If so where and with whom?I am awaiting the results of the draw for Quebec 22A.I am looking forward to hunting with Nouchimi camp outfitters in November of 2006.I just can't wait.I don't know which rifle to use.Hey Canadian Lefty are you going caribu hunting regardless of the draw ?If so with whom?

quote:

whom?I am awaiting the results of the draw for Quebec 22A.I am looking forward to hunting with Nouchimi camp outfitters in November of 2006.I just can't wait.I don't know which rifle to use.Hey Canadian Lefty are you going caribu hunting regardless of the draw ?If so with whom?

Use the rifle that you have the most confidence in.

I will be going regardless of the draw, but I will be hunting in Labrador. There are a couple of outfitters that I've used up there in the past and it will depend on where the caribou are and when they open the area on who I choose to hunt with. As a fall-back, I may hunt in Quebec, but it will be late season- around end of Jan.

I reserved for the second hunt, (week before thanksgiving), at Kiskamaastakin in 22B. Looking forward to the hunt, but not the drive up. BD

The drive up is easy (anticipation), it is the drive back that is long.

What dates?

Read my post SCREWED BY OUTFITTER hope your luck is better than mine.

I live in Quebec, know the outfitters to deal with and will not get screwed- luck has nothing to do with it- it is research.

I did not read your thread, but if you got screwed, please let people know and file a hunt report and possibly take legal action if necessary. That is too bad to hear.

The drive up is nice, scenary and all more fun if you bring a shotgun and bird hunt.The drive down is long because you are very tired and chances are yo are coming back to a big pile of work and tired faces at work.

The drive up is 30 hours. The daylight hours are enjoyable if it's not icy. I could live without the night driving, particularly when it's icy. Hopefully luck gets involved only in whether the Caribou are down in time or not. BD

It's hell but those dilicious hamburgers all year long are worth the ride.Got to take the trip slow and make it a relaxing and enjoyable trip.One thing I found really helps is leaving right after a good sleep.If you are not tired you drive safer and the conversations are much better.If you start the drive later on in the day when you wasted alot of energy the trip becomes difficult requiring many naps in the truck along the sides of the road.This is more of an expidition than a hunting trip and certainly not a vacation,you may need a vacation when you return.

just got the draw results back no fucking winner.that's the last time iam participating.tired of losing my money.

I did not draw either.

I did draw for Moose in two different wildlife reserves; though I may hunt for moose elsewhere this year.

You may want to try drawing for moose or deer instead.

Was drawn in Port-Daniel for deer.I guess not that many participated,they only take 4 groups of 4 in total.Don't know anything about this place,aside from what zone it's in and where it is.It is the first time I was drawn.I think I might have a chance at a buck here.I don't know how many years this place has been open for deer.I'll have to wait for the call and ask for last years results to get an idea.

Are these winter caribou hunts worth the $$? They seem a lot cheaper than the average fall hunt, worth the trouble? How does the hunting compare to a regular fall hunt?

MG

If spending 7000+ for a hunting trip bothers you then you will get the same trip and a whole lot of good meat to bring back home for around 2K.The only catch is the drive.It is too long.You will get the highest chance of succes for bagging caribou on a winter trip.Trophy quality is much better on fall hunts.

shootaway, sounds like you're complaining a lot.

Don't forget that as a resident, all you have to do is rent a plane and fly into zone 24 during the fall and hunt for free. I've done it and it is the full equivalent of a $7000-$10000 trophy hunt for the price of a bush plane. Just don't forget that you'd be camping all alone with bears and wolves all around you

CanadianLefty,what did it cost you?Whose services did you use? Where did you fly in to?

On second thought,you can't have a trophy hunt without the use of a helicopter.This service was and I think is still offered by mirage.Lately they do not specify the number of flight hours you are entitled to.I hunted with a chopper once during the winter caribou hunt.The outfitter I hunt with offered to let me go on the chopper that was retrieving the caribou that were shot by hunters at Mirage.I hunted alone with a guide and the pilot the only problem was that the guy in charge from mirage told the pilot not to wonder and look for a big herd or trophy bulls,but to land as soon as a small group was spotted.That was some experience.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
On second thought,you can't have a trophy hunt without the use of a helicopter.This service was and I think is still offered by mirage....I hunted with a chopper once during the winter caribou hunt.The outfitter I hunt with offered to let me go on the chopper that was retrieving the caribou that were shot by hunters at Mirage.I hunted alone with a guide and the pilot the only problem was that the guy in charge from mirage told the pilot not to wonder and look for a big herd or trophy bulls,but to land as soon as a small group was spotted.That was some experience.

You're so wrong! Besides being borderline illegal and against B&C fair chase ethics, that has to be the farthest thing from a true trophy hunt imaginable. Yes, Mirage offers crap like that, but that doens't make them the benchmark standard for trophy hunting- in fact, it places them at the bottom of the barrel.

JMHO.

If anyone else wants to chime in about trophy hunting and helicopters, I've got my flame-thrower ready

I'm guessing not many are suprised by what this dude does.

The way I see it a trophy hunt is a hunt in which an outfitter uses extra services to put the hunter in the vicinity of trophy game,or excluding access to such areas through price or rates.If we're talking caribou an airplane or helicopter are such services.The helicopter being more suited because it can land most anyplace.I believe herds are protected by rules regarding helicopters.I think there are certain distances that must be respected regarding a main herd especially during winter.Also,shooting from a vehicule etc... So what's with the flame thrower?

My God you guys shoot first and ask questions later,I better duck! Hope you are not in law enforcement.

When hunting 'fair chase', you cannot spot Caribou from the air, land in the vicinity and start shooting. That is what Mirage does on many occassions each year. They charge up to $20,000 per hunter for that during their 'trophy hunts' season.

What an outfitter can provide is a base camp, land in an area know to have migrating Caribou running through it without 'spotting' trophies/bulls from the air, food and guide services...

I was around to see the helicopter hunts offered by Mirage this November. What they were doing was flying hunters in and putting them down in front of the herd, then picking them up two hours later. Another copter airlifted the carcasses out to the nearest road. The hunters had to make the 2 hour drive back up to the carcass drop point to retrieve the animals. This was a result of the herd not making it down to the northernmost road by the third hunt. They charged $1,500 per hunter for the service, 4 hunter minimum for the copter to fly. There was no shortage of takers. I do not agree with this, but saw nothing that would have violated B&C rules. We took our animals by waiting until the herd got within 10 miles of the road, then we rented sleds and went hunting. An awful lot of hunters went home empty handed this November. BD

The type of hunt you are describing is an ordinary fall hunt.Many outfitters also fly hunters to different areas if caribou are not in the area.I think that you'll agree that all fall hunts are done that way.What then is a trophy caribou hunt like the one you say costs 7-10K? What makes it 2 or 3 times the cost of an ordinary hunt if it does not involve a helicopter?If "fair chase"is a term used by B&C to mean something in their rule book,then fine.However the term "trophy hunt" is not a term that is defined or owned by the B&C.

shootaway, no I do not agree with you that what BD describes is an ordinary fall hunt. $7-10k hunts typically are fully guided, American Plan hunts, with the option to move you to a different base camp if the Caribou do not migrate through your area. As I said, an outfitter can provide a base camp, land in an area known to have migrating Caribou running through it without 'spotting' trophies/bulls from the air, food and guide services...Subtle, yet BIG difference- read my comments below:

BD, you should also read my comments below:

quote:

I was around to see the helicopter hunts offered by Mirage this November. What they were doing was flying hunters in and putting them down in front of the herd, then picking them up two hours later. ...There was no shortage of takers. I do not agree with this, but saw nothing that would have violated B&C rules

Here is the Fair Chase Statement:

quote:

FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.

Landing a helicopter in front of the herd, typically heading them off at the pass, getting out, shooting them, often within a matter of minutes is an improper advantage IMHO and not how I interpret Fair Chase. The mere fact that they pick the hunters back up in two hours (often less, often they just wait) is indicative of the improper advantage. Furthermore, Mirage also offers the 'trophy hunts' by helicopter that spot trophy bulls from the air and lands the hunter as close to the bulls as possible for a shot opportunity.

All of this just sickens me. If 'shooting' for 'meat', it would be slightly more palatable, but do not ever call this hunting and certainly not Fair Chase for trophy bull Caribou. I've seen planes and helicopters literally circle herds for minutes trying to spot large bulls before deciding to set down or not. The so-called 'hunter' that then claims that they shot a large bull in Fair Chase is in desparate need of ethics, among a few other things.

I am replying to you Canadian Lefty as I posted before BD's post was up.I ask you again,what is a trophy caribou hunt in your oppinion?You find sticking a carrott out your bedroom window having the family buck approach pull out the rifle and shoot more ethical?That is what hunting everywhere is today aside frome caribou hunting and along with few others.I believe hunting caribou with helicopter is more ethical than most hunts.I am sure there are rules the chopper must go by.There are probably areas that are exclusive to certain outfitters that choppers cannot land on.It is not what you are making it out to be.There might be someone here with more knowledge about rules regarding helicopters and hunting caribou to give a better picture of what is going on.

I just checked on what is the cost of an ordinary fly in fall hunt.Explo-Sylva charges 4400CDN all inclusive(taxes,food, guide)Price also includes airfare from Montreal! So, an ordinary hunt does not cost 10K.This outfitter has been around for a few years,nice color brochure,alot of good references etc...

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I am replying to you Canadian Lefty as I posted before BD's post was up.I ask you again,what is a trophy caribou hunt in your oppinion?You find sticking a carrott out your bedroom window having the family buck approach pull out the rifle and shoot more ethical?That is what hunting everywhere is today aside frome caribou hunting and along with few others.I believe hunting caribou with helicopter is more ethical than most hunts.I am sure there are rules the chopper must go by.There are probably areas that are exclusive to certain outfitters that choppers cannot land on.It is not what you are making it out to be.There might be someone here with more knowledge about rules regarding helicopters and hunting caribou to give a better picture of what is going on.

Stop digging yourself a deeper hole

For me a trophy hunt begins with a Fair Chase hunt. The definition of what defines a trophy in the eyes of a hunter then becomes very subjective.

I disagree with you on many of your points and will not try to address them all. I will say that carrot 'hunting' out of your bedroom window and using helicopters to move in on game and calling it hunting is not ethical. If as you say, "that is what hunting everywhere is today", then you have started off on the wrong foot.

I never defined a $7-10k hunt as an ordinary hunt. I did say that "...$7-10k hunts typically are fully guided, American Plan hunts, with the option to move you to a different base camp if the Caribou do not migrate through your area." As an example, Cabelas offers these hunts for $7000 USD (plus non-residents would still have the added costs of flying to MTL., paying license fees etc)- Mirage is at least $9000 Canadian-as I had a client that used their 'Trophy Hunt' service last year. Besides, you were the first person to quote the $7k--"If spending 7000+ for a hunting trip bothers you then...".

'Ordinary' hunts can cost much less. A resident hunter can have a true trophy hunt for under $2,000, including airfare- but as I mentioned, you'd be in a tent in the middle of the wilderness.

End of discussion.

The hole is dug and you're in the bottom.

Dude you're an idiot, and your lack of actual experience speaks volumes.

Chuck

The "typical" late November hunt in the La Grande hydro area consists of driving up there and paying $1,500 to $1,700 for 3 to 4 nights lodging. For 9 out of the last 10 years the Caribou herd was down as far as the road somewhere along the 800 miles of east-west route across the middle of Quebec. The hunters then drive to where the Caribou are, (In your appropriate zone), and go hunting. This past year was unusual in that warm weather and lots of open water prevented the herd from getting as far south as the road until the end of the month. Mirage addressed this by offering Helicopter rides to the herd, (for a price).
I do not agree with this method of hunting. However, I am not going to denigrate other hunters who chose to exercise that option. And, while it could certainly open the door to possible abuses, I do not feel that it necessarily violates the spirit of the B&C rules. That would depend on the conduct of the individual hunter. As in virtually all cases it is the actions of the individual hunter while beyond the eyes of others which determine the true ethics of the hunt.
BD

Well said BD.Especially about the part of denigrating other hunters.I doubt I trust the ethics of hunters that do denigrate others.That very act is un ethical.Real phonies like Chuck Nelson.

Dude I'll put my experience at 29 up against yours any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Start posting photos. I'm all eyes!

Chuck

BD, warm weather or any other excuse is no reason to bend the laws or reduce your standard of ethics. I am making a distinction between hunting/'trophy hunting' and shooting. Let's call a spade a spade. In the spirit of Fair Chase, in the contexts that I have described, it does violate B&C rules. The conduct of the individual hunter matters, but in the examples that I described, animals hunted would be ineligible for entry into the record books.

shootaway, it is not very becoming to get all defensive.

Open your mind to the slight possibility that there are some REAL hunters like Chuck that frequent these forums and that some REAL phonies might learn a thing or two if they'd just be more receptive to hearing the truth.

You have already admitted to have never been on a guided Caribou hunt, yet you call yourself an expert 'Caribou killer'. How many unguided Caribou hunts have you actually been on? How many Caribou have you actually killed?

In all, you've made yourself out to be a fool. Even some fools learn from their mistakes. Why not go back and reread some of your threads once in a while?

What would me in a bunch of pictures with caribou prove? I have put up a couple in the old forum,and I plan on putting more up as soon as I buy a photo scanner.I'll show you all my rifles.It has not been that many years that I seriously hunted big game.Probably 12 or so.Mostly because I could not afford to do so.I have hunted small game in the townships ever since I was 15.That was when my father bought me my first shotgun,a double barrel 12 guage superpose.I have hunted with my grandfather and his dogs as well.My grandfather was a reloader,landowner,who hunted extensively.One thing that I poccess that is above experience is a keen sense of what is happening,a feel for whatever I am doing,such that I can grasp in one year what took 29 for others to grasp.Genius would be a word to describe me.Hell I am a living genius!

CanadianLefty,I have been on 11 caribou hunts.I have shot around 30 caribou.I have shot a few deer too.I've been on a couple of moose hunts but got nothing.If you don't believe just ask Mr Pash at Nouchimi outfitters.Ask about George.

BD,there were no caribou down during the first two weeks of 2000.Same scene that you described occured.The following year had the greatest concentration of caribou descend and the least number of hunters(terrorist attacks).It was mind blowing in 2001.There were times when it was frightening to be standing on the road,fearing being trampled over by a sea of caribou.That was the year I got a nice rack.

Exactly what I expected. Um oh well.........Excuse me if I don't consider what you describe hunting.

Hey Chuck,not every day I talk to someone from a nice as a hunting spot as Alberta.How about you sinking us in envy with some photos? Whitetail and elk,muledeer,cougar.or did you just start hunting yesterday?That goes for you too CanadianLefty!

I'll be sending my check to reserve for the second week of the season soon.Talked to my father and partner and he said he would prefer the second week.Although road conditions are better the first week and caribou have not been hunted yet we will not take the chance of them not being there.I hope to hunt again with my father as doing so has been one of lifes biggest pleasures.