,and the economy as a whole has propered a bit.

I totally agree and have said this here before. I have also been savagely flamed on two different occasions on CGN for proposing the same thing; I was actually told by one poster that I did not have the "right" to hunt in northern B.C.because I happen to live in Vancouver. The ironic thing is that I was living and working and paying taxes in northern B.C. before this self-styled expert was born.

We need to keep Canadian resources for Canadians, not sell them to wealthy foreigners for the benefit of the few and to the detriment of the many. I would like to see the various Provincial governments systematically buy out every outfitter that has ANY foreign ownership and then auction these concessions off to Canadians.

The shabby treatment of residents by outfitters is a fact, I have experienced it when in a camp I paid to go to and so have others. The way to deal with this is to continue to press the various governments involved to change the rules; it won't be easy, but, it can be done.

HERE HERE>>>>I SECOND THE MOTION>>>ALL IN FAVOR

PS KUTENAY...Not to worry,I've found by times the members of CGN live up to the title.Not all of them,and not the whole title,just the N part

I used to live in NMN, during the winter several of us used to go to NW Ontario lake trout fishing, we would stay at a resort, eat and drink there. We bought gas and bait in Canada. There was never a large number of people doing this but we helped the resorter survive the winter. When the DNR cut the limit from 3 to 2 and closed off the few parking spots we used to unload our snowmoblies we quit going. Who was the big loser??? The resorted i would guess.. I also duck hunted the same area, when the spring bear season ended I quit going duck hunting as a protest again who lost??? The resorters, they are at the mercy of the government and the tree huggers...I anways had good times in Canada, but I seemed to me the Gov. was trying to drive me out, and they did.

This is a timely post as the TV news here in Vancouver reported only about two days ago, that a large protest against non-resident alien hunters shooting Black Bears off the beaches of northern Vancouver Island was taking place. Local Aboriginal tribes and the non-hunting tourist industry were the participants in this and they are pretty adamant about stopping non-resident hunting.

This is a rapidly increasing sentiment here and most B.C. hunters are, at best, ambivalent about foreign hunters killing our game for trophies. There are large areas of the Province where, I am informed, foreigners kill more Stone's Sheep per season that B.C. hunters do. This has to do with the B.C. Guide-Outfitters Association lobbying for restricted access to certain places so that only those with packtrains can get in there to hunt. Given the high percentage of foreign ownership of the B.C. hunting industry, many feel that our resources are being used to benefit outsiders, rather than B.C. people.

Those who "warn" us that our tourist industry will go bye-bye if we curtail or eliminate non-resident alien hunting should realize that this is NOT the first attempt by the larger tourist industry to stop trophy hunting here; it is only a matter of time. The substantially greater population pressures, demand for wilderness experience and the increased resident hunter interest in wild Sheep hunting all will have an effect on this.

Canada has changed greatly, since the days when Jack O'Connor and his like shot our Sheep by the dozens and more Canucks now think that hunting here should be reserved for our own people. I am ambivalent about the actual hunting as there are non-Canadians, including members of this board, that I would like to see come and experience B.C. hunting; but, I am absolutely against ANY foreign involvement/ownership period.

quote:

Originally posted by kutenay:
This is a timely post as the TV news here in Vancouver reported only about two days ago, that a large protest against non-resident alien hunters shooting Black Bears off the beaches of northern Vancouver Island was taking place. Local Aboriginal tribes and the non-hunting tourist industry were the participants in this and they are pretty adamant about stopping non-resident hunting.

The Vancouver Island hunt has to be just about the most expensive proposition for hunting black bear in north america. Granted the island carries a large number of trophy bear. IF it is banned, how many Canadian hunters will step up for the tags?

So do they want to ban non-canadians, non-BC residents or is the issue really an effort to stop hunting period. I am guessing the latter. It was the same when Ontario stopped the spring bear hunt. The resultant increase in nuisance bear was not expected by the anti-hunters. They really do not understand game management.

I may not have found all there was to the news report online, but six boats of eco-tour operators peacefully surrounding a guides boat asking to talk to the guide(who wasn't aboard at the time)isn't exactly earth shattering unless you read the line that they want to stop "ALL" bear hunting in BC.... no specific mention of non-resident alien hunting....this isn't exactly new. Considering the hunting industry does about $116 Million dollars a year and there are 2 to 3 million dollars put into government coffers each year from license fees, the eco-tour folks are going to have to grow a bit to gain equal influence......do you really think the government is going to do away with that revenue? Not until they have something to replace it with......politicians are the same in every country. I've hunted and fished a number of Canadian provinces......and I will again as long as it is allowed......my best friend is Canadian.....I'm hoping to hunt with him next Fall. These are troubled times for both our nations......our governments are doing things that are causing hard feelings....the governments will ruin things soon enough for us; we don't need to add to the mix through bigotry when it concerns our fellow hunters. I think the increase of resident interest in sheep hunting in BC can only mean good things for the sheep.....if that is at the expense of fewer or no tags for foreign hunters, so be it. The Native tribal groups and non-hunting factions of our countries will have much influence on the shape of things to come....much more than the "antis". One of the obvious ploys of the "antis" is to drive a wedge between us and these groups by any means available.......don't forget that these folks are part of the mix and, like them or not, we're going to need them on our side in the future......the "antis" can't make it without them either......give it some thought.....I hope that BC will always have the abundance of game and wild country that you have now....take good care of it, just don't love it to death.

Joe

our past prov government slapped a moratorium
on grizzly hunting and didn't even bat an eye
it took a change of government to remove it
they wern't worried about lost revenue

Yeah, but they were the NDP, who firmly believe that money grows on the magic money fairy bush in every white middle class males backyard. - dan

I have been involved in conservation in B.C., at some level, since 1960 and keep abreast of changing attitudes concerning anything to do with environmental issues. My opinion is that foreign hunting here is on the way out, for a variety of reasons and that this will happen within the coming decade. Much of this is demographic and quite a lot of it has to do with the rapidly increasing cultural differences between the USA and Canada which will, I think, continue to grow for the forseeable future.

Bigotry has nothing to do with this as there is no racial, religious, sexual or appearance motivated aspect to this situation, it is driven by increasing domestic demand as well as the foregoing factors. To impute discriminatory motives to Canadians who are concerned about our resources, our sovereignity and our managment thereof is, IMO, a "scarlet mackerel" and demonstrates a lack of understanding of contemporary Canadian/B.C. social attitudes.

I question the figures given concerning the hunting industry and returns to government, I suspect that these are not consistent with the current situation concerning non-resident alien hunting here in B.C. If, they are correct, then the government which represents we B.C. citizens is actually receiving relatively little for the taking of very rare and desirable wildlife, this should be addressed.

The concept that we hunters worldwide are a "happy band of brothers" is romantic, but, hardly realistic. When foreigners can gain access to game and hunting opportunities denied, by any means, to B.C. residents, fraternal feelings are not too likely. I have found that most B.C. hunters, except that very small minority that work in the Guide-Outfitter business, are quite strongly opposed to non-resident hunting and indications are that this will grow.

I agree that the Black Bear hunts on northern Vancouver Island are exhorbitant and they are boring as well. But, they have become trendy due to gun magazine types hunting there and the easy, road accessible hunting style. In any event, non-resident hunting is not a major contributor to B.C.'s coffers and the various, competing interest groups are extremely unlikely to assist hunters with maintaining things as they now are.

If, I were a nonn-resident hunter and wanted to hunt here, I would do it as soon as possible and I would also refrain from commenting about Canadian decisions concerning our policies as we Canucks have this curious idea that WE own this country and WE will decide how to run it. Courteous behaviour that is respectful of our absolute sovereignity will usually elicit help from resident Canadian hunters, me included.....a word to the wise.....

I have been hunting and fishing in Canada for thirty years now and all of my past companions have quit coming to Canada. Except for Newfoundland and New Brunswick it is just getting to be too much bother and expense. The people up north are great, but the fish and game wardens seem to want to harrass US citizens as much as possible.

Mikelravy
Some years ago,I was hoping for an elk hunt out west. I called a wak of outfitters. What I got was down right arrogance/rudeness,you name it from my own countrymen..What I finally found out from one who had retired,is that they didnt consider their fellow countrymen fertile ground...I said "WHAT?"..He explained..If I somehow come up with the funds to go, of all the 50 people I come back and tell, MAYBE 1 can afford to come..When he gets an american up,he goes back and tells 500,400 of them can afford to come..Would you like that in your own country??????I know lots of americans.I know the true answer.
P.S. Between our gov.and our businesses(small&large)canada has been an open warehouse for southerners to come and get their needs for to long.So long we've become unproud peasants. Case in point westerners, hows the soft wood and cattle prices????????????

quote:

When less americans are coming country wide due to the bull(and dont think it wont happen) are we going to morn the loss of some small outfitters,or are we going to have the ripple effect cross board..

I just came back from Canada after a very successful spring bear hunt. Our group was five for five! All of us had passports (what's the big deal????) and none of us was hassled at the border (Crossing at I-87 in Northern New York near Montreal). We had two rifles each, paid the $25.00 canadian dollars each for bringing the rifles in, and that was that.

I was the only one who spoke passable french, but with a bit of hand-and-foot work, all of us made it work, and we all had a terrific time. we were in Quebec, well, 200 or so miles west of Quebec in a town called Roberval on Lac St. Jean. The hunting was about another 80 miles west of that.

We booked again for next year, this time we booked the entire party of eight!

I really don't think that just getting a passport will or should diminish business in Canada.

The rising costs of fuel and the exchange rates of course are a totally other issue. it is hard to say now where we will be a year from now. But, how much will a hunt increase due to fuel??? $100.00??? or the economy? $500.00??? I will still go and many will think the same way.

Salut,

Marianne

Guys,

Heading to Ontario in November for a deer hunt, can someone tell me the latest changes in travel requirements. I've seen a number of comments about needing a passport this year instead of ID and birth certificate. Tks

It really wouldn't hurt to have a passport even though it isn't required yet. They are asking at the US border. There is also the little matter of registering your firearms before entering Canada. Perhaps one of the other guys can provide a link since my poor tired old brain can't remember tha stuff! derf

quote:

Originally posted by Marianne:

quote:

When less americans are coming country wide due to the bull(and dont think it wont happen) are we going to morn the loss of some small outfitters,or are we going to have the ripple effect cross board..

I just came back from Canada after a very successful spring bear hunt. Our group was five for five! All of us had passports (what's the big deal????) and none of us was hassled at the border (Crossing at I-87 in Northern New York near Montreal). We had two rifles each, paid the $25.00 canadian dollars each for bringing the rifles in, and that was that.

I was the only one who spoke passable french, but with a bit of hand-and-foot work, all of us made it work, and we all had a terrific time. we were in Quebec, well, 200 or so miles west of Quebec in a town called Roberval on Lac St. Jean. The hunting was about another 80 miles west of that.

We booked again for next year, this time we booked the entire party of eight!

I really don't think that just getting a passport will or should diminish business in Canada.

The rising costs of fuel and the exchange rates of course are a totally other issue. it is hard to say now where we will be a year from now. But, how much will a hunt increase due to fuel??? $100.00??? or the economy? $500.00??? I will still go and many will think the same way.

Salut,

Marianne

Most of the complaining is comming from people who don't travel here to hunt. The "why would I's" are armed with too many assumptions.

I'm glad your group had a great time. Thanks for the positive outlook.

I don't think the cost of hunting guided here will ever kill the industry. If aliens stop purchasing hunts due to the overpriced fees, then the guiding opporations will start offering more competative prices. As long as they're allowed to hunt our provinces they will be arriving. Maybe there will only be 2 year waiting lists instead of four.