I hunted an animal in Canada several times over the years and was finally successful in 2008. It was a big ticket hunt, very expensive, 12 days. I had concerns about the trophy, but was assured no worries. Long story short, the trophy was lost while in the care of the Consultant (Outiftter). After much discussion, some of which was not very pleasant, it was agreed that I should go back and hunt again to try to replace the trophy, but the expenses, air fare, license, hotels, tips (high four figures $)would not be covered and I would have to again fork out the money to cover those items. I offered to use the Consultant (Outiftter) for every North American hunt I booked from this date forward, if they would cover the expenses or if they would discount another hunt to help defray the expenses going forward with both ideas rejected, take it or leave it. As the animal was in their care I felt they should cover it all or at least work with me to find a compromise solution over time, but they rejected this. I am a very traveled hunter and will go back and hope for the best, but I do feel that they are not standing up and doing the right thing here. I am hunting the same area and will hopefully be suiccessful, but if not, this is all compounded. Anyone out there ever run into a situation like this? Any advice or opinions? I would like to hear from Hunteres and Outfitters. I have scheduled to go back, but I have let them know that I am not satisfied with this result.

I think it would be in poor taste on their part to ask for tips and Licence fees on a replacement hunt. But as for the airfare and hotel I would personaly not have a problem with this. They are after all taking the big hit on the hunt as an admission of responsibility for the items in their control/expense. You may want to look at it as the fact that they are in effect taking a double hit as they are diminishing there quota and working their guide with no compensation.

But opions are like a$$h&$#@s. Everyone has one

What kind of trophy was it?

That is true Canuck, they are taking a double hit, but so well am I. The Ari fare is $ 5,000 and the hotels are $ 600, the license $ 800. I don't mind chipping in some, but I have no liability in the loss. In fact, I paid each party extra to insure the care of the trophy, made special inquiries about alternatives to their plan for it and still had a problem. A bit like foreseeing a problem, telling them what it was and still suffering the loss. Also, at my age, another 12 days takes away from another hunt. But I do appreciate you giving me some things to think about, I admit,... I am terribly biased.
Thanks,
RustyF

Chief, I prefer not to disclose the trophy at this time. I probably will ona future post. Lets just say if I told what it was, it would be very easy to figure out who the Consultant was and I would like to think about this more before I post a negative review of their firm. It is an option that I am considering.
Thanks,
RustyF

There is NO requirement to TIP ANYONE and I would not even consider doing so, in circumstances such as these. ALL repeat ALL your expenses, except maybe airfare SHOULD be covered BY THEM and you should receive "golden" treatment on THIS hunt plus absolute delivery of your trophy.

There is a LOT of scummy behaviour by Guide-Outfitters, among the worst are foreigners involved in the northern BC Stone's Sheep hunting. But, morally bankrupt and corrupt governments allow this to continue..........

I know if I slipped up like that I'd bust my ass to get another trophy in my clients hands provided he can get him and his gear to a pickup point. Also, I would never tip a guide considering the soul-destroying prices they charge.

My advice...play hardball immediately.

Tell the outfitter, via your attorney, that you are instituting legal action to retrieve the value of the initial hunt (AND hotel and airfare and licenses). If they don't settle immediately, go public with all the details. DO NOT hunt with them again now or in the future. Then take that money from any settlment or legal victory and go to Africa for elephant or Rhino. Send trophy photos to the Canadian outfitter (and their publicly posted hunt references) with a nice letter talking about how they suck and describing what a great time you had...and how you plan to hunt with the African outfitter again and again until you collect the big 5. Definitely also provide them an excel spreadsheet description of the revenue loss to them over the next decade.

Had a similar hunt incident happen to me. After shooting the animal and loading it on the outfitters truck, we were on the road back to the lodge. When arriving at the lodge--night time--there was no animal on the truck. It had slid off due to excess speed and crazy driving. The outfitter offered to go to the local processing plant and get me another animal. i refused and cancelled future hunts along with telling anyone who questions about hunting with this outfitter to not go there.

Well since you're all mystical about the type of animal it was I'm going to assume it's a really expensive and hard to find trophy...um like a sheep.

I'd bust his ass anyway I could. Things like that don't get lost. They are stolen, lost or sold. If it's a sheep then it should have been inspected and chipped after being shot. If so then you have a pretty good reason to report this to the authorities. It will show up someday and people will wonder how your trophy got into someone elses hands. If it wasn't chipped then you need to ask your outfitter and the authorities why not?

But then maybe it was 'lil old white tail or an elk or whatever.

I think you should get your entire expenses back for this years hunt and nothing less. You did your part what the hell went wrong that he couldn't even get your trophy to you. I also think that if he's not going to work with you you should post his name for all to see.

the chef

I'd have to agree, trophy's don't just get lost, especially hard to get expensive ones. Either there is alot more to this story, or a theft of a trophy has occured. Has it been reported to the police. I am sure you have pictures to identify it, you never know where it may show up. Trophy's have been recovered, not a sure thing but why not try.
Good luck with getting your value back, next time make room in your luggage and take it home, or freeze it and ship it yourself before departing.

All,

I am not sure RustyF means "misplaced" when he says "lost". It is possible this trophy was not well prepared and allowed to spoil in spite of the continued urgings of the client while in the area.

tendrams

I would assume unless it was a bear, cougar, or wolf in the case of spoilage that this critter still has its antlers or horns. You never mentioned the reason or excuse for the missing trophy..

if you want us to feel sorry for you, you owe us the complete story, with all the details. Otherwise, you just come across as a whining kid.
Grizz

I'm guessing polar bear... and I'd be tempted to investigate legal action. Fortunately I have never had this happen... although once a stag trophy was damaged by the drunk Polish guides (back side burned during the boiling process over an open fire).

Frans

Grizz as usual you hit the nail on the head!!

quote:

Originally posted by RustyF:
I hunted an animal in Canada several times over the years and was finally successful in 2008. It was a big ticket hunt, very expensive, 12 days. I had concerns about the trophy, but was assured no worries. Long story short, the trophy was lost while in the care of the Consultant (Outiftter). After much discussion, some of which was not very pleasant, it was agreed that I should go back and hunt again to try to replace the trophy, but the expenses, air fare, license, hotels, tips (high four figures $)would not be covered and I would have to again fork out the money to cover those items. I offered to use the Consultant (Outiftter) for every North American hunt I booked from this date forward, if they would cover the expenses or if they would discount another hunt to help defray the expenses going forward with both ideas rejected, take it or leave it. As the animal was in their care I felt they should cover it all or at least work with me to find a compromise solution over time, but they rejected this. I am a very traveled hunter and will go back and hope for the best, but I do feel that they are not standing up and doing the right thing here. I am hunting the same area and will hopefully be suiccessful, but if not, this is all compounded. Anyone out there ever run into a situation like this? Any advice or opinions? I would like to hear from Hunteres and Outfitters. I have scheduled to go back, but I have let them know that I am not satisfied with this result.

You're sure it was the outfitter that "lost" the trophy, and not the guides who may have misplaced, aka.sold, the polar bear hide?

You don't owe them anything other than legal action, which shouldn't be too difficult if this consultant is arranging polar bear hunt, there aren't that many and they don't want their name slandered. I certainly wouldn't accept anything other than a free hunt,airfare and all.
Not sure why you offered to book every NA hunt through them after this fiasco. Seems there's a bit more to this story.

PS- You can't actually import a polar bear hide into the US as of lately(assuming you're American), even if they find it, at least that's my understanding. Perhaps that's part of the problem. US Fish&Wildlife may have it.

was it me and i had expressed my concern of the care and safety of the said trophy and it was lost,stolen,missplaced,slipped the hair,
while in the care of the outfitter, the conversation would go something like this;
you have 10 working days for a check to be delievered to my post office box for the balance of &@$#%.00 or on the 11th day you will be informed of where and what time to plead your case in front of the honorable mr. judge.
i tend to agree with the other posters that this trophy was stolen/sold and you will play hell getting any satisfaction from this outfitter till you get serious.
hes gonna jerk you around till then.
good luck and let us know how it turns out

Here's a little twist that might have happened.

In the mid 80's I took some time off of fishing at a northern sask. lake and went to the bar with my great uncle-he was older than dirt. We sat in the bar at Dorintosh (we called it douchebag) Sask, and he proceeded to tell about a huge bear that he and another uncle had shot. They left it with a local indian gal (he called her a "breed" as was the custom in his time) and she would tan it for them. The understanding was that they would pick it up the next spring.

Well spring rolled around and they went to the old gals house and asked about the bear...the gal said "oh it rotted before I could tan it." There wasn't much they could do so they left.

After the story my uncle turned to me and pointed to the very large bear on the wall of the bar and said "that bear wasn't there the fall we shot our own, but it sure was in the spring" I suspect your bear (if that's what it was) might have been stolen. Natives have a different idea about possession than we do Maybe a local needed some polar bear hide for mucklucks.

But then it might have been a lil old whitetail or sumthing, cause you still haven't given us the particulars.

the chef

If it's Polar Bear I would be screaming to high heaven as we are talking about a trophy that was importable when shot but isn't now. F*^CK THAT! I would be hiring a lawyer to sue the operator and agent without question.

My son shot a 7.5 foot cinnamon phase black bear a few years ago and sent it to the taxidermist by bus.Six months later we phoned to check on progress and were told that the bear had not been received.A call to Fish and Wildlife and the bear was found within a week.I would be very tempted to call and report a stolen trophy.

Grizz, the reason that I did not disclose the trophy was that I did not want to slander the Outfit until I got a few opinions from some unbiased persons prior to disclsoing who they are. If a $ 40,000 hunt doesn't help you narrow it down, then perhaps a clue that there are no antlers or horns and the cpae was allowed to spoil due to neglect, even thouigh I had warned against it and paid individuals on site for "extra care and concern". So in answer to your statement, you feeling sorry for me has no relevance at all to the post, as your sympathy has no relevance to me. Your comment about a whining kid shows your level of intuitiveness on such subjects, so no further comment is required, as it is not useful to the intelligent discussion save to get a smooch on the backside form Calgary Chef.
Now, does anyone here know of capable Counsel in the Province of Alberta that would have experience in such matters? Thank you for the serious replies that I received. I will report the full details once I have made a decision about action going forward.

Mentioning the species of animal, wouldn't involve any slander. There are lots of outfitters out there and since you didn't mention the outfitters name who would give a hoot, including the outfitter or the law?

cheers

Polar bear outfitters are pretty few and far between.

Hence my hesitancy in naming them until I have secured the valuable opinions that are thoughtfully offered here. I want to be fair, but want to be treated fairly and do not feel as if I am being done so. Admittedly I am extremely biased and have been offered a replacement hunt, but that does not include the roughly $ 10,000 in expenses that are associated with the hunt, that I have already paid once. It would not be as big of an issue to me, except I made a thorough effort to avoid this circumstance and admonitions to everyone involved prior to the loss. Now it is a matter of time, money and whether I think I might be successful in due process. Any Canadian Lawyers out there want to discuss this?

They are big boys too and connected, who knows, they may be reading this,.... You guys want to comment?,... Well perhaps not. I do think a Legal Opinion might be in order prior to my acceptance of such a punitive remedy. What say you fellow Hunters?

Oh and Spray and Pray, nothing more to the story. The hide rotted due to their neglect. The offer to book other Hunts with them was to provide incentive to do the right thing, if they were the sorts that were not inclined to do the right thing, well,... now,... I think we know the answer to that thus far don't we? Patience Grasshoppers, you will know who they are and what they decided before this thread is finished, that, I assure you, as will many other forums, hunt reports, SCI, NRA, etc,...etc,... etc,....

You could try contacting APOS(Alberta Professional outfitters Society). They can perhaps put you in touch with a lawyer versed in wildife cases.
If it's the actual outfitter/agent/consultant that neglected the animal, you may have a case. If it was the locals/guides, I'm afraid there's not much hope.

Yes, Spray and Pray and therein lies the legal question. If the my Contract was with and in the possession of the Consultant, they made all of the arrangements, they are my point of contact. It really comes down to what kind of people they are and if they do not stand up, then my decision is how do I handle it? I wouldn't want anyone else to book wth them and not know that if there is a problem, they are screwed. So do I have a responsiblity to my Fellow Hunters to be sure this information is known? The other thing that really cracks me up is my offer to use them on all hunts, they will come to understand what a crucial mistake that was not to accept that olive branch as it will be beyond what they can comprehend and a hundred times in profit lost against what it would have cost to do the right thing. I will be sure they receive a photo of each and every one.

Rusty how would you feel if they just supplied you another skin of the same size? I mean you already know what you accomplished and the trophy is just a reminder really. If it were me I'd be ok with that although I'd want a little something to sweeten the pot too-like having them pay for mounting.

quote:

Originally posted by RustyF:
Yes, Spray and Pray and therein lies the legal question. If the my Contract was with and in the possession of the Consultant, they made all of the arrangements, they are my point of contact. It really comes down to what kind of people they are and if they do not stand up, then my decision is how do I handle it? I wouldn't want anyone else to book wth them and not know that if there is a problem, they are screwed. So do I have a responsiblity to my Fellow Hunters to be sure this information is known? The other thing that really cracks me up is my offer to use them on all hunts, they will come to understand what a crucial mistake that was not to accept that olive branch as it will be beyond what they can comprehend and a hundred times in profit lost against what it would have cost to do the right thing. I will be sure they receive a photo of each and every one.

If the consultant had physical possession of the hide and messed up, you have a case.
I suspect your guides were locals, ie-Inuit. If they messed up, your legal recourse, in my opinion, will be difficult at best. I fear the consultant will try to blame them.

I truly can't believe they didn't acccept your offers. Unprofessional and quite frankly downright ignorant.

Did you book through an agent?

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:

There is a LOT of scummy behaviour by Guide-Outfitters, among the worst are foreigners involved in the northern BC Stone's Sheep hunting. But, morally bankrupt and corrupt governments allow this to continue..........

We know all about your hatred toward Americans, Dewey. Do you think you could give it a rest for at least one post???
I happen to personally know quite a few US born outfitters in Northern BC. They are extremely friendly and not crooks. They also live in BC.

The USFW listed the polar bear as threatened and stopped all US imports this spring.

"On May 15, 2008, the United States Secretary of the Interior and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service listed the polar bear as a threatened species throughout its range under the Endangered Species Act. Determination of Threatened Status for the Polar Bear (Ursus maritimus) Throughout its Range; Final Rule, 73 Fed. Reg. 28212-28303 (May 15, 2008) (“Final Rule”). As part of the Final Rule, the FWS determined that “authorization for the import of sport-hunted trophies would no longer be available under section 104(c)(5) of the [Marine Mammal Protection Act (“MMPA”)]." Before the Final Rule and this determination, the FWS authorized the import of sport-hunted polar bear trophies from approved populations in Canada under the MMPA." from SCI lawsuit

So it doesn't matter if you get another one as you will not be able to import it into the US. Sorry but your SOL.Your previous one would have had to be in the US before May 18 or it also would not have been importable either.

In order received,
Chief, I would be okay with another 10' skin, as that is what I shot, but no offer for that.

Spray and Pray, yes, well that is the additional issue, the agreement between the Natives and the consultant. I am no Lawyer, all I know is my skin rotted and I tried to get them to focus on prevention before I left. Yes, my offer will be born out through the years of me sending e-mails of me smiling with many other Trophies that they "could have" made money on, short sighted indeed.

Canuck 32, there are numerous Lawsuits in play tha the60 bears caught in limbo shot last year, but also the Trophies that will be collected going forward. I believe that eventually there will be importation into the US. However for argument sake, lets assume there will not be. The bear would be in the group shot in 2008, which I believe will make it in in settlement. Secondly, the fact that I may or may not import into the US has no bearing on the facts, impact or revlevance of this situation. I may want to send it to Mexico to my Friend's Ranch, to Bonneyville, Alberta to my friend's house there, or to Europe or Australia. I could send it to my beach front home in Thailand, if I had one, so the importation issue while it exists, in my mind has nothing to do with right or wrong. My e-mail file on Polar Bear legislation and litigation contains 5,000 entries, so I think I understand the quote you have posted better than you may realize. My bear was shot May 10 and my paperwork was on the Fed's desk at 1400 hours May 14. I was the test case until the complete negligence occurred.
Thanks

S&P, take note that my comments here and on other threads concerning Canadian resource issues are NOT based on "anti-Americanism" and are MY right to make subject to the rules of a given forum, get it?

That said, this is not my thread and I have no desire to interfere in this gentleman's requests for advice with his unfortunate situation. So, I will refrain from a much more detailed and forceful commentary on your foolish post and suggest you also not hijack his thread.

Personally, I feel more and more that trophies just tend to collect dust and to clutter your den. It's basically dead bones, isn't it?

I made a deal with my wife that she tolerates my hunting as long as I bring tasty meat and don't tranform our living room into a hunting museum. That's absolutely fine with me.

A also discovered that hunting females and fawns is nearly the same fun and much less expensive, for the same money or for free you can hunt much longer and shoot much more animals. With a trophy, it's one singlöe bang and it is over.

Some time ago on a driven hunt I shot a big red stag which still made it to the next stand, lungshot with a .375 H&H. This hunter was inexperienced, known to cause trouble and a paying guest. I wasn't, at least not the latter.

According to the rules, the "bones" would have been mine. I didn't even go into a discussion with that guy, also saving our generous host some trouble.

I very much enjoyed the experience and have the memories. Should I care about a trophy now hanging on another wall? I don't think so.

You can try legal action against the outfitter, but good luck. They will righfully blame the inuit guides who are shall we say judgement proof. You can't sue them as they own nothing, have no income and the odds of you successfully sueing a first nation band in Canada as a non-resident over something our courts would look at as a hobby are nil.

If I really wanted to shoot nanuck, I would go again on the cheap.