I spoke with a chap from California that had booked a Stone Sheep Hunt and a couple months before the hunt his wife became terminally ill.
He asked that the deposit be rolled over for a future hunt. His request was denied and the outfitter kept his $12,000 deposit. What is your opinion on this? I think it is really a dirty way to treat a client. Is this customary?

Hawkeye47

Don't know all the details, so it is tough to comment. Recently I've seen a few 'last minute' opportunities for stone sheep pass my desk. I think all of them got sold. One hunter actually cancelled FIVE DAYS before his anticipated arrival.

Many outfitters have stipulation in their T&C's that a refund is possible up to a certain point in time, after which the deposit becomes non-refundable. Don't know what the deal was with this outfitter and client. Obviously an outfitter can not refund deposits until the day the hunt is supposed to start. He has to run a business, needs to cover expenses, commits to hiring staff, hauling in supplies, etc. etc.

Using the deposit for a hunt in a future year... sounds fair, if it can be expected that the empty spot can be filled. Again, we don't know the details of this particular deal.

I feel for the hunter's predicament, and it may sound harsh, but isn't this the kind of situation for which you take out a cancelation insurance?

Frans

Pretty standard for a 50% deposit to become "non-refundable" within 90 days of the hunt. You know this before you send them the cheque too, so if it happens that you have to cancel a hunt within 90 days you should expect that your deposit is in jeopardy. I agree with Frans that this is the exact situation for which trip cancellation insurance was designed.

Most outfitters/agents seem to be willing to work with their clients to avoid complete loss of a deposit. But it totally depends on the circumstances, particularly whether that hunt can be re-sold on short notice, and if so, at what amount of discount. I've seen a few adverts for last minute stone sheep hunts at a 50% discount....the outfitter can really only afford to do that if someone has forfieted a deposit!!

Sucks, but thats the nature of the beast. A $25,000 sheep hunt is a HUGE portion of almost any outfitters business for a year, and they can't just make it up next year (quotas don't get rolled forward, and as Frans said commitments from the current year still have to be honored).

Cheers,
Canuck

with a couple of months notice that the hunt needed to be cancelled the outfitter surely could have filled this slot very easily and probably with no discount. We all know how hard it is to book a Stone Sheep hunt "this year" so if he advertised it, even verbally through the grapevine he could have and probably did sell it. Not all outfitters are honest and reputable when there's easy money to be had. Go ahead, dig deep down into your gut and tell me with a straight face he had to beg someone to take this tag off of his hands. I was on a "list" of people waiting in line for a cancelled sheep hunt and even if I called as soon as the hunt hit the street it was already gone. Don't give the outfitter too much credit here. $12,000 was waaay too much to hold under the circumstances even if all of the details are not known. I know how the sheep hunting business works as I have been a member of FNAWS for years.

Woody

I don't convict until I have heard the evidence. In this case, it totally depends on who the outfitter is. If its one of the small guys with a marginal territory, he may have one helluva time selling on short notice without a major discount. The more well known guys often have a waiting list, and they typically have a bigger quota to boot (core sheep habitat), so they are better able to absorb a loss if one happens. Two opposite ends of the spectrum.

And as I said above, most of the last minute hunts I saw this year were from smaller outfitters and were significantly discounted.

I'm guessing that anybody who can afford a 12 grand deposit can afford to lose it. Mind you, it's sad, ifit was a 'hunt of a lifetime' situation, but like the others have said, the outfitter has likely already spent most of that setting up the hunt. Licences, food etc. Most of 'em clearly state cancellation times and penalties.

canuck;

raises an important point about who the outfitte was and the area the hunt was in.

so, who was the outfitter?

Use an agent and clear this type of stuff up ahead of time... or, by trip insurance for a mere pittance...