I'm looking for an outfitter with a good success record for bighorn sheep.

I was successful this year on a 36" Stone with Tahlton Outfitters out of BC. They were a great group of guys and had an absolute blast with them. But, they don't do bighorns.
I have emailed Sheepcreek Outfitters to get some info from them but I don't know anything about them.
So, any recommendations would be appreciated.

BTW sheep hunting is expensive, addictive and the most satisfying hunt I've ever had the pleasure of pursuing. It has been my only time to hunt in Canada and I thoroughly enjoyed everyone I came in contact with. I've hunted Alaska, Africa and several states in the US and hands down Canada has been the best time I've had. It wasn't just all the game you have, it was the people I came in contact with that made it such a great experience. Just wished it wasn't so darned expensive to get up there and hunt or I would plan a hunt up there every year.
Thanks again.

Try http://www.saddlemountainoutfitters.ca/

Give Neil a call. He is extremly honest and will work his butt of for you. I have knowen him for 25 years and he is good.Ask questions and he will not BS you. He has also been a board member for FNAWS up here for the past 10 years.

You need to be careful in BC and Alberta on grizzly bears and sheep.

The outfitters are booking 4 or 5 guys and only have 2 liscenses. They are saying it is going to start in the Yukon and NWT next.

I have read several acounts of this happening in AB and BC in the past few years.

I would ask how many sheep tags he has and how many he has booked.

One of the guys on the site, can't remember a name was booked for a bear and had one in his scope and the outfitter pulled his barrel off the bear before the shot went off, then told him he still had another client coming and only had one bear liscense.

No offence intended, but, I seriously doubt that a BC Guide-Outfitter would behave this way with a paying client, especially a foreigner. This is because they solicit much of their business at SCI, FNAWS and RMEF conventions and other such buntosses and any client so treated would likely complain loud and long to the various boffins of these groups and thus blacken the GO's reputation.

So, it seems to me that this may be an internet legend and is probably untrue. I might be wrong, but, with the preferential treatment of foreign hunters and GOs over residents by the current BC gov't., I doubt it. Details?????

I to would have to wonder at that tale. Have not heard of it happening in Alberta, and there is no Grizzly season here, so not to worry about that.
It would be a poor practice for any outfitter to do, and in the sheep hunting world, which is not that large, it would spell disaster for there business.

Dewey,
I was the said client in the story. When I booked the hunt I was told that he only had one griz tag availble and that I would be the only one hunting that year for griz. When he stopped me from shooting the bear he never mentioned that he had another client coming in to hunt griz after me. I found out when we returned to the float base and met the next hunter coming in to hunt griz and how excited he was. IT got very expensive for the outfitter when my lawyer got involved and the facts started to come out.

FWIW I contacted BC F&W and the BC GOA and they saw nothing wrong with this pratice of double booking for one tag in the same year. I think the problem exists because the tag is not tied to a hunter until an animal is registered. If one were to actually track how many huntrs are tied to a tag I think the results would be shocking. How many non-res griz tags are sold vs actual allocations availble for any givn year?

You are saying that a LEGAL BC GO actually physically prevented you from shooting a LEGAL Grizzly for which you had the correct.legal non-res. tag and had fully paid for this privilege????

You further state that the MOE in Victoria or the District Manager would not do anything about this action, although it is patently
against the regs. concerning interference with legal hunters?????

The GOABC is a totally biased organization and only recently sent me an e-mail in which they quite rudely defended a GO who had, with an Albertan client, been convicted of serious breaches of the BC Wildlife Act. So, anything that they did/did not do, is largely irrelevant, IMO.

My question is very simple, WHO was this GO and WHEN did this occur? I think that it would assist others here IF they knew the exact details and since you post that such an outrageous event happened, it seems only fair to also post ALL relevant details.

I have to say, I am HUGELY surprised by this and it certainly is not a business practice I would condone. BC guided hunting by non-res. trophy collectors is soon to be a memory as public opposition to this is growing here, but, while I tend to support a "res. only" policy, I certainly do not agree with behaviour like this!

I would also have sued and I hope the pri*k DID pay until he "bled".

Dark,

Thanks for the lead. I sent Neil an email.

This practice has been going on in Canada by un-ethical outfitters for a long time. More than 15 years ago I was on a Stone sheep hunt in BC and had an excellent guide who had turned down a job offer from a competing outfitter (long since deceased). During the interview, the outfitter told him he would be expected to "drill a few dry holes" with some clients from time to time. My guide ran from that outfitter as fast as he could.

It is relatively easy for an outfitter to hunt a marginal area or an area that holds only ewes, lambs, and immature rams without the hunter being any the wiser. Even the best, most ethical, outfitters have unsuccessful hunts with the average success rates for Stone sheep running far less than 100%. Fortunately, I truly believe that the vast majority of outfitters are highly ethical, but there are some bad apples out there. The only way to half-way protect yourself is to book only with established outfitters, thoroughly do your research, check references, and be leery of any deal that sounds too good to be true. Even then, it doesn't hurt to have a little luck on your side!

I have just received a PM from Canuck32 and I TOTALLY believe his comments, NO question. I am just nauseated by this and it seems that not ONLY we res. hunters are being screwed by GOs here in BC.

I need to think about this as I have the "germ" of an idea developing and I think that it is high time BC/Canadian hunting is seriously reformed. Maybe A DRAW SYSTEM for non-res. hunters who could then pick a guide for their sheep, Grizzly or whatever hunt????

I still believe that until an animal allocation is tied to a hunter/licence for that season and no other hunter can use that same allocation until the following season nothing will change.
It is too easy for GO to say well that's hunting, sometimes your sucessfull and sometimes not when in fact the outcome was prearranged.

I live here in BC and have heard the same things and one of the cases is from a reputable outfitter. He books more clients then he has tags for. He tries to get every hunter a sheep but if you are the last guy and the tags have already been filled you get a 10 day horseback trip looking at ewes and immature rams with out knowing you have no chance at shooting a legal ram. And since the guide is such a nice guy he offers the guy (for another 25-30 grand) a hunt next year and he guarentees a ram.

I kind of thought that this was here say until I ran into a couple of hunters while sheep hunting in the guides territory. The hunters were residents but one of the guys was a guide up north. He said they shot a ram a few days earlier. I guess they spotted this ram and noticed the outfitter was also looking at the sheep. Not wanting to step on any toes they approached the outfitter and he said the ram was not legal. So the resident hunters climb up the mountain and get within a couple hundred yards of the ram and see he is definately legal.

They are humming and hawing about shooting it when they notice the outfitter has climbed the mountain and is also looking at the ram. They again approach the outfitter and client to help the client out. The outfitter again says the ram is not legal. The residents say it is and the client can shoot it if he wants. They even say they will take the outfitter to their glassing spot so he can see thats its clearly legal. The outfitter again says the rams is not legal (I saw pictures of their ram and there is no doubt that you could mistake it for being not legal).They try and persuade the guide to let the client shoot the ram and even ask the client if its what he is looking for. The client says he wants a legal ram, does not care what size. So they say shoot the ram. The outfitter once again says its not legal. The residents walk back to their glassing spot and once again confirm the legality of the ram so they shoot the ram. They did not know why the outfitter would not even take their offer to help get the ram. They were stumped.

Not till I was home and I was thinking about did it occur to me of what I had heard about this outfitter and it made more sence if any.

If I was looking at booking a hunt I would ask the outfitter for references for all the sheep hunters he had the last 3 years (those that killed and those that did not). Then I would phone the Ministry and see how many permits the guy had each year. This could shed some light on if the outfitter is double booking.

BHB

I've been on 3 Stone Sheep Hunts with 2 different Outfitters.. This Year i finally saw a Ram.. It is a Deep Dark Hole That Stone Sheep Hunting..
AK

Well that is always the problem when one is making a living from the resource. Greed takes over, or some only get into it for the money in the first place. I was offered a job as the outfitter for an american owned outfit in BC, it took only one call to find out how bad a crook he was. I know the guy who did take the job, he ended up with a bunch of charges, and only saved his bacon tesitying against the outfitter. Don't think he is in the business anymore.
In Alberta, do they not have allocations, and when you sell a hunt that allocation is used for that hunter only?
That prevents them from selling multiple hunts for one tag. Of course for the dishonest there is always ways around that too.

Canuck32 hope that it worked out on the money end, but a missed oportunity to shoot a big bear sucks.

I would like to post a few pictures with a story relevant to this thread but seem to be unable to do so. Any suggestions?

I've been in this business a long time and have run across quite a few Canadian outfitters who sell more sheep and grizzly hunts than they have tags for. If you are not one of the chosen ones, for whatever reason, you won't be told a thing. But your guide will spend the whole hunt with you in a place that doesn't have what you're looking for. Check references very carefully, because you cannot count on them telling you the truth when you ask how many hunters they have booked for x amount of tags.

That just makes my stomach turn. the government makes you use an outfitter but doesn't police them, WOW. I know I only one person but hearing that makes me want to avoid Canada all together. I guess asside from stone sheep there is nothing a guy can't get in the lower 48 and AK anyway.

You should be aware that MOST of the top Stone's Sheep outfitters ARE Americans who usen Canadian resident "frontmen" to operate the concessions that they have invested in. I know of several major operations which have at least majority ownership by Americans and some by Germans.

Among these is "Canadian Mountain Outfitters", owned by the favourite outfitter of many big name American gunwriters, Bryan Martin. He has been twice convicted of offences under the BC Wildife Act and this within less than two years and there are other incidents of American outfitters doing things such as threatening resident BC hunters with a rifle and so on.

MANY BC people simply want to shut down ALL non-res. hunting here and so making this into a BC or Canada bashfest is only going to encourage such attitudes. The FACT is that the current system here, as in many other jurisdictions in North America, is in dire need of reform and WE hunters are the only ones who can and, one hopes, WILL do it.

Hunting in BC, by non-res. trophy collectors is of NO real financial value to BC citizens AND it DOES remove several thousand of our finest game specimens per annum from OUR harvest total...wanna avoid Canada, especially BC and the finest REAL hunting left anywhere, hey, GREAT, more game for us!

i'm not trying to turn this into a bashfest. sorry if that's how I came across. I'll admit I didn't realize so many of the outfitters were owned by Americans. Maybe American outfitters is the problem. Sounds like it would be in BC's interest to limit it to Canadian outfitters.

I just think it's sad when you hear about such problems. I would ultimately like to hunt BC but also don't want to get ripped of no matter where I hunt or who owns the outfit.

Since this thread has digressed into another area I'll throw in what my outfitter in BC said. The original outfitter had owned the same business since the 60's. When he tried to sell it he couldn't find any buyers who were of a. indian decent (the business is named after an indian tribe) who could pay the going rate and b. couldn't find any Canadians who could get the financing to put it together. After several years he was able to find two buyers but he had to help finance the business himself.

That exemplifies a problem that has emerged and grown in recent years due to the huge increase in costs of, for example, Stone's Sheep hunts. As long as you have trophy collectors willing to pay 40K for a rare Stone's ram, you will have outfitting territories "worth" an asking price well in excess of 1M $$$$$.

Canadian banks seem FAR more conservative than US ones do and the young guide who wants to become an outfitter usually cannot obtain financing, hence, the flood of foreign cash into the industry. This then results, all too often, in some totally unacceptable behaviour by the foreign-owned GO operation and subsequent resentment by BC citizens.

You will also have the Guide-Outfitters actively lobbying the gov't. for increasing restrictions on RESIDENT hunting access, harvest quotas and demands for aerial "control" of apex predators such as Wolves, this partially funded by our taxes.

This situation plus the lack of willingness by SOME major GOs to take res. hunters into their "best" areas, while taking Americans paying BIG moola, has/is leading to an increase in the attitude I refered to concerning a permanent ban on all non.-res. hunting here.

I honest believe that this will happen and much sooner than many realize, mind you, given the BS that some here have endured, I can see why one would hesitate to come to BC for a hunt, to pay huge costs and be denied even an opportunity at a legal animal.

I doubt that enough people will take action on this for it to change and I tend to favour simply eliminating all foreign investment/ownership of BC GO concessions and a mandatory draw system every year for their quota. This would help to eliminate any shenanigans and keep the GOs honest; as others opine, a tag should be tied to the GOs harvest and ONLY the number of tags issued to his hunters that he has a quota for.

With the current "neo-con" bunch of landrapers in power, this will not happen and the alternative is a bunch of socialists led by a dippy fembo who is married to an aboriginal....not much hope for decent hunters there.........