Anyone ever hunt free range bison in Alberta? I've got a friend/outfitter that's trying to talk me into a hunt for next January. I'm just wanting to get an idea of what I'll be getting myself into.

Not too many people do it....but I'd love to beone of those few. The bison that are outside of Wood Buffalo National park are the ones you are looking for. Take a look at a map of Alberta you'll see the park waaaay up in the north. In January it's damned cold and you'd have to go in on Snow mobiles. I understand there aren't very many bison outside of the park and success rates are pretty low. If yo can't stand the cold I'd suggest not doing it. 40 below celcius with a wind is bitterly cold and if you've never experienced it you'll be miserable and it can definately be a risk to your extremities and your life.

On the other hand it's a hunt that very few people have experienced.

the chef

Actually, since they aren't considered a Game animal, I don't think you need an outfitter to hunt them, though I think there is one area, where they are protected. One possible place is along the winter road between Ft Mac and Ft. Chipewyan. I spent a summer north and east of Ft. Vermillion and saw tracks and old bones, but no animals. The usual procedure is to cruise the bush on snow machines looking for fresh tracks and stalk on foot, though a friend of mine bagged one after a budy spotted them off the road and called him on the cell phone. These animals are Brucellosis carriers and it would be highly recommended to test the meat before consumption.
Grizz

I have only heard of one outfitter consistently and successfully running hunts for these bulls outside the park. His name is Eric Grinnell and I think he charges around $5000 for the trip. For what one would pay for gear and rental of snowmachines etc. to do this on your own..it's not a bad deal. In fact, given the increased success rates with an outfitter, doing it on your own might be false economy up in Alberta. Still, from what I have seen of trophy photos from various areas that have free roaming bison, I will continue to hunt the Yukon herd. Costs quite a bit more....but worth it when your looking at 2200 pounds of B&C bison on the ground.

JMHO,

John

The other place that the bison are is at Chinchaga in northern Alberta. For those who do not know Chinchaga is west and north of Manning Ab. This is the herd that travels between BC and AB so sometimes they are in BC where you cannot hunt them without a lic. but in AB you don't need a licence or guide, but you have to know where they are. I worked up there in 2005 winter and they were a real pain the a$$. One guy found out quickly how much damage a buff can do if you honk your horn to get them off the road. If I remember correctly he had one door that wasn't destroyed.

And then you forget the herd west of Yellowknife in the NWT, near Fort Providence. They're hunted in the winter, same fashion, with snowmobiles, but out of an established camp, and so far have been 100% to the best of my knowledge. In june, I always take a run down the 200 miles of road mainly just to see them and the newborn calves .........usually see a couple of hundred minimum. ~Arctic~

Canuck,

I assume this is the "Pink Mountain" herd of BC migrating into Alberta? I had no idea they did this! Thanks for the information!

Arctic,

Being that you are up there often, I am curious to know how would you describe the trophy quality in that herd? Are you hearing of any really big bulls coming out of there? I know they all look big but the trophy photos I have seen (specifically from the Big Game Adventures issue a couple months ago) didn't show the bulls to be that large in terms of body size. I know Jerome Knapp is the agent for whatever outfitters guide up there for Bison but am curious to know if it is possible to book direct?

Thanks,

John

Thanks guys we were looking at doing the hunt by Fort Mac, & the thought was got get a small plane to locate the herd, then go in on snowmobile. Still trying to get all the information, etc lined up.

You don't want to delay this trip and you might want to do some more checking before you put up any money. Last week the government announced a plan to eliminate TB from the Wood Buffalo Park herd. As I understand it, this plan involves the elimination of the current herd and restocking the area with disease free animals. I don't know when the program is set to start.

Bad news in the short term, but maybe the first step to getting a bigger, healthier herd and more hunting opportunities down the road.

Dean

quote:

Originally posted by maki:
You don't want to delay this trip and you might want to do some more checking before you put up any money. Last week the government announced a plan to eliminate TB from the Wood Buffalo Park herd. As I understand it, this plan involves the elimination of the current herd and restocking the area with disease free animals. I don't know when the program is set to start.

Bad news in the short term, but maybe the first step to getting a bigger, healthier herd and more hunting opportunities down the road.

Dean

Yes, I agree. In the Yukon we started at zero. We now have a huntable population. The gov't did an airial survey and we have reached are targeted number and then some. The bison have adapted well and have spread out. They are not totally sure how many we have. They are increasing in population by about 28% per year.

None the less, I like hunting the big buggers!

Daryl

I sure want to hunt them, but it looks like it will take a bit longer than I'd hoped.

Dean

Scouting with a plane and going in by truck and snowmobile seems to be the MO that is used by some on the FtMcMurray area. I know one bloke who has done it that way. BTW, he told me he'd never do it again!

I'm keen on doing it myself, just never got around to committing the time (and the money) to do it. We looked at the $$ a few years back, John the Greek, Loud-n-Boomer and myself, but between air time, skidoo rental, etc it quickly became a bit pricy. Too pricy for us at the time anyway.

The plan to cull the herd seems to pop up every decade or so. Is there any more news besides the newspaper article?

Frans

While I've done it with fewer, one bull is really a three man job. If each guy wants to take one, then you can count on being out there for a LONG while. The skinning and meat transport alone is a HUGE chore. From a cost perspective, unless one buddy has a plane, another has the ski-doos and the third has the wall tents and other gear, it really is just cheaper to hire the outfitter and go from there. I remember when Frans and I were looking at it, it came out to costing about $4000 per man...which is what Eric Grinnell was charging then anyway.

As for the herd cull...can I help? Seriously, it would be great if WBNP established a disease free herd of "pure" Wood Bison. Starting from zero is the only way that's ever gonna happen.

JMHO,

John

As far as I understand, the herd there now is the only genetically pure wood bison left. Any other bison is crossed with plains bison. I think the woods are much larger than the plains? This is why the idea comes up every decade or so, but then is dropped. To destroy the herd is to eliminate woods bison.

There is also the argument that the plains bison are almost universally not genitically pure either..having been crossed with cattle at some time or other. Lots of people will argue for and against this idea...it's been hotly debated by cattle farmers and bison farmers for years.

Frans how in the world did you come up with 4K per person? that seems awfully high..although figuring higher is better than lower.


the chef

Chef,

WBNP had their herd crossed with Plains imports from Montana forever ago. There is argument about the genetic differences between plains and wood buff anyway but I think it is accepted that the Yukon (Nisling River Watershed area) and NWT (MacKenzie Bison refuge) are the only huntable herds of pure wood bison. There are also other public disease free herds (not huntable) and some privately owned pure wood bison herds.

I also think $4000 included my flight up to Alberta.

Best,

John

Guys, it's been a few years....

Here's some numbers from memory:

Scout plane...$1500 per outing, and that is a "friends" price. Don't know if I still have access to that. There might be just one good bull in a group, so with 3 persons you may well need three flights at least.

Skidoo rental $150 per day, 7 days (or less if you are lucky)

Trailer rental (for the skidoos) $50 per day

These three items alone might run up to $3000 per person (assuming three scouting flights).

I really don't recall, I'd have to do the exercise over again. But it was based on the assumption that we started with nothing, no tents, no heaters, no stoves, no skidoos, no trailers, no food, etc etc. Just my truck, and I think Dave was planning on driving up, so we'd have two trucks. And mine doesn't have a hitch (more $$). Think extreme winter gear. At -40oC you'll need more than a fleece to survive, if you spend the day on a skidoo. More $$.

The alternative is that you go and camp out, assuming you know where to go.

You will need two tents at least, one to keep the skidoos warm. Remember that episode of Canada in the Rough... the guides needed 30 minutes of starter cord pulling and blowing hot air over the engines to get them going. Two heaters. Etc.... etc....

I'm more than willing to go over the whole exercise again, especially if I had a good lead on where to go, and a buddy with all the cool gear.

Frans

Rent a plane FOR SURE, $1500 seems a litle high to me, maybe not, but 1 flight should do it. Chances are you will see at least one herd and with more than one good bull. It probably won't be -40 more like -20 to -30C but definatley plan for the cold stuff (I guess even -20 would be extremely cold coming from florida )

This plan to de-populate the Wood Baffalo herd, because some of the Bison carry Brucellosis, has been on the books for years, but there is no real political will to carry it out and I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. There are just as many people against it as for it, so I don't see it happening in the foreseeable future. Just have the meat tested before you eat it.
Don't forget to buy a wolf tag
Grizz

Frans, John, or anyone know, ball park, how many miles into the general area that the bison tend to be from any given road or drop off point from the truck.
The reason I ask is when I plan these hunts, snowmobile fuel is my bigger concern. I have all the gear and it does not take that much to do a trip like this. I understand that you want to be well prepared and that is a good thing. I have done this a few times and I travel 'lighter' than most. Fuel takes up the most room and then you need a place to put your bison for the trip home. This is a little off topic but with all this talk of available bison, you got me thinking.


Daryl

I suspect it would take 3 trips or 3 machines to get the meat out from one animal...Am I out to lunch on this one? There would be no time to debone the meat in cold weather, it would be quarter it and get the mitts back on.

Coming out of fort Chip it's not that far to the park. I think they tend to come out of the park on the west side though...someone correct me if I'm wrong here too. That could make for a very long ride.

I got 2 buddies with planes one can carry 1/2 a buffalo and a couple guys back to ft. Chip. The other buddy is a crop duster and he's got access to some places that could be used for scouting...probably cost a lot less than $1500 especially if we take him hunting with us. So in either case I'd think a grand would easily cover spotting and probably more like $500.

The sled rental is expensive no matter how it's looked at. The nice thing with that is we could request the new models that have just come out. They would have little mileage on them and wouldn't be worn out, until after we use them They also have the heated handles etc. We could also get long track models-nice in heavy snow or with a heavy load.

I've got a cold weather tent with wood stove and it'll sleep 3 people nicely.

I could borrow some nice trappers sleds to pull behind the machines-I can get my hands on 3. Cost would be some bottles of rum.

I'd be very interested for late next winter.

quote:

Originally posted by calgarychef1:
I suspect it would take 3 trips or 3 machines to get the meat out from one animal...

That's right...three guys to get the meat, hide and head out in one trip and then a trip back in to get gear. That third guy makes a HUUUGGEEE difference as I said before. I did it with only two guys four years ago and it was a bit rough. We were hauling quarters up a steep and odd angled part of the trail one at a time....sitting on them! Really, even just the third set of hands to hold a leg while skinning or butchering is invaluable. Consider that four years ago it took two of us four days to shuttle meat from the kill site and gear from camp back to the vehicles. This last year it took three of us one day. Granted, during the first scenario we were quite a bit farther back in the bush but I have no doubt that a 50% increase in manpower makes things at least 100% easier in this case.

Daryl,

Why are you even thinking about this....have you even cleaned the bison blood from your insulated coveralls yet?

Best,

John

here's the answer for a tow-boggan behind a sled, 1 could carry a whole buffalo and another for your gear. http://www.sirmailorder.ca/show_prod.php?product_id=955...at_id=282&PHPSESSID=
You can also buy smaller/cheaper models

Hello;
You sure are pessimistic about the weather Chef. Actually, following the weather reports, a lot of times it isn't that cold up there, especially later in the winter. Well I guess, compared to Florida, it is.
There's an excellent article on bison hunting in the Dec. 2003 issue of Western Sportsman, that I've been keeping handy for my planned trip. I guess these are eligible for Boone and Crocket records. The author claims the best places to hunt are south of the Park, in the Birch Mountains and along the west side of the Park, Southeast of the Caribou Mtns. Acording to him, they can weigh in excess of 2000 lbs. The bison frequent the natural grasslands near the creks and lakes, which should narrow the search area.

One dressed out buffalo 800 lbs
One buffalo hide 150 lbs
one buffalo head um... 100 lbs



total 1050 lbs

That's a huge load for any snowmobile to pull through any amount of snow. And nearly impossible to go up steep hills.

From a usage point I think it would be ideal if 2 hunters were going to split one animal. The head could be done as a half wall mount. Each guy could get 1/2 of the robe and of course the meat would be split.

Unfortunately it would require more than 2 hunters, I agree that 3 would be a good number.


We hauled out 2 moose one year with 2 quads, it was shear hell. We were stuck in one mudhole for 3 hours. And we had big quads and all the proper stuff for getting in and out, so don't assume that we were stuck because we were inexperienced.

I shudder to think what could happen in deep snow with a large load to haul. It's obviously doable but the homework would take some time!!



It still sounds fun!

Grizz, I can take the cold like anyone else..but alas I don't like it!! I suffer through it to do the things I love. If a guy was gone a week or more it could get pretty gruesome. There would have to be a way to dry your clothes every night or you'd freeze.

Another thing to check out would be the ice roads in the area. It might be possible to get closer on one of them. Then the freezing yer ass off part would be shorter.

I spent most of a week once in a 10 x 12 tent with a small wood stove in -30. It's an experience I will remember for the rest of my life. The tent would be warm till you went to sleep and the stove went out. Overnight, condensation from your breath would collect and freeze on the roof and when you started the fire in the morning, it would rain. But then, you'd probably have to re-mortgage the house to afford a hotel in Ft. Mac Murrey I keep telling my wife when she suggests a southern vacation, I'd rather freeze than cook. After all. you can always put more clothes on, but you can only take so many off, without being arrested
Grizz

John, the trophy quality of the MacKenzie herd is good, I went in and assessed it when the hunting began about 15 years ago, and I've kept an eye on them since. There's only about 30 animals taken per year, out of 5-6000, so most deaths are of old age! And, you have to understand that of the 10? that are taken by non-residents and guided, I'd think they're mostly "representative" or "best today" trophies. The guides used are not into B&C, just want to get it over and done with, and their main purpose is to assure bulls are taken (and they often screw this up!) and to take the blood sample and tooth. Bottom line is to know what you want, look them over the first couple of days at least until you find the right one before 1:00pm (it'll be getting dark by 4:00 in January). Every trip down the road I see a couple of "great" bulls. The big stumbling block for the non-resident is that the guides all must be "aboriginal" from Fort Providence (it's their community quota). Jerome did cut an "exclusive agent" deal awhile back and that's when I quit sending any hunters to them. You also have to remember that they're still "Endangered" on Cites, so can't be taken stateside. I'm gone for 10 days but can fill you in more if you're interested when I get back. ~Arctic~

Hi John,

The blood is fresher than you think. I took a fellow out a couple of times in March. We got on a couple of bulls but the guy was pretty green and did not get off a shot. Plenty of time for one. Next day we spotted some bulls a long way off, but now we knew where they were. In some pretty rugged shit. Next day, I was able to get on thier track by poking my finger in thier shit muffins. Lots of old tracks. We followed them for several miles in dense bush, once we had thier track and came upon them at 50 yards. Again the guy couldn't get off a shot.
I calmly said to the guy," Hey, are you gonna shoot one these or not" while the bison were looking at us. It was a blast, none the less. We got an 'A' for effort.
We went out again and got on 5 big bulls. We shot the biggest. It was the fellows first big game animal. He was a jumbo. B&C bull for sure. When we were butchering him I noticed that he had no meat on his one shoulder blade. We find out later, it was a bullet wound that broke his leg and had healed up completely. The hunter I was with, shot this bull in the other shoulder and broke it. The 220 gr.(30-06) bullet did not comletely penetrate the shoulder.The bull did not even flinch. He just took off. I put one in his ribs and he fell over. Shot placement is most important because they are not built like most of the game we are used to.

Calgarychef and Grizzly Adams,

Cold? what cold. It keeps the snow from melting and allows you to use a snowmachine.

I use 2 skimmers. One behind the other. I can haul a whole butchered bison this way. Not deboned. I keep the bone in on bison. I like to let them hang for a while. If I get to a nasty spot. I disconect one skimmer and then go back for the other to get through the tough spots. One trip for the meat and a second trip for the camp for 1 guy/sled. A bison for each guy is reasonable and you are correct, an extra person and machine would make a big difference. One one hunt, Jack and I killed 2 bulls side by side. We butchered our own bull, then the next day we hauled out the meat then did a second trip for the camp. It made for a long day, about 100 miles, total. It was a good time.
I travel with my camp and set up at the kill site. I light a fire close to the kill if it is very cold to warm water and warm hands.
I also carry a small coleman gas stove under my snowmachine seat. I set it under the hood of my machine in the morning for a bit when it is -40. I don't care if it is cold, if it is not windy. It is the wind that makes it a little tougher. Keeping warm and dry is not normally a problem.
One time, while we were in the high country, it got completely dark long before we could get to tree line. We tied our wall tent to the 2 snowmachines and the skimmers. We burned some dwarf spruce in the stove. We made due, It was a nice camp.
I guess that is enough bable for now,

If I could figure out how to post photo's on here one of these days, I could show you my set up. Pretty simple.
John knows how it's done, except I think his guides are getting soft if it takes 3 of them to clean up his bison.

Got to run,

Daryl

quote:

Originally posted by Yukoner:
John knows how it's done, except I think his guides are getting soft if it takes 3 of them to clean up his bison.

WHEW! Good thing Dave doesn't surf the net to see that comment! Seriously, We didn't need the wrangler on this last hunt (needed him more on the first one when he wasn't there of course) but it was sure nice having the help.

quote:

Originally posted by Yukoner:
I use 2 skimmers. One behind the other. I can haul a whole butchered bison this way. Not deboned. I keep the bone in on bison. I like to let them hang for a while. If I get to a nasty spot. I disconect one skimmer and then go back for the other to get through the tough spots.

For some of us who are traditionally desert rats, every spot when you're on a snowmachine is a "tough" or "nasty" spot. I'm getting better though...I think I only flew off the trail two or three times this last trip and managed not to ruin my belt!


Hey, feel free to email me those photos and I will post them for you here.

Best,

John

I'm a bit busy right now guys, but it's beginning to look like a fellowship is forming: the Fellowship of the Horn, buffalo horn that is. I'd be keen on doing it, have been for a while. With almost a year to prep, costs can be spread out a bit. Grizz and I are off after bear in a little while, but after that we should get together and start making plans.

How's that sound? Who's in?

Frans

How about "The Fellowship of the Bull"?

Seriously, I'm in as usual. Honestly, I'd show up just to help haul meat and for the joy of being really cold...shooting something would only be a bonus!

Best,

John

I'd be in...I got lotsa gear to add to the pot.

quote:

Originally posted by Frans Diepstraten:
I'm a bit busy right now guys, but it's beginning to look like a fellowship is forming: the Fellowship of the Horn, buffalo horn that is. I'd be keen on doing it, have been for a while. With almost a year to prep, costs can be spread out a bit. Grizz and I are off after bear in a little while, but after that we should get together and start making plans.

How's that sound? Who's in?

Frans

I was really serious about going hunting bison around that park in Alta at one time. The drive there is the problem. I have to go south to Ft.St John(15 hours) then east and then North again. I would do it in a heart beat if it were not for the fact that I can be hunting Bison within 1 hour of my house. It would be like me going to Alaska to hunt Dall sheep. I will most likely get the oppertunity to hunt bison again next winter here close to home. You get the picture.


I would be more than willing to help out any way I can, otherwise.

How about a whitetail hunt in Saskatchewan, or an antelope hunt in the states. I would be up for that. What do you think?

Daryl

I hunt whitetail almost every year in Sask. We might be able to work out some kind of trade...

the chef

calgarychef1

I grew up in Saskatchewan, family still lives there. Killed more whitetail and muledeer than I was entitled to. Farmer mentality: We feed 'em... we eat'em. Those were the old days.

So what are you going to trade me if we go to Saskatchewan?


Daryl

Ha ha...........funny guy.

quote:

and some privately owned pure wood bison herds

Have live pure-bred Wood Bison ever been imported into the US? I have never heard of any Wood Bison being in the US, but was just wondering if any had been imported to establish any herds.

Thanks

I don't think there is in the lower 48.

There is some Wood Bison in Alaska, I am sure.
They are not 100% pure though. The Yukon gov't does not want ours to mix with the Alaskan ones.

Apparently, The nuts on the US bison are smaller than the Canadian ones as well.


Daryl

I'd love to hutn bison in BC, problem is gettig a tag at 300 to 1 odds!!