Here is a link to the poll.
www.calgaryherald.com/Q

Thanks stubblejumper. We should all get off our asses and vote on this one, I did. Why oh why don't all these people realize that habitat destruction does more harm to wildlife populations than hunting.

the chef

That is NOT always the case, certain wildlife populations have been, can be and still are being impacted by sports hunting in an unsustainable manner. The "habitat protection" mantra has been used by hunters as a "one size fits all" comment on population levels and hunting seasons/limits for years; it is often, but not invariably the major limiting factor in these situations.

What we NEED are more wildlife biologists and foresters with post-graduate degrees AND the funding to co the studies that will give us hard data to present to the political decision makers before decisions are made. I think that the biologists who are in favour of a temporary cessation in the AB. Grizzly hunt may actually know what they are doing and NO hunting of ANY species should be legally allowed UNLESS the bio-assay work necessary to determine population levels is done first.

I agree with Kutenay. However I would like to see this study produce an reasonablly accurate inventory of bears so we can go from there with a practical management plan. I doubt we will get concrete numbers from these studies (somebody will fudge the numbers to support an agenda) and believe this will result in a politically correct game management plan rather than a biologically sound one. This is the end of grizzly hunting in Alberta as we know it. Dosen't matter to me as I wouldn't shoot one anyway but I support a hunt if the population allows for it.

I don't know what will happen here, but over in Europe, in most cases, when it's gone, it's gone, simply because no political party cares enough to put reopening on the agenda. Hopefully hunters have a bit more political clout here in Alberta...

I'm just worried about what will be next. Now that the grizz is safe for a while, what will the anti's turn to now?

Frans

Kutenay I agree with you. On the other hand they can develope the bow river corridor around Canmore and make billions doing it. In that case it's fuck the Grizzlies we're makin money here. In the hunters case it's screw the hunters we need all the grizzlies we can get to maintain population numbers---so we can justify ripping up some other sensitive area to develop. I have no interest in hunting Grizzlies but it still pisses me off, everywhere I look there's more and more development. And all the developers who are going to jump on me regarding this matter can just piss off.


the chef

I keep trying to tell people here that the REAL problem in western Canada is, IMMIGRATION, and the consequent rise in demand for the kind of houses, properties and amenities that only the very wealthy can afford in Asia, for example. For every genuinely worthwhile immigrant/new Canuck like our buddies, Frans, PeterPan and some others, who actually care about the environment, we are getting hordes of non-traditional moneygrubbers who just want to gobble up OUR wild heritage as fast as they can and to hell with Canadian values.

As long as people support politicians like that fat, drunken slob "Ralph", you will get the destruction that we are presently experiencing and it is going to get a hell of a lot worse, after this ludicrous Olympic shindig (which we will pay for) as even more of these types will crowd into OUR country. You can't have it both ways, either it's "progress" (a word I hate) and a "booming economy", OR, it's a conserver society based on traditional Nordic values of living in tune with Creation; I agree on development, but, stopping the destruction means a massive change in Canadian political policy and that doesn't seem likely.

I've been at this since 1960 and I am not very hopeful, to be frank, greed and short-sighted ignorance always seem to triumph over honour and wisdom.......

OK, I'm going out on a limb here and state that I've seen what "non-traditional" immigration in combination with extreme tolerance can do. I put " " to indicate that in the country I'm refering to it actually wasn't non-traditional.

Influx of large groups of mediterranean workers in the 60's and 70's (solicited by the same government that increased wellfare to the level that native Dutch people refused to take low-end jobs), provision of facilities that allowed them to live their lives like they never left home, financial support for their families while they weren't even in our country, preaching of tolerance to the extreme, etc, etc, have led to polarization. You cannot allow this type of influx of "strange" elements into a society without causing resentment, and opposition. This is often quickly and foolishly labeled as racism. I call it protection of culture, and values.

I came to Canada, ready to accept its culture, ready to contribute to its well being, and willing to let go of some of my cultural identity, in return for a cleaner living environment for me and my family, access to the great outdoors, a better quality of life. I truly resented it back in The Netherlands, and I resent it now, to see immigrants that do not speak the language of their host country. I've seem immigrants that lived in the NL for a decade that could not speak Dutch. In down town Calgary it is not hard to find immigrants that don't speak English. While this may be acceptable for seasonal workers, or people that are in the country for a limited time, I find it inexcusable for immigrants that are planning to build a life in their new country. And this is just one example.

Canada is unfortunately, and obviously making the same mistakes as we did in the Netherlands, and it will come back to haunt us.

Frans

[QUOTE]
As long as people support politicians like that fat, drunken slob "Ralph", you will get the destruction that we are presently experiencing and it is going to get a hell of a lot worse, after this ludicrous Olympic shindig (which we will pay for) as even more of these types will crowd into OUR country. You can't have it both ways, either it's "progress" (a word I hate) and a "booming economy", OR, it's a conserver society based on traditional Nordic values of living in tune with Creation; I agree on development, but, stopping the destruction means a massive change in Canadian political policy and that doesn't seem likely.
[QUOTE]

That is the real problem, everyone wants a piece of the pie and nobody will give it up. Seems everyone can ignore the dire effects this developement has on our environment as long as theyre getting some material or financial benefit. Its these same problem causing material gobbling people who are the first knee jerk reactors to chastise and blame hunters for grizzly decline and feel good about it. Then they go plan on a new resort or subdivision in prime habitat, then wonder why grizzly bears are missing, shrug their shoulders and think to themselves, phuckin hunters killed them all.

Kute, i don't know what to think about "Ralph". I often wonder what things would be like if we had had the liberals or NDP here for the last decade and a half and their typical deficit style spending programs. I think our situation would be worse, there would be more developement than there is now simply because they would have laid waste to the resource and oil money and be craving even more development to keep afloat the deficit we would have now if those other parties were in power. Frankly I'm scared of what is to come when "king Ralph" is gone. There are a whole bunch of socialists who want power, got their eyes on our resources with many ideas and ways to lay waste to this fortune we have here. Im afraid the "spend it right now crowd" will eventually win out here as it has in every other province. If this happens then the real destruction of the woods will begin just so they can support all the anti Canadian immigrants and social policies they want to bring in. All I ever hear from the opposition parties is we want more money here and there and for this and that. The more spent, the more the environment will suffer to pay for it all.

I take offense to the fat drunken slob premier ralph.I do take it you live in B.C.I just would like to see what our province would be like now with governments like saskatchewans,manitobas and BC's.I love our province and our premier has done a wonderful job.I did not vote for him in the last election because of some stupid things he has said but I still wanted a conservative government.More jobs and opportunities here than anywhere else I know of.Ralph has also hunted with friends of mine and Hid dad owned a hydraulic shop in spruce grove that I dealt with for many years.Still deal with the same shop.Most of the people that do not like him are the big pro union types and government assistance people.I work in forestry and have a hard time finding people to work because of all the jobs and if he says to some unemployed homeless to get their act together and get a job good on him! Wish I could have said it myself.I may be wrong but wasn't bc's premier nailed for impaired driving in hawaii a few years ago???It is easy to poke sticks at someone when they are on the top.Ralph would be welcome at my table or campfire anytime!!