Kutenay - Thanks for bringing up a subject that needs more attention. It is not just BC where these problems are in evidence. It is just more obvious when a game species, like sheep, has a smaller population. I would like to say one thng in defence of hunting YANKS everywhere. We are not our government. What Washington DC has to say about NAFTA isn't relevant to the worthiness of Americans to hunt sheep.

I enjoy your writing on a number of forums and see eye to eye with you in most matters. But, I think you would hate to be judged by OTTOWA's policies, and I know I am no poster child for the D of C. Of course I work for a living, so I won't ever be able to afford to sheep hunt.

With sheep hunts being so expensive, you can bet that the industry supports politicians that support the industry. It is the way of modern politics, maybe of politics since eternity began. There are many, many, international treaties that make certain that local control of wildlife resources is impossible. That is why you voters in BC have about as much control of your destiny as I have of your destiny voting here in CA: none.

I want to make one thing absolutely clear; this thread IS NOT about Americans, Iraq, Geo. W. Bush or ANYTHING ELSE except Canadians, our resources and the proper management and distribution thereof. I mentioned Yanks because they are the dominant group involved, I would have mentioned Samoans if they were the hunters-foreign based Guide-Outfitters in question. Please, keep your thoughts coming, I am planning some writing on this in the new year and value everyone's input very much.

Dan, what can I say, the Quebecers are the least highly sexed and by far the least virile Canucks......good thing you don't have the rest of us down there among the 'Gators and the 'Glades, none of your women would want to stay home, once they "knew" a Canuck!!!!

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Frans

Tags are issued by conservation first, residents second and guides tag third. So the contracts guides have are based on wildlife management, so permits can be pulled anytime if the numbers go down, the way it should. I would also be upset if guarenteed tags were pulled if it said that in the contract.

Problems arise when tag numbers reach low numbers, guides think they should still get tags. Like if there are two sheep tags for everybody, residents get one and the guides want one. Now their harvest is 100% of the residents not 10%.

Alex

Kutenay

You say I should not discriminate against hunters from Ontario and Quebec, but you are discrimintaing against rich hunters from the states whats the difference. As the above post said I doubt the hunters have much say in Washington.

Guides are suppose to get only 10% of the resident harvest in agiven area. Stone sheep numbers are down in region 7, that is why you are only allowed to take one ram in 3 years. The guides tags in that same area have also been drastically cut, some guides have lost half their sheep permits. The way it should be. The problem with the guides is they bought the area and it came with 15 sheep tags at 20,000 a pop. Now they only have 8 tags and they are crying fowl becuase they still have to make payments on their 1,000,000 mortgage for the territory. I say too bad.

The guides are always going to have their 10%, that is fair and I am sure they have a contract with the gov. Now you want to take tags out of remaining 90% and give it to other provinces. Now you start handing out tags, then the natives will want their share to either guide or kill themselves. And do you blame them, why should somebody from out of province get tags before them as they have traditional rights and they live here. The next thing you know, is we will be on a draw system for every sheep in BC like it is in the states. I say no thanks.

Another problem people bitch at the guides is becuase they are successful. I have heard people complain about guides killing 4 sheep and residents killing nothing, and their tags should be reduced. Well the gov have numbers in their heads on what is sustainable for each region. The guides tags never exceed this number. If the residents started killing rams in that area, then the guides tags may be reduced. So why should the guides be penalized for resident incompitantcies. The guides have the resources the equiptment and the time in the woods to take 4 rams every year, why should they be penalized.

Alex

I know only 2 BC outfitters, and they are great guys.

However, if I was hunting in an area, and an outfitter told me to move along, go hunt somewhere else, I'd laugh in his face.

I'll show respect to other BC hunters, by not hunting in an area that they clearly are in, but I will not leave soem drainage or valley so someone else can hunt there.

We were hunting in the Tuchodi river area this fall, and some outfitted guys (who clearly saw our base camp) walked right by it, into the area we were hunting. it's Crown Land, so it's thier right. Just don't tell me that I can't go where an outfitter wants to go...And I won't tell the outfitter the same thing

kutenay, I'd be pleased to cut a deal with you. I'll personally ensure that all of our Yank-offs will stay out of your woods if you'll keep that enormous percentage of Quebec out of Florida every winter. The ones I'm really concerned about are those that catch all of our fish, shoot so much of our small game and copulate with our women. The ones driving on I-95 are a pain in the ass too. Is that because of the French influence? Gads, if it weren't for Canada, the roads would never get crowded down here. there might even be a couple of virgins left!

I don't think you need worry too much about ME coming to YOUR country to shoot your critters. Now I know that really hurts, but how about this deal I offered, what say?

Hello;
The big problem in Alberta is, that other than for Big horn Sheep, Outfitters are not restricted in numbers or to a certain territory. There are some Gentlemen out there, but most of them are part timers out to make a quick buck. I get really pised off, having to share my hunting area with 3 or 4 outfitters, all of whom think they have divine rights. I have had a couple of conflicts with these people over the years, from polite suggestions I hunt the next drainage to one instance where I had to restrain my wife from killing the asshole. Maybe you know him Frans, since he lives down your way, Stan Reiser. For you , who saw Project Grizzly, he was the outfitter involved. In another case a few years ago, we had a couple of these guys get in a fist fight about who would hunt where. I fel sorry for the people who pay to hunt with this scum.
Grizz

Brassbender.

"Am I the only one who finds this statement amazing??? Here�s a Canadian bemoaning the fact that Americans come to his country and pay extortionist rates to hunt big game, and at the same time claims that we are abusing his countrymen by buying their natural resources at unconscionably low prices. In both instances, it is the Canadians who are establishing the prices and demanding the wages, and then when an Americans shows up with the money, we are somehow screwing Canada."

If you find the prices extortioist then don't pay. We won't miss you if you'd rather play hunt in a pasture in Texas. At least there you will get your moneys worth as the deer, I hear, have the price tag in their ear.
THe issue of similar prices for energy was a trade off by us who expected fairness on issues such as beef, pork, wheat and softwood. We were willing to give some and get some as in all bargaining. What is most infuriating to Canadians is the blatant disregard shown by US protectionists who despite international rulings still levy what the WTO has ruled illegal duties, tarrifs etc. Follow the rules you signed on to and virtually all Canadian complaints will be silenced. Keep disrupting trade for the benefit of pressure groups in the US and one day the taps and switches may be turned off.
Attitudes such as yours have led to thousands of farmers posting their land so as to keep Americans out. Many of these areas will remain posted. This was land that Americans could formerly access FREE OF CHARGE. No extortionist pricing then but NO ACCESS now.

I am trying to see the point of this but I dont understand how NAFTA has anything to do with outsiders coming to Canada to hunt I am american, but DO NOT AGREE with NAFTA. And I think that most americans will not, and that is why Bush was elected again. Even though some people in this world call the U.S. people "stupid" for doing so. But on the same terms, I am kinda hurt by some of this. If an outsider (or as some say aliens)was to come to the U.S. for any reason, I would hope they were from Canada before any other country. I well at least thought that the U.S. and Canada were on better terms than this. I do understand that what this knucklehead is saying does not reflect what all Canadians believe but I have never herd anybody in the U.S. complain about any Canadian coming here to do as they please and spend their money as they see fit. I have a hunting trip planned in the spring to come to Canada for bear. I guess that if I still decide to go, I will need to expect to possibly be welcomed by some, and stoned by others. I didnt think it would be like this. If I would have known, that some Canadians dislike amarican hunters so much, I would have opted to spend my vacation money here in the U.S. Oh well.

Very touchy subject. Not to defend all that the guides do, but some of them have invested a lot of capital into their ventures and seek only to ensure a good return. Several of this areas guides are good customers and friends of mine. In most cases, it was the friendship that precipitated the commercial relationship. There are other issues that I think deserve closer scrutiny. One is the "native" hunting rights, if you can stretch the definition of "hunting" that far to include what they do. Another is the "transporter" (packer) issue. Plain and simple, these guys are guiding and should be shut down. Because the packers have nothing at stake (if the game pops. aren't there, they go elsewhere), they don't care about the quality of the game that is harvested nor the populations. I don't think it's fair to chastize someone because they have the resources to go on a hunt. I would love to do Africa, but, sadly, a little too dear for me at this time. But if you have the means, knock yourself out! If you choose to invest in a packtrain and tack to get into the Tuchodi, go for it! That's what the guides have done! To hold the guides responsible for our fuck-up politician's whims is misplaced blame. The guides lobby to get things, but in the end it is the spineless politicians that are to blame. And we elect the bastards, time and time again! I haven't run into the animosity of the resident/guide thing. Not that I would give two shits if they were upset at me being there. I do take an aggressive stance as to "I am a resident!" and back off! I have more of a right to hunt where I please than any non-res/alien/commercial enterprise!