Kutenay

Where do you actually live as you dont seem to read the BC regs much.

"In B.C., a resident must wait for three to five years between Sheep kills and much Sheep hunting is now on Limited Entry. I think that where this is the case, ALL non-resident hunting should be stopped and ALL Guide-Outfitter quotas should be cancelled. I would like to see ALL "non-resident alien" hunting cancelled in B.C. and all other parts of Canada. The current 10% quota for G/Os should be used as a basis for a lottery in which ALL Canadians can participate, B.C. residents included, this should apply to ALL other provinces and territories, as well."

Where are you getting facts? Have you read the BC regs. I can hunt and kill bighorns in the Kootenays every year. I can hunt and kill california bighorns in the Caribou every year. I can hunt and kill thinhorns in the Skeena (Region 6) every year. Only region 7 is one thinhorn every three years and the guide quotas have been reduced dramatically in that same region. Limited entry hunts for sheep are only in areas where they are in a park or in a duck shoot areas. Region 3 and 5 are on LEH because the numbers crashed a few years ago. In Region 8 the sheep crashed afew years ago and only this past year were 2 tags given out. The outfitters only got one tag for three outfitts. That means one guide gets one in this year, the next guide the next year and so on.

If our resources are so depleted that you reccommend that all hunters including BC residents apply for an LEH for 10% of the quota, what are you doing on a hunting website. Those are comments I could see coming from Earthcare or some animal rights site?

Alex

Well, it seems I am a bad boy and don't know what I am talking about, so, I will clarify the situation.

"BlueNorther", you are correct in one thing, I do NOT want to share Canadian raw, natural resources with foreigners, especially wildlife. I actually am a former employee of the Alberta Forest Service and have seen the situation there, firsthand; as a native-born Canadian and legal Alberta resident, I did not then and do not now want to see foreign trophy hunters taking Alberta wildlife. As to the job losses from the potential shutdown of the Guide-Outfitter industry, that is nothing compared to the enormous losses suffered by our farmers/ranchers due to American refusal to accept our agricultural products; since most of the foreign hunters in Alberta are Americans, I really don't give a shit whether they suffer or not. I'm a Canadian and I care about my country, not foreign hunters.

As to African nations, what they choose to do is their affair, I don't interfere in other people's domestic issues. As to hunting in Alberta, I am qualified to do so and sharing among CANADIANS is the whole point of this thread.

Sheephunter, you are a Californian, it is not up to you to tell me what my Canadian resident rights are or are not. While B.C. actually finances wildlife management from a combination of fees and general revenue tax monies; it is my birthright to hunt here whereas you and other foreigners have NO rights here and any hunting, etc. that you do is at OUR discretion. As to "smell" that's your own bullshit!

The countermeasures that you mention are a fucking joke, you already place punitive duties upon our softwood lumber while demanding that we sell you OUR natural gas at our own domestic prices. So, we are about to stop giving you any access to our wildlife, seems fair to me.

Madgoat, Nonresident alien hunting is currently legal in B.C. and an American politely inquired about it. Here in Canada, we value traditional British style manners very highly, at least real Canadians do; so, given the tone of his query, I helped him with some experience based information. Contrary to what "Ovis" posted, I have spent a great deal of time, most of it working in resource management, in northern B.C., Alberta and even the Terrorities. So, those who do not demonstrate the attitude that I have seen all too frequently from American hunters-anglers here, that they have the "right" to our fish and wildlife at what they consider "fair prices" tend to get courteous assistance from we Canadians.

AlexB, I was born in B.C., I have lived here all of my life except when temporarily working in other parts of Canada and six generations of my family have lived here in the past 135 years. I have been active in many conservation organizations since I was fourteen yrs. old, in 1960; this includes some time on the B.C. Wildlife Federation executive (Lower Mainland). I certainly read the regs. and they show that B.C. resident hunters cannot hunt Sheep in every area of the Province each year as you so kindly pointed out, thank you for the clarification.

I find your posts confusing as you seem to advocate both a reduction in G/O quotas and increased opportunities for we residents; as the Region 3 situation demonstrates, this cannot happen. The three Sheep permits should be taken away from the G/Os and reserved for B.C. residents first and other Canadians second.

You seem to misunderstand my point as what I am recommending will actually increase your opportunities and mine. I want the present Guide/Outfitter quota and ONLY that to be made into a lottery style draw in which all Canadians, including B.C. residents could participate, this would not lessen B.C. hunter's chances, it would increase them and the current portion of our Game now open to residents would not be affected. If, a given population of Sheep, for example, "crashed" then this lottery programn would be suspended until they recovered; in all aspects, residents of each Province would have preference.

I notice a certain unpleasantness among some of the American posters on this issue and I find this ironic. I understand that many U.S. jurisdictions have very similar policies where a given state issues "non-resident" tags for a portion of their annual harvest and this is done by a draw system. Alaska, for example, allows U.S. citizens to hunt there, but, I cannot since I am a Canadian....unless I pay very substantial guide fees.

What I want is for we Canadians to simply do likewise and reserve our rare wildlife for our own people. If, some American hunter cannot get his "Grand Slam", too bad. Canada is not a colony of the USA and we have the right to determine any policies we want to in respect of our wildlife, weapons in space, banning American magazines or freaking Mickey Mouse! The attitudes demonstrated on this thread do not intimidate me, they simply make me more determined to put an end to non-resident alien hunting....and it will happen.

Kutenay,

On the second page of this thread, you're the one that stated you had only hunted in Northern B.C. three times.........as far as the U.S. and it's trade policies, well, I built, with the help of my son and one friend, my own cabin out of "local" rough cut spruce timber.........it is sheathed completely, top, sides and bottom with wood products from B.C. Alaska requires the non-resident alien to hire a guide............every province I've hunted in Canada has required the same of me..........looking at your post here makes me think of the word zenophobia for one reason or another...........I feel sorry for people like you.......you miss out on so much that others have to offer.......Canadians have a well deserved international reputation for being friendly and considerate...........what happened to you?????????????????????????????

"ovis"

Kutenay

First let me spell out my bonafides.

I am a US citizen. Born in Williams Lake BC to a Canadian Mother and American Father. I have half of my family living in BC and Alberta. I have close to $700,000 invested in Canada including a 1/2 interest in a a ranch in the Chilcotin with 1400 Deeded acres and around 10,000 more in Crown lease.

Despite this, I cannot hunt in BC with our paying a Guide/Outfitter, even on my own property.

Your statement.

Quote:

---

I understand that many U.S. jurisdictions have very similar policies where a given state issues "non-resident" tags for a portion of their annual harvest and this is done by a draw system. Alaska, for example, allows U.S. citizens to hunt there, but, I cannot since I am a Canadian....unless I pay very substantial guide fees.

---

The only differance here is BC is more stringent in their Outfitter requirements, requiring non resident Canadians to use an outfitter also. Alaska only allows non residents citizens to hunt a couple of species without a Guide. Black Bear, Deer, Caribou and Moose. I believe Alberta also requires an Outfitter for non resident aliens?

States with draws do not differentiate between non residents and non resident aliens. Anybody may apply. Washington does not have a draw system and anybody may buy a tag over the counter and put in for any LEDs that a State resident may.. I am not sure why anybody would want to come here and hunt though.

Your frustration seems to come more from US Government trade practices than hunting opportunity. I am not sure what one has to do with the other but be careful of what you wish for. If all nonresidents are banned from hunting in Canada than what will be the response? Banning all Canadians from hunting anywhere else in the World?

I doubt my relatives would want to give up their Dove Hunts in Sonora and AZ. so that more of the Canadian Bush can be kept visitor free.

Do you really think the Outfitters will be able to switch over to taking residents hunting? Will residents be willing to pay the big dollars that it takes to keep an Outfitter equipped? If they will, why don't they do so now?

One other question. With so much of the BC population living in the Lower Mainland and not interested in hunting how long before it is banned altogether? Perhaps some subsistance and Native hunting hanging on.

The word is actually "xenophobia" and it refers to feelings about foreigners and foreign intrusion into one's homeland that are becoming quite common in Canada. If, tone of your initial post had been less condecending and not a crude attempt to portray me as an inexperienced novice who knows not whereof he speaks, I might be somewhat less inclined to feel as I and a great many Canadians do.

In any event, my concern is with environmental and national issues in Canada; after the past few years, the personal feelings of Americans no longer concern me. After the way that the USA has treated us, I also am not too interested in anything they have to offer. This is the Canadian section of an international forum which is why I choose to post this here.

I think that if you were born in Canada and one of your parents is/was a Canadian citizen, you have an automatic claim to Canuckedness, in law. So, if you pursued this, you could become a dual citizen, I think.

You pose an interesting question and my first point is very simple; I do not believe in and would abolish any land ownership by persons who did not hold Canadian citizenship. The size of a given "investment" is irrelevant to me; this constant stressing of money as an entry factor into Canadian hunting is a major part of my opposition to non-resident alien hunting.

In your case, I would actually assist you in any way I could to gain your birthright to hunt, vote or whatever. I believe, profoundly, that anyone born in Canada is as Canadian as I am or anyone else is and is a "Native", period. Who your parents were has nothing to do with it and I urge you to seek your rights in this respect.

I cannot see the current Provincial government ever trying to stop you from hunting on your deeded land, actually, that would be a really interesting test case, given the current brou-hah-ha over the "rights" of various groups to hunt in B.C.

If, other jurisdictions wish to ban Canadians from whatever, they will do so and nothing we can do will prevent that. Canada is not like the USA in that we do not attempt to impose our policies on other nations by military force nor do we constantly, aggressively export our popular culture in the guise of "freedom", a term which Americans seem to consider synonymous with military action.

The Guide-Outfitters currently will often not take residents into their territories and I know this from considerable, personal experience. Many of them are actually Americans who live and pay taxes in the USA and are only here during hunting season. If, they cannot continue in business, that does not concern me in the least as the rights of residents are far more important than the profits of some cowboy from Texas or surgeon from Georgia, again, this is not a colony of the USA and many of us are tired of foreigners shooting our game.

B.C. hunting is unique, as you well know and shooting Doves in some distant desert hardly compares. I don't care if some people want to go elsewhere to hunt, thats up to them. The Lower Mainland has thousands of hunters and those I have spoken to on this issue strongly support my attitude; I think that your final point is somewhat of a scarlet mackerel, as you are well aware. Again, we Canadians have a RIGHT to institute any resource policies we want to, it is OUR country.

Kutenay,

Spelling correction well received..............about my crude attempts, condecending tone............well, that may be a case of the kettle calling the pot black......as an Alaskan and American, I respect your feelings and political leanings....and about your "hunting experience", I was mistaken there, too.............it wasn't the second page, it was your second post on this topic.............I'll leave you to your own forum now, I'm done, you win......by the way, on another of your posts, different topic; KGB? I know you can spell "xenophobia", eh?

"ovis"