Early this morning, at his home in Toronto, one of the most "anti" of Canada's gunbanners, NDP leader Jack Layton, died of cancer. Layton, was 61 and had a long career in poltiics and was among the most destructive individuals in Canada, where our birthright to own and use guns is concerned.

Amazes me to no end, how many people actually say they will miss this Asshole. Sleaziest of politicians we've had for a long time. Good by Jack and here's hoping there's a special place for you, in Hell.

Wow tough crowd. ..but sounds like the same stuff I said when I heard the news.

Oh, for fucks sake, they're giving him a state funeral:

http://www.680news.com/news/na...p-leader-jack-layton

He was in parliament 5 years, and was the leader of an "also ran" party the entire time. It demeans the institution.

Bonehead move, Harper!!

How about RIP? Besides, isn't your gun law registration going to be cancelled with higher probability now?

quote:

Originally posted by WannabeBwana:
Oh, for fucks sake, they're giving him a state funeral:

http://www.680news.com/news/na...p-leader-jack-layton

He was in parliament 5 years, and was the leader of an "also ran" party the entire time. It demeans the institution.

Bonehead move, Harper!!

Well, you couldn't expect Harper to throw a party in celebration of the fact he is the only one still standing, of all the party leaders, prior to the last election. Poor Quebeckers who voted for the NDP. Crawled out on a branch and sawed it off behind them.

Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by Hunter54:
How about RIP? Besides, isn't your gun law registration going to be cancelled with higher probability now?

Majority gov't, Layton and the NPD had about as much chance of stopping ANY legislation as a flea climbing in an elephant's twat with rape on its mind.

Well who would have known. I guess he must have gotten the same promise achilles got from the gods; invincible, fame, glory, but, a short life.

With Jack it must have been election to the loyal oposition, a move in to Stornaway and then death.

If I'd have known that, I would have voted for the bastard earlier in his carear .

Kind regards,

Carpediem

quote:

Originally posted by Hunter54:
How about RIP? Besides, isn't your gun law registration going to be cancelled with higher probability now?

I don't know anything about the deceased or much about Canadian politics, but it is my firm belief that dying doesn't make a no-good SOB any less of a no-good SOB, it just makes him dead and good riddance.

It is sad to hear the about the passing of anyone.

So, does this bolster the contention that shooting firearms reduces risk of cancer?

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

I don't know anything about the deceased or much about Canadian politics, but it is my firm belief that dying doesn't make a no-good SOB any less of a no-good SOB, it just makes him dead and good riddance.

Man, I couldn't agree more! However, if you had been in Toronto for his funeral, you would have thought that the he was the Second Coming. I had no respect for him alive or dead, but I was astonished at the number of folks who hated him for his political views, and yet wailed like banshees at the loss of this "charismatic" jerk.

Now if only the same damned thing would happen to the whole Liberal party.

It is they who passed the legislation in 1978 requiring the FAC beginning January 1, 1979. It is also they who initiated the registry to start with. Until then we could buy long guns with no permit of any kind, through the mail, even from overseas.

I was warned in 1976 by a Director General of CSIS (my good friend Eric Brick) that they intended to do all of that, and they slowly but surely did. Of course, I don't think much of the Tories, the Grits, or the national NDP. They all want our votes and want to tax the Hell out of all of western Canada to pay for their vote-buying dole in the East, but none of them (as an entire party) are really our friends....a FEW of their individual members are, but not the parties themselves.

Well, THAT requires a bit of correction and the first comment I would make is that while the Liberals initiated THIS particular round of Canadian "gun control", it was the Progressive Conservatives under the worst Prime Minister in Canadian history, Bryan Mulroney, that REALLY brought in the most onerous aspects of it.

Mulroney, the rat bastard who sold out Canada though NAFTA, to the accursed "damn Yankee" corporatists of the Ray-Gun administration and his protege, that little blonde bimbo, Kim Campbell, took the simple FAC system, brought in by Pierre Trudeau's government and made it the basis of the draconian legislation imposed by the second-worst P.M. in Canadian history, Jean Chretien. This, is what we are encumbered with now, damn both of these lying, corrupt, big-business minions to hell!

The comments concerning the supposed taxing of western Canada, to benefit some ...East... are simply wrong. They show a lack of understanding of how Canadian governance works that is quite typical of many immigrants to Canada, especially those from south of the 49th. I will not go into minute detail concerning this here as I doubt it is of interest to many reading this, however, the system we have is intended to ensure that ALL Canadians benefit from the wealth of ALL regions of Canada and it works quite well.

The eastern regions of Canada, contain most of our population of founding peoples and they have a RIGHT to the wealth that is based on the CANADIAN resources in BC or Alberta. This, is not open to discussion, it is a fundamental fact of Canadian evolution and national unity.

The REAL problem in western Canada, is NOT the payments to the "Feds" to be distributed to "have not" provinces; it IS the massive immigration of foreign nationals and this INCLUDES Americans and the subsequent negative effects upon traditional Canadian culture and the destructive influence of foreign involvement in our resource industries.

What we NEED to do, is to severely curtail ALL immigration, get out of NAFTA and all such trade agreements and shut down the Alberta Tar Sands, except ONLY those aspects of it required for domestic uses. I would like to see this resource nationalized and all other Canadian petro-resources also brought under our own control and foreigners booted out, "tout suite".

We NEED a NATIONALIST-NATIVIST true conservative form of government in Canada and do not need to cause inter-regional strife by denying the share of resource wealth to the Maritimes, for example, that western oil brings. The problem is supplying cheap, secure oil to the USA, it is not sharing with our fellow Canadians.

Layton, was a false pretender where this type of traditional NDP policy was concerned and that is why I despised him and always will. The original NDPers, staunch Canadian nationalists, such as the immortal T.C. "Tommy" Douglas, are heros of mine and always have been, would that we had such men in public office today!

Well, Dewey, I quite simply disagree with you on this set of "facts".

Joey Smallwood had enough sense when he brought Newfoundland into Canada in 1949, to see that they were NOT subjected to the same "ownership" of Newfie raw materials by the feds.

I have no objection to helping the Maritimes and other provinces who have a rough time. On the other hand, I have a lot of objections to things like the Crow railroad rate which requires western farmers to pay for shipping grain to Ontario as if it was first shipped to B.C. and then back to Ontario, instead of the cost of shipping directly from Saskatchwean or Alberta to Ontario.

Yet at the same time, to buy a combine, a car, or whatever large ticket item, manufactured in the east they have to pay as if it was shipped from Ontario to B.C., then back to Saskatchewan or Alberta. Something not quite kosher there, and that is not just my opinion. I got it from listening to the Saskatchewan and southern Alberta grain farmers (and a lot of other folks) in the small town cafes all over both provinces.

It was/is just one more way the millions of folks in Toronto and Montreal use the western provinces as "colonies" to benefit their own fiefdoms.

As to who initiated the long gun controls currently in force in Canada, I know who initiated them. I had an inside track into watching it occur. It was not the NDP or the Progressive Conservatives. It was the Liberals.

The Conservatives eventually passed the bill but then, as I said, not one of the three major parties is a true friend of shooters in Canada.

The last party which was a real friend of shooters pretty much died with E. Manning. Harry Strom was a good, honest, man too but he didn't have the charisma required to keep the party in power in Alberta. That was the prairie provinces version of the Socreds. Preston wasn't even a good shadow of his dad.

As for Peter Lougheed, the cat's paw of the Mannix family and its cronies, in my opinion he would have tried to sell out all of Canada to Iran if asked to by his corporate sponsors. He WAS a corporate attourney for the Loram (Mannix) and Beufort (Mannix again) groups of companies when he ran for and became Premier of Alberta.

Anyway, Canada, like the U.S., has the kind of gun controls it deserves. It votes in (and keeps in) the bastards who pass them into law. A pox on all their houses.

If you disagree, fine. Then we can agree to disagree on this subject.

What amazes me is how much both Canadians and Americans knee-jerk to defend their respective systems when anyone points out a flaw in one of THEIR sacred cows. They truly are one race, separated by a common language.

Edited to add: I worked personally for E. Manning, H. Strom, Tommy Douglas's NDP Saskatchewan government, and all three of the Mannixes, Freddy Sr., Freddy Jr., and Ronnie, so I knew all of those men. In my opinion, E. Manning and T. Douglas were the most honest and forthright people I have ever met in politics. And, believe it or not, the NDP government in Saskatchewan and the Socred government in Alberta were the only two governments I have ever seen in Canada OR the U.S. which really did have as their primary focus the betterment of the people instead of guaranteeing and maintaining the priviledged status of the corporate and aristocratic strata of society.

Added edit, again: I thoroughly agree with you on shutting down the wholesaling off of Canada's resources, including not only the oil resources, but also the timeber and grain resources. The3 latter I would not close off entirely, but would reduce to a rate which does not deplete the land, and ewhich isd within the natural renewal rate of the forests.

While I was at it, I would shut down a lot of the foreign-owned industries which chemically befoul Canadian lakes and waterways. After all, water will one day be Canada's most valuable and saleable natural resource. As for immigration, it is necessary, but should be allowed only to people who will be an asset to the country, not a liability. Blanket granting of political asylum is a fools' solution to the world's problems. That, of course, is most easily proved just by looking at what unlimited immigration did to Britain and is doing to the U.S. And Canada's old tradition of limiting corporate ownership to less than a"control" level bvy foreigners should be set in place again and strengthened.

NAFTA I believe, as I know you do, is disastrous for all its signatories. It makes the countries involved the servants of international corporations, who buyild as cheaply as possible wherever they can get, by coercion or otherwise, the cheapest labour. That ultimately ties all the signaqtories into the building of a mutually inhabited economic house of cards, which will fall like said house of cards when the least prop is removed.

We could go on agreeing on THOSE items forever, but this is not the place.

Have a good day.

AC

AC, it seems that you listen to some here in Canada, who are both too regional and self-serving in their political opinions and also have not learned much about Canadian history during your sojourn in my country. You make several egregious errors in your post, which I shall correct here.

The gun control we Canadians, currently suffer under was initiated in the "Dirty Thirties" by the CONSERVATIVE administration of Prime Minister Richard Bedford "Iron Heel" Bennett. Ironically, he WAS a "western" Canadian and from Calgary, where he had been a lawyer for the C.P.R. So, as I implied, it was the Conservatives, who started this, not the Liberals.

The registration of and banning of the carrying of handguns was the way that the Conservatives started the on-going process of complete elimination of privately-held firearms in Canada and it was, ironically, a labour dispute against the American Nazi-sympathizer and corporate mogul, Henry Ford, that was the issue they used to promote this invasion on the birthright of all REAL Canadians......not surprisingly.

You state that Canadians and Americans are ...one race...and this is absolutely false and is actually highly offensive to me and REAL Canadians like me, whose ancestors fought and beat the Yankee invaders several times during the period from the 16thC. to the latter 19thC. We are NOT a single people with the Americans and have never been.

This attitude is one of those that many Americans hold and it is one that supports American "manifest destiny" and "continentalism", which are the antithesis of how REAL Canadians view our country and our resources.

Canadian water is NOT a commodity and will NEVER be for sale, especially to the USA and the idea that it might be really shows where your loyalty lies and how you view Canada....as a "storehouse" of secure and inexpensive resources to "keep America strong". I have heard this kind of attitude from American residents here since I was a very young boy listening to the rhetoric behind "The Columbia River Treaty" and all of the other resource grabs by the USA that have made me so adamant concerning Canadian resources and who shall have access to them.

Western Canada, was opened and populated BY "eastern" Canadians, an example is Vancouver, where most neighbourhoods were settled by people from Ontario and the Maritimes and Ontario has provided payments to western provinces for much of their time in Confederation. In short, the idea that some "East" is ripping off "the West" here is nonsense, the situation is one of CANADIANS sharing OUR wealth with each other.

Anyway, we Canadians really need a totally new political party, hardline nationalist-nativist, socially very conservative, economically frugal and nationalist and environmentally very "green" and pro-hunting/fishing for sustence, equally among Canucks.....hey, dream big or go home, eh!

Dewey
Everything is for sale...

Dewey, you simply do not know what you are talking about when it comes to me, nor could you possibly.

As for my "one race" comment, if you are offended, that is your problem, not mine. Both countries were originally peopled by the British and the French immigrants, and the indigenous natives, though the American states did have some savoring or flavouring, whichever you prefer, mainly by the Spanish, but also by the Dutch, Irish, Jews, and others. The Canadian prairies were likewise enriched by imigrant communtiies from all over eastern Europe.

At any rate, that line I quoted was a famous bit of humour, nothing to get anyone's knickers too twisted by.

As for what Americans think about Canada, you haven't a clue there either.

Americans do not and never have viewed Canada as parrt of their Manifest Destiny. That is a convenient straw-man but doesn't hold any more water here than a straw man does in any debate.

Speaking of water, it is Canadians who always taught me that that water was their really valuable natural resource which they would eventually sell to other countries. At one time they even attempted to obtain financing for a coal slurry line from the Jasper area to the area near Hope, B.C. In the short run they wanted to sell the coal to the U.S and B.C. In the long run, they said it was the water which formed the slurry medium which they would really make the big profits on. I know that did not come about, YET and why, but I also know where the idea was being promorted from...from the Mannix family in Calgary, who own Manalta Coal (Mannix Alberta Coal), the same Manalta Coal which provided Edmonton and virtually all of Saskatchewan with their electrical power from coal-fired generator plants at places such as Lake Wabamun west of Edmonton, and from another just north of Regina. How do I know that? I held a Director position in Manalta Coal as well as wore several other Mannix corporate hats.

Having spent about half my working life in each country, I may not have perfect knowledge of them both, but at least I do have more than just a smattering.

And you should well know that the gun registry for long guns and the FAC did neither exist in Canada prior to 1979. As a matter of fact, the FACs were neither issued, nor required until January 1, 1979.

I know that well, as when I left for New Zealand in December 1978 as a member of the Canadian National Rifle Team, we had to get a special letter from the Prime Minister's Office to assure customs would allow our match rifles back into Canada when we returned at he end of January, 1979.

he government bureaucracy wouldn't bend enough to issue our FACs two weeks early so we could take them with us and have them when we returned,. And in the other direction the bureaucrats wouldn't allow us to re-import our rifles without having in our hot little hands a valid FAC for each of us. That even though wqe were all representing Canada at our own individual expense. So, the Prime Minister stepped in and issued a letter to each of us instructing Customs not to interfere with the re-importation of any of our rifles on our return.

I mean, Hell man, if you want to go back to the 1700s, it was Tory action to seize the guns and powder in a certain small New England colony which precipitated the fracas at Lexington and Concord...followed rather immediately by the revolt of the now United States against British rule.

And I know the Canadian version of history teaches about how the stalwart Canadians prevented the U.S. from invading and capturing all of Canada, but man, that is pure bull. Had the U.S. wanted Canada, it could have had it...just like it got California and Texas from Mexico. What he U.S. wanted was to end the murderous incursions into the U.S. from the north by both French and English backed indian tribes. Whether you believe that or not is irrelevant.

I am not going to fight any more with you here. I feel I must have pricked the balloon of a traditional Liberal party member...at least that is what it sounds like.

Though I do like your admiration for Tommy Douglas. I am surprised a bit by that too, as he WAS the father of the Canadian "socialized" medical system (NOT socialIST)...socialIZED meaning covering all of Canadian society.

Anyway, I still wish you a good day, and still say both nations have the gun laws they deserve, neither having done enough to assure its basic freedoms of its citizens to be armed for their own defense against all enemies, domestic or foreign.

We are working on that here, but I doubt we will win against rhe lefties and the U.N. politics in the long run. I hope Canada outdoes us in that respect...but time will surely tell.

And both countries need a new political party which supports the people against the rape of the citizens by the multinational corporate fat cats.

Please excuse my typos. I was never a clerk-typist.

As I have suspected, you are a Yankee to the core and your former presence in MY country was as one of the accursed foreigners attempting to take Canadian resources for the USA. Yankees, never change and your ludicrous and historically false comments here demonstrate that.

Since, you do not wish to further debate these issues, I will only say that I am not now, have never been and will probably never be a supporter of The Liberal Party of Canada. The only way that would change would be if the LPC were to elect a hardcore REAL Canadian as leader, who would actually DO what Pierre Trudeau, started in his National Energy Policy and also enact legislation to move Canada away from the USA. to our enormous benefit in all respects.

We do, as you point out, have some traitors in Canada, just as you do in the USA and these creatures will sell out our resources to anyone. This, IS changing and much faster than many geriatrically-challenged persons seem to realize. BC, alone has started to rebound from the "softwood" debacle and the Yankee-based business here has decreased markedly during just the past year, while actual lumber exports to Asia have greatly increased.....this will, I think, continue and the USA section of our business will continue to decline, as it should.

While you can make any false statements about ...Canadian history... that, in your characteristic Yankee arrogance, you wish to. the FACT remains that the Yankees went running home after every one of their invasions of Canada and I am proud that my ancestors were among the Anglo-Canadians who saved Canada from Yankee takeover.

As to "Manifest Destiny", maybe READ the actual comments concerning northern expansion by Yankees, such as James Munroe and James Madison, among many others? Here, in BC, the great Sir James Douglas, first Premier of BC, had to raise a militia force to prevent Yankees from flying the Yankee flag at mining camps and making BC an American possession.

However, while I can take this further, I have made the points I consider important and would only make it clear that you are NOT a Canadian, your understanding of Canadian evolution is minimal and erroneous and while you can spew all the bullshit here that you wish to, the majority of Canadian opinion is strongly against selling our water, especially to the USA.

Face it, sport, your kind of Yankee involvement in MY country, "is history" and will never return. If, you lived here now, you would soon learn that Canadians are not as willing to allow massive resource projects that benefit the USA as was the case forty years ago.

The object of this thread was the demise of Jack Layton, a very poor example of a Canadian, as he did not support the example set by great Canadian leaders before him, MacDonald, Laurier, Borden and MacKenzie-King, where dealing with the USA is concerned. I hope to see a far better example of a REAL Canadian, take over as Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition and there is a young chap in northern BC who might just do that.

So, AC, as a corporatist manager, maybe you can lend your expertise to assisting with you country building that fence along the 49th, this would be a wonderful project and would prevent all of those Canadian aborigines from raiding south to take your Yankee scalps.........har, har, har!

Hey Dewey, this is the CANADIAN HUNTING FORUM. How about keeping your pompous ass, arrogant posts confined to the political area of the website?

Hey, as a Guide and Outfitter in Manitoba, why don't you tell us just how Canadian resource and sovereignity issues are not relevant to Canadian hunting and shooting? Perhaps, as with some foreign-born GOs here in BC, you really think that we Canadians should all be required to hire a guide to hunt in our own country and the GOs should control all hunting and "manage" all the game, eh?

YOU might not consider the behaviour of Layton and his policies concerning banning handguns in Canada relevant to this forum, but, I do and I will comment on such issues as I see fit. I spoke to the office of my current M.P. Don Davies, on meeting with Layton as he was Layton's companion on the Vancouver visit to promote this at the time of the vote in Parliament and they were evasive and lied to me.....not really a surprise.

So, I take action to preserve what few firearms freedoms we have left in Canada, I do not sell out for money as you have done and then pretend that having a passport makes me a REAL Canadian, you sleazy traitor.

Since, you don't like this and never contribute anything here other than ignorant remarks about issues far beyond your limited ability to comprehend, I suggest that you take your insolent ass off to another site where morons are welcome and leave the serious work here to we who know whereof we speak. Don't let the door hit you in your backside on the way out!

We just had a provincial election yesterday and the NDP won their 4th straight majority government. Unlike you, I don't blame the party, it's the people. That would be your beloved, ill-brained majority of Canadians. As the saying goes, we get the government we deserve.
At least I'm not a Limey displaced in Canada.

I see that the worthy people of Manitoba elected yet another NDP government and can only say that if that is their choice, that is how "democracy" functions, eh.

I am not an NDPer, but, I do remember and deeply respect many of the oldtime CCFers of my youth, such as Stanley Knowles, Tommy Douglas, H.W. Bert Herridge, "The Squire of Kootenay West" and his successor, Randolph "Bo" Harding. These were people who fought for the average Canadian and while I sometimes disagreed with their policies, I always admired them as the fine men and great Canadians they were.

If, your comment about a ...Limey... was directed at me, it is as foolish as almost every other post you make here. I am of partial Limey ancestry, but, do not have an English, Scots, Irish or Welsh-Cornish surname and am a native Canadian. But, such stupidity is what I expect from you based on your usual comments.

To get away from inter-personal strife and make this thread a useful discussion of the problems we in Canada, face concerning our firearms and hunting sports, industry and the future, I would ask one simple, polite question. Do you think that ANY political party now in Manitoba, would be superior to any other in REALLY protecting our interests. Reply politely and I will respond in kind as this forum provides a tremendous resource for all of us now living in Canada, to exchange information and ideas on how to save our gun-hunting traditions.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:

To get away from inter-personal strife and make this thread a useful discussion of the problems we in Canada, face concerning our firearms and hunting sports, industry and the future, I would ask one simple, polite question. Do you think that ANY political party now in Manitoba, would be superior to any other in REALLY protecting our interests. Reply politely and I will respond in kind as this forum provides a tremendous resource for all of us now living in Canada, to exchange information and ideas on how to save our gun-hunting traditions.

I detest any socialist thinking and I believe you'd have to agree that Tommy Douglas' idea of universal free health care was not what it is today.
Socialism is for the lazy to be comfortable at the expense of the working, not at all unlike communism. You'd be surprised how many members of the NDP are former CPC members(Communist Party of Canada).
I am disappointed in all political parties in Canada. I've actually considered myself more of a Liberal in years past, but now it seems even the Tories are way left of what the Liberals were some time ago. I have no illusions that politicians are trustworthy, but I do believe the Tories are the best bet we have in this country for preserving anything related to guns and hunting.
The NDP in this province has eroded the Department of Conservation to the point where they receive less than minimal funding and they'd like nothing more than to hand control of our natural resources over to the indians. We are now stuck with them for 4 more years and I can assure you we will be in the same boat as Ontario was when Bob Rae was at the helm.

Dewey, as I said, you haven't a clue what I am.

I AM a Canadian, whether you like it or not.

I NEVER exploited ANY Canadian natural resource. I have rebuffed the few Americans I knew who would have. I believe in a strong and independent Canada. I also believe in a strong and independent U.S.A., even if that means some in both countries feel betrayed.

What you suspect or feel about me is bordering on paranoia, and is not based on fact. I am sorry about that. I have always supported you here and feel at heart you are a good, well intentioned, man. But, I don't respect your biased personal attacks on me or anyone else.

I believe Canada is full of good men, who would do whatever they could to protect the country if they needed to, and I admire that. The plain fact is though, that no matter how well they might do as individuals if it came to actual battle with each other, it doesn't matter how well we Canadians would fight. We are outnumbered at least 10-to-1. If the U.S. ever seriously decided to invade Canada, I suggest there is little doubt of the outcome, just because the disparity in numbers would allow the U.S. to win any war of attrition..

Thank God it will never come to that, and we can both support each other by applying some common sense and not just fervor to our relationships.

I hope you have a nice day, and I hope you someday come to understand that I am as Canadian at heart as you are.

Until then, Pax vobiscum.

Hi A.C.

It is rather grey and rain here today.

Take care.




Glenn

quote:

Originally posted by sprayandpray:

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:

To get away from inter-personal strife and make this thread a useful discussion of the problems we in Canada, face concerning our firearms and hunting sports, industry and the future, I would ask one simple, polite question. Do you think that ANY political party now in Manitoba, would be superior to any other in REALLY protecting our interests. Reply politely and I will respond in kind as this forum provides a tremendous resource for all of us now living in Canada, to exchange information and ideas on how to save our gun-hunting traditions.

I detest any socialist thinking and I believe you'd have to agree that Tommy Douglas' idea of universal free health care was not what it is today.
Socialism is for the lazy to be comfortable at the expense of the working, not at all unlike communism. You'd be surprised how many members of the NDP are former CPC members(Communist Party of Canada).
I am disappointed in all political parties in Canada. I've actually considered myself more of a Liberal in years past, but now it seems even the Tories are way left of what the Liberals were some time ago. I have no illusions that politicians are trustworthy, but I do believe the Tories are the best bet we have in this country for preserving anything related to guns and hunting.
The NDP in this province has eroded the Department of Conservation to the point where they receive less than minimal funding and they'd like nothing more than to hand control of our natural resources over to the indians. We are now stuck with them for 4 more years and I can assure you we will be in the same boat as Ontario was when Bob Rae was at the helm.

We agree on this, Canadian society has rapidly changed in the past decades since Diefenbaker's and Trudeau's naive leglislative initiatives to supposedly make people in Canada, "equal" and the changes have NOT benefited the working, taxpaying Canuck in any respect.

I agree on the members of the N.D.P. as I once attended a meeting at the home of an NDP MP and prominently displayed on the frontroom wall was a very large poster of that paragon of "progressive" and "humanitarian" values, Josef Stalin.......that was one of the experiences that caused me to stop voting NDP.

I am largely a "MacDonald Tory", with the realization that Mulroney, Campbell and Harper are NOT true Canadian conservatives, but, are supporters of internatonal corporatism....as was Paul Martin and that caricature from Shawinigan. These are people who sold out long ago and the system now is so distorted that the wishes of the Canadian people are not expressed in the policies of the major parties.

We have had EXACTLY the same cuts to the BC resource-environment agencies that you mention happening in Manitoba and I witnessed this under that buffoon, Klein, in Alberta, as an employee of the Forest Service there. Here, the lefties handed over more power to the drumpounders, but, it has been the BC Liberals, actually a corporatist-conservative party, that have REALLY given the injuns power to control huge areas of land and resources.

I can go into detail on this, but, like you, I am very skeptical about any of these political groups and not very optimistic about the future of guns and sports-subsistence hunting here in BC or in Canada, as a whole.

Funny, how the very activities which founded Canada, are now unacceptable to the "instant citizens" that we have so many of, yet, blocking public streets with huge "religious" parades featuring large banners with photos of convicted terrorist-murderers seems to be just fine and somehow "enriches" Canadian culture......

The Prime Minister of Canada and the Premier of BC just attended one of these events and wore the clothing of the group in question....guess they can get more "voters" out than we hunters-shooters can........

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:

We agree on this, Canadian society has rapidly changed in the past decades since Diefenbaker's and Trudeau's naive leglislative initiatives to supposedly make people in Canada, "equal" and the changes have NOT benefited the working, taxpaying Canuck in any respect.

I agree on the members of the N.D.P. as I once attended a meeting at the home of an NDP MP and prominently displayed on the frontroom wall was a very large poster of that paragon of "progressive" and "humanitarian" values, Josef Stalin.......that was one of the experiences that caused me to stop voting NDP.

I am largely a "MacDonald Tory", with the realization that Mulroney, Campbell and Harper are NOT true Canadian conservatives, but, are supporters of internatonal corporatism....as was Paul Martin and that caricature from Shawinigan. These are people who sold out long ago and the system now is so distorted that the wishes of the Canadian people are not expressed in the policies of the major parties.

We have had EXACTLY the same cuts to the BC resource-environment agencies that you mention happening in Manitoba and I witnessed this under that buffoon, Klein, in Alberta, as an employee of the Forest Service there. Here, the lefties handed over more power to the drumpounders, but, it has been the BC Liberals, actually a corporatist-conservative party, that have REALLY given the injuns power to control huge areas of land and resources.

I can go into detail on this, but, like you, I am very skeptical about any of these political groups and not very optimistic about the future of guns and sports-subsistence hunting here in BC or in Canada, as a whole.

Funny, how the very activities which founded Canada, are now unacceptable to the "instant citizens" that we have so many of, yet, blocking public streets with huge "religious" parades featuring large banners with photos of convicted terrorist-murderers seems to be just fine and somehow "enriches" Canadian culture......

The Prime Minister of Canada and the Premier of BC just attended one of these events and wore the clothing of the group in question....guess they can get more "voters" out than we hunters-shooters can........

Agreed, and to sum up my feelings;
Citizens in all western countries, including Canada, have had it too good for too long. They believe life owes them a living, entertainment is a right and government will step in to help whenever they are in a pile of shit. They lack pride and ambition. Individual rights and freedoms are being eroded daily. This is why I loathe socialism. A mass of people have never been beneficial to a country, it's always been individuals who are innovative and bring forth ideas.

The corporatist "conservatives", now in power under Harper, actually are just as much a part of this as any of the leftist-socialist parties and are increasing non-traditional immigration to cause even greater crowding of our medical system, educational institutions and so forth.

It was the traitor, Mulroney, who opened immigration to "family class" applicants and now we pay O.A.P. to elderly foreigners who have never paid dime one into Canada and who mock our traditions and encourage terrorists in our cities......come to BC and watch one or two of the parades and see for yourself.

So, maybe it is not only we rotten ...western... peoples who are responsible for the current mess Canada is in and socialism is only a part of the problem?

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
The corporatist "conservatives", now in power under Harper, actually are just as much a part of this as any of the leftist-socialist parties and are increasing non-traditional immigration to cause even greater crowding of our medical system, educational institutions and so forth.

It was the traitor, Mulroney, who opened immigration to "family class" applicants and now we pay O.A.P. to elderly foreigners who have never paid dime one into Canada and who mock our traditions and encourage terrorists in our cities......come to BC and watch one or two of the parades and see for yourself.

So, maybe it is not only we rotten ...western... peoples who are responsible for the current mess Canada is in and socialism is only a part of the problem?

I believe the immigrants, for the most part, are not a drain on our budget or burden to society.
Our aboriginal population is growing tremendously and contribute nearly zero to the economy. I don't think I'd be far off if I claimed their unemployment rate was over 80%. Few of them have ever paid a dime in taxes. This is a present problem and it will get far worse.

Where we've always differed in opinion, is that you believe any foreign born Canadian citizen should be removed from Canada, wheras in reality we are all of foreign ancestry, yourself included. Most immigrants are industrious, from my observations, and generally hold positions or jobs that our own unemployed(or rather unemployable) population refuses to "stoop" to, such as 24 hour convenience store owners, cab drivers,custodians,etc.

I am however very much against multiculturalism and would much prefer a melting pot type of society. You come to Canada, you become a Canadian and live by our founding fathers standards, otherwise go back to where you came from.

In my honest opinion, life in general is going to get interesting within the next year. Perhaps a global crisis is needed to smarten everyone up.

I'm not Canadian, but that was a good post...

The basic reason we need immigration is because of the birtrh control pill believe it or not. We don't replace our own population and the baby boomers are a ticking time bomb. When they start hitting the hospitals for the last 10 years of their life it'll drive us to the brink.

So if the boomers had procreated at historic levels or if they would have realized that their population bubble was a problem and voted to increase their own tax levels to prepare for it things could be different.

I doubt Harper or any of the white politicans actually want to invite non-white minorities here but they haven't much choice. I just wish they would concentrate on immigrants of the same ilk as origionally came here. Such as European Christians simply because we can get along well enough with each other. The muslims and other Asians will start race wars soon enough.

Wow
Change the heading at the top & you'll find the same basic arguments in every second "developed' country.

one thing I've found in straddling the interface between business & government ( as one of business )is that those work IN Business ( not for)and those that work in & for Govt, is that they have typically different perspectives on what Govt is for and they gain a personal clarity from that perspective.
In my experience the genuine 'community' minded people who work IN business have a closer perspective to what the real situation is & what the real drivers of Govt policy are than those who work in & for Govt.
That might seem strange , but successful business requires understanding both sides of any issue.
whereas Govt requires understanding only one side an issue...........the one they want to implement ( for good or bad in a community context).............thats why they are in Govt.

Those that are in either side to get their nose in the trough , drink with the fox & hunt with the hounds.
ie
The mover of a motion for legislative change does it for 2 basic reasons
- they believe in its philosophy
- or they need to move it to gain support to achieve something else somewhere else.

Just because their name is on the record as moving a motion, does not mean they believed in its philosophy or started the "push". They just needed to push it at the time.

More truths are found in the foxes lair than running with the hounds or reading Hansard to see who moved what.

Canada has no birthright ownership of that situation .
There's an old saying :-
"20:20 vision is easy in hindsight."
but it does depend on what you are looking at and who is telling the story.............He He.

The really hard part is being prescient & achieving implementation.

Economic isolationism is no solution, no community nor nation has everything it needs to survive well in the longer term.
You can do well in the short term , but its an inevitable recipe to eventually whither on the vine.

Socialism is not socialist & community is not communism.
Nonetheless many are the 'placing of heads in the trough' that are couched in all 4 of those terms.
We have them all in Govt........covert & overt..............dealing with the damage they do is no easy task, whinging doesn't do it, positive action and achieving sufficient numbers in balance of power achieves it ..........maybe ONCE in every couple of decades.

Its a tough road for hunting & shooting .
Its emotive in the urban masses, despite all the skills in general life & thought processes that "hunting" ( in all its forms...terrestrial & marine) teaches an individual , guns unfortunately can & do kill people ...........its a personal judgement call on how a gun is used, gone are the days when you trusted your neighbour's judgement ( in general)...........the fact is the majority of urbanites don't trust someone else's judgement with a gun . They don't understand it, don't want to understand it & have the balance of power.

But we have to trust someone we have never met in our lives to pass within 2 feet of us at 100Kmh, in the opposite direction on the public highway.
He He.........try that rationale and see if any anti-gun lobbyists can see the other side of the coin.

Life is not even half funny sometimes.

Canada or anywhere else in the world.
Sadly.

quote:

Originally posted by sprayandpray:


I believe the immigrants, for the most part, are not a drain on our budget or burden to society.
Our aboriginal population is growing tremendously and contribute nearly zero to the economy. I don't think I'd be far off if I claimed their unemployment rate was over 80%. Few of them have ever paid a dime in taxes. This is a present problem and it will get far worse.

Where we've always differed in opinion, is that you believe any foreign born Canadian citizen should be removed from Canada, wheras in reality we are all of foreign ancestry, yourself included. Most immigrants are industrious, from my observations, and generally hold positions or jobs that our own unemployed(or rather unemployable) population refuses to "stoop" to, such as 24 hour convenience store owners, cab drivers,custodians,etc.

I am however very much against multiculturalism and would much prefer a melting pot type of society. You come to Canada, you become a Canadian and live by our founding fathers standards, otherwise go back to where you came from.

In my honest opinion, life in general is going to get interesting within the next year. Perhaps a global crisis is needed to smarten everyone up.

Amen! Same can be said for the USA.