Bob Weber, THE CANADIAN PRESS

An American hunting outfitter is trying to use the North American Free Trade Agreement to fight what he considers misguided northern wildlife management.

A move by the Northwest Territories to revoke caribou tags for non-resident hunters is effectively the same as shutting down his business, says John Andre, who operates two hunting camps in the territory from his headquarters in Montana.

His allotment of caribou tags would go from 420 a year at its peak to zero under a proposal now before a northern regulatory board.

"They confiscated my business," he says. "My intent is to be compensated."

His notice of intent, recently filed with the federal deputy attorney general, seeks compensation of more than $8 million. But what Andre really wants is for Ottawa to review the territory's belief that caribou herds are shrinking.

Andre depends on an annual allotment of caribou tags to serve big-game hunters who come to his camps. But the yearly tags to non-aboriginal hunters have been gradually scaled back as the Northwest Territories tries to relieve pressure on its once-mighty herds.

Biologists say nine of Canada's 11 caribou herds are in decline. The Bathurst herd of the central barrens, they say, dropped from 120,000 animals in 2006 to 32,000 three years later. The Beverly herd to the east - 280,000 strong 15 years ago - has virtually disappeared.

Caribou herds have always fluctuated, but biologists suspect a combination of climate change, industrial development and hunting may be preventing them from bouncing back as they have in the past.

In December, the territorial government restricted hunting of the herds. Although local Dene and Metis can continue to harvest caribou, they now face quotas. Non-aboriginal hunting of some herds was virtually eliminated.

But Andre has long maintained that there are plenty of caribou. The herds have shifted their range further east and biologists are simply looking in the wrong place, he says.

Frustrated in his attempts to get territorial biologists to agree, he hopes his NAFTA filing will get the attention of federal wildlife officials.

"Maybe this will help force that. Somebody needs to take a look at what's going on up there."

Andre's lawyer, Cyndee Cherniak, confirmed the NAFTA process gives Ottawa the right to examine the underlying issue.

"This does allow a different body to come in and participate in this discussion," she said from Toronto.

Notice of intent is the first step in the NAFTA arbitration process. It tells the affected government that a dispute has arisen and authorizes it to look into the issue.

Still, while Andre may win a new hearing for his arguments, he's unlikely to get any money, said lawyer and NAFTA expert Todd Weiler.

"He doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to questioning government policies that benefit First Nations," said Weiler.

NAFTA does allow government to enact regulations that have a valid policy purpose and that don't single out any particular business.

"With respect to the expropriation allegation, I'm very skeptical," Weiler said.

Cherniak knows her client is in tough. The Canadian government has won 90 per cent of all complaints brought against it.

Andre said he's done with caribou outfitting and is just trying to recoup his investment - as well as make it possible for Canadian outfitters affected by the ban to receive compensation.

"I'm hoping it will pressure the N.W.T. to compensate the other outfitters who don't have the same protection against expropriation that I do.

"I may never go to the N.W.T. again."

...I may never go to the N.W.T. again..., well, this Yankee and all others like him should never have been allowed to enter the N.W.T. or any other Canadian hunting region in the first place!

The "Feds" should simply declare him "persona non grata" here in Canada and ban him or any member of his family or business associate entry to Canada.

This is great news and substantiates what I have been posting here for some time, foreign "hunting" in Canada is on the way out!

We should also withdraw from NAFTA and ban all exports of raw petroleum products, hydro power and water, forever.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:

We should also withdraw from NAFTA and ban all exports of raw petroleum products, hydro power and water, forever.

Oh great, just what Canadians really need...pricier consumer goods that don't come from or through the USA. OH...AND the loss of their largest market for anything they produce. What a great way to protect "your" Caribou from those people MOST willing to pay big money for them! What a great economic and conservation strategy all rolled into one! LOL!

WOW, a real intellect! Here we have the old bullshitt about how Canadian goods are ...pricier... and we need the USA and so we should just continue to allow the rape of, for example, the "Alberta Tar Sands" to provide cheap petro. products for Yankees and ignore what it is doing to our lands, waters and economy.

The people in the Territories need the Caribou and the pittance of money brought here by foreign, Yankee "hunters" does not and can never compensate for the loss of those animals.

The energy situation is among the worst aspects of NAFTA and we should NOT be selling our future resource base to the Yankees and just accepting the loss of it and the consequent pollution of so much of the Athabaska watersshed.

Here, in BC, the movement to preserve our hunting for ourselves is growing rapidly and some direct action will take place later this year.

We need INTERNATIONAL trade, not domination by the greedy and arrogant Yankees and this action by the NWT is a step in the right direction.

I hope that all who are reading this are aware that Dewey's views do not represent those of all, nor the majority, nor even a significant minority of Canadians. Seriously, as a Canadian, every time I see this nitwit's byline I prepare for embarrassment.

Dewey, you may be "one of us" as far as tenure on this forum is concerned, but as for being "one of us" in terms of your fellow Canadians....fat chance!

Spare me your spittle-drenched rebuttals...I won't bother to revisit this thread.

There is a major difference between the views of western Canadians and those who live in "central Canada", as this charming gentleman evidently does. We, here in BC and other western provinces do not really agree with Ontarians on very much and, since wildlife management and related issues, forestry for example, ARE provincial concerns here in Canada, our opinions will prevail.

As to my not being a Canadian, well, I hardly need bother with such nonsense, given my birth and family antecedents. But, as in other nations, we have a few cultural "Quislings" and cowards who will sell out Canada for their own gain....funny, how many of these live in Ontario.

Dewey,

I hope this does not offend you too much, but Canada will file bankruptcy about thirty days after we close the borders with you. NAFTA was done to insure your economic survival.

Rich

To cease all trade between the USA and Canada WOULD be an enormous blow to BOTH nations, no question about that. However, CHINA is frantic for much of what we have as is India and our enormous petroleum reserves would give us a major advantage in manufacturing and transport as well as ready cash by selling some to both the above nations and, perhaps, Japan.

The US would be BADLY damaged in economic terms by the sudden loss of cheap, secure Canadian oil and hydropower and Mexico, Venezuela and other such suppliers cannot and would not make up the shortfall. You are already hugely in debt to China and THEY are NOT as forgiving as we have been, as in the power debts Kalifornia owed BC Hydro that we forgave.

NAFTA was instituted by the wealthy for the wealthy and it hurts every decent person in both countries and should be cancelled.

No offence taken, I have SEEN northern Alberta and the huge devastation there due to "mining" cheap oil for the USA.

Hah!

Is that you trying to buy American-made Talley rings for a CZ rifle in the classifieds?
Buy Canadian.

Rich


BTW, where is that "cheap" oil?

The "cheap oil" I referred to is the oil from the "Alberta Tar Sands" which, under the terms of NAFTA, Canada must sell to the USA at the same price or no higher, than we sell it domestically. This means, that the economic benefit to Canada, of having this resource which COULD be used to fuel our industries to better compete against all others, American included, is negated by the NAFTA.

However, the REAL objective of the Yankees in NAFTA was not petro. resources or even hydropower, it was and is the control of Canadian WATER and THAT is where the major objection to this vile treaty lies and it will be what eventually causes Canadian withdrawal from it.

I do not expect this to be "easy" and we Canadians have a long and difficult road ahead to get free of the excessive inter-dependency with the USA, that has arisen since WWII, however, it can and must be done....and, I think that it will be done, time alone will tell.

As to the original point of this thread, the Caribou in Canada's northern regions, they are a major source of sustenance for the people who live there and their numbers are declining. The appropriate response to this is to ban all foreign hunting and restrict resident hunting and eliminate foreign GOs at the same time.

Conservation and then Canada's national interest are far more important than the desires of Yankee "hunters", end of story.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Hah!

Is that you trying to buy American-made Talley rings for a CZ rifle in the classifieds?
Buy Canadian.

Rich


BTW, where is that "cheap" oil?

Good find Rich!

Dewey, while all us "yanks" can sympathize while your patriotic point of view, it amazes me who you think is to blame. Are you so blinded by that maple leaf flag that you can't see your fellow dumb-fuck-cunucks raping the country beneath your feet? Who should you really be upset with? And when you say stupid, honestly stupid shit like

To cease all trade between the USA and Canada WOULD be an enormous blow to BOTH nations, no question about that. However, CHINA is frantic for much of what we have as is India and our enormous petroleum reserves would give us a major advantage in manufacturing and transport as well as ready cash by selling some to both the above nations and, perhaps, Japan.

you really show your character. You couldn't care less about the mines or the game trophies, your only intention is to talk shit about Americans, which would be OK in itself, but at least be a man about it, don't hide behind your countries natural resources to do so!

You appear to have difficulty reading as I very clearly commented on the vermin here in Canada, who will sell our country out in a post I made yesterday.

I have been involved in conservation both as a volunteer and in my employment since the early 1960s, so, you are not only wrong in your supposition, but, typically American in your arrogant assumption that everything is about you.

I want to ban ALL foreign hunting-fishing and non-guided uses of Canadian wilderness, not ONLY American and have often said so here. I do not waste my time with any non-specific comments on Americans and never have or will.

The FACT is that MOST foreign "hunters" here ARE Americans and they also infest the hunting industry, ergo, my references to them. However, if you all voluntarily stay home, well, that will solve the problem, eh.

The huge influence of Amerika in contemporary Canada can be seen everywhere in this country and lots of REAL Canadians, as with so many nations, simply do not want you here....what is SO difficult to understand about that?

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
You appear to have difficulty reading as I very clearly commented on the vermin here in Canada, who will sell our country out in a post I made yesterday.

Sorry Dewey, I haven't read all your posts, didn't know I was required to. No problem though, I'm sure it was an arrogant assumption that everything is about you.

quote:

The FACT is that MOST foreign "hunters" here ARE Americans and they also infest the hunting industry, ergo, my references to them. However, if you all voluntarily stay home, well, that will solve the problem, eh.

I suppose many if not all "yanks" would find other things to pursue if your fellow patriots would stop advertising to the USA. Why is it that your country's hunger for the greenback be something we should feel guilty about? No need to answer.

quote:

The huge influence of Amerika in contemporary Canada can be seen everywhere in this country and lots of REAL Canadians, as with so many nations, simply do not want you here....what is SO difficult to understand about that?

Nothing. In fact I see things clearly now. The point I made in my last post- You've proven it to perfection. Thank you. It's usually much harder than this...

Tell me, "Hokkaido", just what kind of "American" would use a Jap "handle", eh? It seems to me that you ...doth protest... just a little too loudly........

You stoop so low Dewey. I happen to live-work in Japan and after getting into the hunting here I think it will be a while before I move back home.

The influence of America here is somewhat minimal compared to Canada anyway. Even still, I don't hear Japanese people bitching about America, they know it's their own fault and limit it. You could learn many things Danielsan.

But anyway Dewey, just to be clear, I am totally against this nafta deal and I pray for the day when us "yanks" tell you to shove that sandy oil up ur ass. I know, I know, not likely to happen in my lifetime, but I'm still hoping.

What these guys are trying to do seems like BS to me, but some people will do anything to make a buck. It wasn't long ago that unAmerican outfitters did basically the same thing domestically. And if the game numbers have dwindled like you say then non-resident hunting should be greatly reduced, I would be the first to say I won't be back.

I really want to like you, to think that you are a patriot and a steward of the land. That you fight the good fight and are a conservationist. But I get the feeling that in fact you are just a disgruntled imp, upset that not all your countrymen don't live like Norman Winther, that people have the audacity to eat cheeseburgers and wear levis.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
...I may never go to the N.W.T. again..., well, this Yankee and all others like him should never have been allowed to enter the N.W.T. or any other Canadian hunting region in the first place!

The "Feds" should simply declare him "persona non grata" here in Canada and ban him or any member of his family or business associate entry to Canada.

This is great news and substantiates what I have been posting here for some time, foreign "hunting" in Canada is on the way out!

We should also withdraw from NAFTA and ban all exports of raw petroleum products, hydro power and water, forever.

yep, you idiot, and so is hunting for white Canadians. hope you can prove you are part Indian. that's a lie. i hope you can't.

Is it actually possible, in the richest nation on Earth, with what is continually boasted about as the "best" medical care in the world, that anyone who is as lacking in basic literacy as you are can be a doctor?

No wonder many Americans, including the current POTUS, are in favour of "Medicare", if YOU are an example of the "doctors" that they have to suffer under....you loudmouthed, ignorant quack!

quote:

Originally posted by Hokkaido: if the game numbers have dwindled like you say then non-resident hunting should be greatly reduced,

I could respond to your rant in a number of ways, but, cannot be bothered. However, the above statement you made really says it all about American attitudes toward Canadian resources.

Two points, the first is who in hell are YOU to dare to tell us WHAT hunting should or should not be reduced...it is NOT your affair to interfere in our internal decisions and THAT is EXACTLY WHY so many Canadians do not want Americans hunting here.

The second point is simply that NO non-resident hunting OR influence-investment in GO operations here is acceptable, none, zero, nada...

Oh, as to my previous comment which you dislike, well, those who post ...cumb fuck cunucks... can expect that and far more.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Hokkaido: if the game numbers have dwindled like you say then non-resident hunting should be greatly reduced,

Douchebag Dewey,

I was just trying to agree with you there, but since I'm a "yank" you can't get it. Just go on hating us, it seems to have worked well for you so far.

Hey, HokeyPokey, I do not ...hate... Americans or Japanese, I simply despise ignorant lowlifes like you with your simple-minded rhetoric.

With a name like "dewey", it may be best not to throw stones.

At least I am man enough to use my own name and not hide behind a foreign name in a land where I do not belong, eh, you Yankee carpetbagger!

Hmm..In a land where I don't belong? Who would you be to make those assumptions? You contradict your own ideals and from what I have read by your fellow countrymen, many would rather not claim you as a Canadian. Are you not aware how much you embarrass them when you make spew your bigotry?

I know at least ten Canadians here, I suppose they do not belong? One fellow, by the way, is an Olympic hockey player. Others are hockey, skating coaches or run skate shops, or organize home-stays for Japanese kids who play hockey. I suppose you are much more a man than any of them.

You are an embarrassment to your country, not enough of a man to lick the sweat off the nutsacks of most real Canadians I know.

Seems like you have it in for anybody making money, a sure sign that you have none of your own. But honestly douchebag dewey , you don't do shit for me. I'm yawning here. I'm sure when you roll your ugly ass out bed in the morning and wipe the sleep out of your eyes you'll be on here telling us all what a great countryman you are, defending the homeland, how Canada couldn't do without you.

quote:

Dewey
one of us

Posted 29 March 2010 19:45


I have been involved in conservation both as a volunteer and in my employment since the early 1960s

Well apparently, Mr. do little, YOU REALLY SUCKED AT IT!

Whatever, with your knowledge of Canada/Canadians, you are doubtless as much of an expert on our country as you consider yourself to be on the "Children of Amateratsu".

The conservation battle here is on-going and is a lifetime committment to my country, something you could not begin to comprehend.

However, where the hunting-angling access aspect of it is concerned, we here in BC are slowly winning and the odious presence of your kind will soon be only a bad memory.

I imagine any american who wants to will hunt in Bc with or without you. The majority are welcome.

I would suggest that you contact Mr. Tom Ethier, the current Director of the BC Fish and Wildlife Service and ask him what the results of recent research conducted here in BC concerning foreign trophy hunters were.

I will save you the trouble, OVER 90% of BC citizens are now strongly opposed to this and regular articles requesting a ban on it are published in our print media, all over the province.

Soooooo, Cornhusker, I think that you might just be wrong on this and the ...welcome... that you think you will get may be a blockade to tell you to leave BC and not return.

Call the MOE if you doubt my word.

Dewey you still don't get it. Trying to run out the non resident hunters will drive a rift between us residents and the rest of the hunting world. When the bunny huggers step it up a notch here in BC we will need all the allies we can get, or the next generation will not have the same opportunities we had growing up. If you think the 80 000 hunters in BC have much of a political voice think again.

quote:

Originally posted by chilcotin hillbilly:
Dewey you still don't get it. Trying to run out the non resident hunters will drive a rift between us residents and the rest of the hunting world. When the bunny huggers step it up a notch here in BC we will need all the allies we can get, or the next generation will not have the same opportunities we had growing up. If you think the 80 000 hunters in BC have much of a political voice think again.

Yep we'd get wooped just in Surrey. It's high time hunters of the world get serious about a united front.

I did a poll here a few months ago,and about 90% of canadians thought dewey was an embarrassment.

He also forgets that his hunting rights and access have been trampled by the FN issue,and when there is no foreign money there to fight for non FN hunting rights,his pioneer ancestry isnt going to count for shit.

Shutting down foreign hunting will be followed closely by non native resident hunting shutting down.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
We should also withdraw from NAFTA and ban all exports of raw petroleum products, hydro power and water, forever.

You left out wood products. Was that an oversight?

You guys don't have enough to do.

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:

quote:

Originally posted by chilcotin hillbilly:
Dewey you still don't get it. Trying to run out the non resident hunters will drive a rift between us residents and the rest of the hunting world. When the bunny huggers step it up a notch here in BC we will need all the allies we can get, or the next generation will not have the same opportunities we had growing up. If you think the 80 000 hunters in BC have much of a political voice think again.

Yep we'd get wooped just in Surrey. It's high time hunters of the world get serious about a united front.

This so-called ...united front... of these wonderful sportsmen from the USA will accomplish exactly what?

They have no political power here in BC, cannot vote and the organization which represents those who guide them here, your GOABC has sure cooperated with the BGWF and resident hunters in recent years, eh?

The slurs, threats and lies directed at me here because I DARE to think that native-born BCers like me should keep our wildlife for our own uses should demonstrate just how much "support" we resident hunters could expect from these Yankees, NONE, unless we kowtow to them and allow them to use OUR resources as they see fit until they have raped BC aS THEY did their own country.

I am not surprised that you want this so-called ...united front... as you are an outfit owned by an American, same old story and time Westbrook, Bryan Martin and all other Yankee "owners" were sent back to the USA.

Yankee go home.

quote:

Originally posted by Daryl S.:
You guys don't have enough to do.

I wish, it has been pissing rain so I cannot dig the side garden or take my rifles to the range, a 3 hour roundtrip drive. I get started on my outdoor work on a sunny morning and whamo, down it comes and the place is a friggin' swamp.

I have two+ cords of 30"-diameter Doug. Fir blocks, 18" deep, that I salvaged from a neighbours tree he had taken down; I piled these to shoulder height in my side yard to split for the fireplace and cannot get that done. They weigh from 150-200 lbs. each and it makes a good workout for a retired geezer like me and keeps my memories of working in the bush alive.

Fuggin' rain, I can't wait to move back to the Kootenays and we are thinking about the Yukon as everywhere south of Hiway 16 is now so crowded.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
We should also withdraw from NAFTA and ban all exports of raw petroleum products, hydro power and water, forever.

You left out wood products. Was that an oversight?

No, not really, our forest industry was severely impacted when the Americans chose to break their word on a treaty they signed with us, whom they call "friends" and "allies" and it will never again be what it was in my youth.

So, the patriotic thing to do is to develop new international markets for all of our products, adopt the old, tried and true "MacDonald Tory" approach to the US and keep our recreational "goodies" for ourselves and those who honour the treaties they make with us.

It's very simple, really.

I think people have a problem here with your mouth,not your countries wildlife policies.

quote:

Originally posted by jb:
I think people have a problem here with your mouth,not your countries wildlife policies.

Think you sunk that nail right to the head with that post jb....

I'd certainly be curious to see some of the "polls" that Dewey talks about....I don't think that as a lower-mainlander Dewey is all that connected to the environment as he would like everyone to believe.

Ah, "BM", I was wondering when you would appear here. Call Tom Ethier and ASK him, OR, go to the HBC forum and ask FD, GG, or any of the BCWF members there.

I am NOT a "lower mainlander" although my current home base is in Vancouver. I regularly travel throughout BC and have for 45+ years.

I think that YOU should post what YOUR actual BC experience is and where YOU live and were born, since you seem to find my origins and life so questionable.

So, you live in Erickson, eh, been there long? Seems like I might know you from somewhere and I can't quite place you/it.....I will, though.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
...I may never go to the N.W.T. again..., well, this Yankee and all others like him should never have been allowed to enter the N.W.T. or any other Canadian hunting region in the first place!

The "Feds" should simply declare him "persona non grata" here in Canada and ban him or any member of his family or business associate entry to Canada.

This is great news and substantiates what I have been posting here for some time, foreign "hunting" in Canada is on the way out!

We should also withdraw from NAFTA and ban all exports of raw petroleum products, hydro power and water, forever.

Wow, your post came 16 minutes after the original post. Couldn't wait to jump on that one,eh?

Time to get a new hobby. I suspect your 45+ years of BC wilderness experience begins and ends with the cactus on your computer desk, situated on the 20th floor of a downtown Vancouver apartment complex.

Do you have a plan for all this extra oil,power and water we don't need? After all, being a self-proclaimed intellectual, you do know that electricity can't be stored.

The petroleum resources stay where they have been for eons and thus the total devastation of the Athabaska River watershed in Alberta will be stopped, for one example. The resource will be there WHEN WE need it in the future and our rate of use will allow for appropriate mitigation of environmental issues.

The hydropower we DO need, NOW, to gain a competitive edge in the international marketplace for Canadian manufactured goods. This, in turn, will sustain the relatively high wages paid to Canadian workers.

The electricity CAN be stored and has been in various forms, however, I am sure that you know ALL about that, eh? I am opposed to any further hydro-development here as I have seen the effects of the accursed "Columbia River Treaty" and the "Portage Mountain Dam", brought to we BCers by Prairie types....like you.

No, my house is near Central Park on the Van.-Burnaby border. You are welcome to come and visit me and then tell me that I am some sort of phoney.....anytime.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:

quote:

Originally posted by chilcotin hillbilly:
Dewey you still don't get it. Trying to run out the non resident hunters will drive a rift between us residents and the rest of the hunting world. When the bunny huggers step it up a notch here in BC we will need all the allies we can get, or the next generation will not have the same opportunities we had growing up. If you think the 80 000 hunters in BC have much of a political voice think again.

Yep we'd get wooped just in Surrey. It's high time hunters of the world get serious about a united front.

This so-called ...united front... of these wonderful sportsmen from the USA will accomplish exactly what?

They have no political power here in BC, cannot vote and the organization which represents those who guide them here, your GOABC has sure cooperated with the BGWF and resident hunters in recent years, eh?

The slurs, threats and lies directed at me here because I DARE to think that native-born BCers like me should keep our wildlife for our own uses should demonstrate just how much "support" we resident hunters could expect from these Yankees, NONE, unless we kowtow to them and allow them to use OUR resources as they see fit until they have raped BC aS THEY did their own country.

I am not surprised that you want this so-called ...united front... as you are an outfit owned by an American, same old story and time Westbrook, Bryan Martin and all other Yankee "owners" were sent back to the USA.

Yankee go home.

Do you know something I don't know. As far as I know the outfitters I work for are all Canadian. I truely belive that Canadian ownership should be a priority but foriegn clients are what pay the bills.