The Winnipeg free press outlined major concerns regarding the loss of Moose populations in Manitoba.

Many years ago I attended a seminar with Manitoba's leading Moose biologist Vince Crichton. He had many pictures and stories of Moose and the places they had become common in Manitoba. I can't recall the numbers as this was aproximatly 8-10 years ago but it was alot.

The now retired biologist speaks out about the decline and almost destruction of the species as a whole here in MB.

HERE ARE THE NUMBERS GIVEN THAT HAVE PLUMITTED IN THE LAST TWO DECADES:

- Winnipegosis droped 90 percent from 2,480 in 92 to 149 as of this year!!!!


-Manigotagan droped 2,300 to 800


THE MOOSE BIOLOGIST ATTRIBUTES THE DROP IN POPUTATIONS DIRECTLY TO THE UNCONTROLLED HUNTING FROM METIS AND FIRST NATIONS ALIKE.

" THEY CAN'T POLICE CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED TREATY RIGHTS. THATS A FEDERAL ISSUE. AS A RESULT, NO PROVINCE WILL EVER HOLD REGULATORY CONTROL TO CURB METIS AND FIRST NATION GAME HUNTING"


Manitoba as a province is in great peril with the lack of control over all its hunters, rather a free for all that is not sustainable and an inevitable crash in our once strong wildlife populations.

I wish we could come together to set guidelines for all, a collective agreement between parties to ensure game for all.

Just a wish

Unfortunatly this is a growing trend. I think it was the Metis in AB that got in trouble a few years ago when they went hunting Bighorns by Hinton. Not really a historical basis for that type of hunting

Reading things like this makes my blood boil. How much game game would be left anywhere on the planet if we all acted like Indians or Metis. And I say Indian, which comes from the word indigenous, not some fancy name like first nation, which is somebody's grandeur idea of history.
Regrettably, we are stuck with problems like these for a long time. I don't know the answers to these dilemmas.
Hopefully we can come to a rational decision on these types of things.

Saskatchewan has the same issue, but I don't think to that extent. Two falls ago, a friend and I were cleaning ducks and geese on an old road after a morning's shoot. Two Manitoba trucks with a pair of first nations in each rolled up to us asking if we had saw any moose that morning. We said no, and chatted a bit about our bird hunt. As they drove past, I could smell moose on each vehicle. Too bad I had forgot about the bull I called into our decoys and the cow we had also saw, both of which were less than a mile away. This was also on the weekend before the proper season opened up.

Another instance I can remember happened a number of years ago. The local moose winter in certain areas (often depending on the type of crops available) and you can see two dozen in a couple square miles sometimes. A local farmer had nine bulls feeding in a certain field for a couple months. A local with first nations friends took them out and wiped out the entire group in the middle of winter without landowner permission. Most land only gets posted during firearms seasons.

There needs to be some sort of restrictions placed on the way they are allowed to hunt/poach.

Peter Andersen I could not agree more. I have seen dozens of similar things happen over the years in all four western provinces. It is not a new problem, however the addition of thousands of card carrying Metis to the mix has had a significant impact.

With federal court rulings in their favour we are going to see a huge increase in the amount of game being taken by individuals who do not have to purchase licences.

Sadly, I have watched dozens of people I know with a bit of native blood in their veins, rush in and acquire their Metis status. They openly gloat about their new found hunting freedom.

Where I live a normal everyday resident has to apply in a draw for an elk/moose licence and it may take a few years to draw. Metis have their own licensing system and when they request licences they are handed a moose tag, an elk tag and two deer tags.

On the surface this may look like they are self policing, as multiple licences are not being issued to an individual for the same species…………….. but in reality there are now many hundreds of extra people out taking moose with a 'licence' they do not pay for and there are many more people hunting for the animals that would not have been successful if they had to apply in the draw like everyone else.

The end result is that there are too many hunters. First nations cannot be controlled. Card carrying Metis numbers are increasing and they are not purchasing licences and do not have to participate in the draws. The only numbers that can be easily controlled are the rest of us who have to obey the game laws and take our chances in the draws.

The only way for the game department to protect moose numbers in given game management units then, is to completely close the season…… as that is the only way they have the power to enforce a hunting ban on first nations hunters.

If this continues and no way is found to address the mess, normal everyday hunters are going to see their ability to hunt slowly erode and eventually disappear. With the big ungulates this will be sooner than later.

Society has muted most people, because it is not PC to speak out against first nations or Metis and if you do you are immediately labeled a racist. However, if people do not grow a pair and raise their voices………….. well, the end is neigh. It will not be many years until ALL allowable harvest of many big game species is completely taken up by first nations and Metis.

This situation will also impact outfitters and non-resident hunters. In fact they will be the first to take it on the chin as current outfitter allocation agreements expire. Residents will demand that any spare allocation go to resident hunters and not outfitters as the noose tightens.

Skyline - your last paragraph is very true and was also mentioned by this biologist in the news article. He went on to say the revenue generated in Manitoba (491 million) basically is for the province to loose when non - resident hunters stop hunting in our province. This bothers me as the outfitters who depend on this revenue to survive becomes nonexistent and family after family is affected.

A real issue that needs to be addressed sooner than later and perhaps a good start would be from local SCI,DSC chapters banding together united in the fight to preserve wildlife numbers for our future generations?

Generations of all walks of life.

A partnership between all parties should be formed... not an easy task but nothing in life that is worth fighting for is ever easy!!

Once again just a thought...

Well there is an SCI Chapter based out of the Peg (SCI Manitoba). No DSC chapter up here. Historically DSC and SCI do not get along as DSC was formed by some disgruntled former SCI members. You have to enjoy playing politics if you want to get heavily involved and try to steer towards a particular purpose.

The native/Metis issue however, is going to be very difficult to proceed with as Manitoba has such a huge Metis population. So in addition to the SCI chapter you would also have to get the MWF onside. The MWF (under the former president) formed some sort of memorandum of agreement with the Metis Federation a couple of years ago.

I guess it sounds good on paper but I don't think anything really constructive has come out of it. Sounded like a bullshit feel good sort of a dealt me.

As for outfitters. Manitoba is one of the worst provinces with respect to the outfitters having any say in big game allocations. Outfitters do not own big game allocations in Manitoba as is the case in other provinces, they just have a big game hunting business. The big game allocations can be taken with no compensation because of that.

Moose is a BIG issue with first nations people in the province and I personally know lodges that have moose allocations who do no use them because the local first nations people get so hostile over it. The friction it causes is more than it is worth to run the hunts as they worry about having their lodges and equipment vandalized during the off season. Others who do run their hunts have had to agree to give half of the moose meat from moose killed by their clients to the local bands and/or hire local band members to guide the moose hunts. To do otherwise would be unwise.

All in all it is a very difficult situation and bringing about constructive change will take a dedicated crew who have nothing but time and money at their disposal. They will also have to be thick-skinned and have a family that is willing to put up with the fall out……… and brother there is potential for fall out.

I think they have all moved to the part of Alaska where I just booked a hunt for 2015. Seems to be no shortage at all there??

I will try and push some back your way guys. Good luck in working out all the problems going on out there.

Larry Sellers

I've an idea on controlling some numbers, but it's not very PC!!

Funny man you are Larry but I don't believe more moose will solve the problem.

Congratulations though on your upcoming moose hunt, not unlike Alaska good numbers still exist where one has to fly or travel far into the bush. My father and I were successful after many hours of hard hunting making it all the more memorable!!


As a side note Larry, gas and trophy fee/license was split between us both for a total cost of around 315CAD.

Cheers

Links to the original article and a opinion piece in response. Both deserve the time to be read. The issue of aboriginal Constitutional rights vs. wildlife management effects all Canadian's "Rights". This is a tough one to fix....

Where have all the moose gone?
http://www.winnipegfreepress.c...-gone-239835201.html

Uncontrolled hunting pushes moose to limit.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.c...limit-240434201.html

Very sorry to read of your problem fellas. I am peripherally aware of some of the issues regarding Native game take and population issues and know of an interesting and successful circumstance: In the Bethel AK area for quite some time there were few to no moose. The occasional straggler was usually immediately reduced to possession regardless season, sex, locale, etc,. As I understand it, more or less ten years ago the fish and game agencies started a huge pr/ education campaign to help the folks understand how one cow moose begets two, two four, four, eight,.......The point obviously being to let the herd grow to the point where there was an ample supply of moose for every Native that wants one, and by the way, lots of moose for everyone else too.

The campaign succeeded, the locals backed off on shooting every moose they came across, and now the moose herd out on the Yukon/ Kusko delta is very healthy. There's moose for all who want one and in some cases there are two moose tags available per hunter per year.

You can't hold me to any of the details 'cuz this is all based on my understanding or recollection and I might have some or all wrong.

Obviously the cow shooting was illegal the whole time, but until the public was educated about the why's and where's, I think they saw no reason to follow the white mans rules.

Scott: I have heard of such programs before. They have been are quite successful in certain areas. For the most part, the local first nations and metis are more than aware of herd dynamics. It is more about "we can do whatever we want" and "watch us do it". They aren't bound by the white man's rules and wouldn't abide by any lessons like that. Some of them are so lazy that they will only take meat from the side of the animal that is facing upwards.

There are some that do it as sustenance and are smart about their harvests but their good deeds are unraveled by the plethora of first nations and metis who don't give a damn.

I have to say that when it comes to Natives and Chiefs, it has been the Chiefs that have really dropped the ball on educating there community as a whole. Leadership comes from the top down and with the top comprising mostly of corruption well, there is little hope. I think many natives who hunt for meat are actually are good people and like all nations it only takes a few bad apples ....

The new hardship on our big game numbers will most certainly be the Metis and there numbers. A huge group of hunters once restricted to draws now having free access to the semi draw protected game!

I realize they are given tags from there federation but on what grounds are these tags issued?

AR Man…….. the supreme court ruling which affirmed that Metis have the same hunting and fishing rights as First Nations under the Constitution is federal in scope and the courts ordered all the provinces to accept it. The ruling quite clearly states that provincial and federal governments have no authority to impose limits, seasons, restrictions, etc, on First Nations and Metis hunting rights.

The only way that First Nations and Metis hunters and anglers will ever be subject to seasons and bag limits is if they voluntarily submit to self-imposed rules established by First Nations and Metis councils and federations.

The provincial government and the Manitoba Metis Federation entered into an agreement that resulted in the MMF creating the 'Metis Laws of the Harvest' and the issuance of Metis Harvester Cards to those who qualify as Metis under the Powley Test. First Nations of course have no such structure in place and in the end it will be interesting to see how long the Metis Harvester Card system lasts.

The rights to harvest for FN and Metis are rights afforded to the individual, not to those who belong to a group/band per sey. Undoubtedly at some point someone will contest having to abide by the Harvester Card system and the MMF will pull their harvester card…….. and the individual(s) will challenge it and it will end up in court. I am positive that the courts will decide that the MMF does not have the right to impose the licensing restrictions on individuals.

Rest assured when that happens the harvester card system the MMF and provincial government agreed to will be tossed and it will be back to square one with no self-imposed system for the Metis. While the current harvester card system is better than nothing, it is still very generous with the number of licences handed out. Too generous considering the overall picture with large ungulates like moose and elk.

In the end, I can see moose hunting being closed in many areas completely to protect what is left while the FN and Metis try to come to grips with the responsibility of having these rights and an increasing population of the 'entitled'.

It may very well take a complete train wreck before everyone involved can get their shit together and come up with a system that all agree on, which conserves the resource, yet offers hunting opportunity to both constitutional rights-based and licensed hunters.

Sadly I can see that the days are numbered for licensed moose hunters in many jurisdiction, as the federal court decision negates previous provincial court decisions denying harvest rights to Metis……. such as took place in Alberta a few years ago.

Pandoras box has been opened.

I notice the same sort of effect in northern BC. If an area is within snowmobile distance of a reserve, there will be little game. Likewise, if the river is navigable by river boat and within range of a reserve, there will be little game within view of the river. Education is probably the best chance to improve things but it is like trying to instruct a brick.

easy answer in Idaho, those lovely Lobo wolfpacks you so graciously sent us some years back...

I have never been a road hunter and the idea really bugs me even though this is how a large population of hunters hunt or perhaps more accurately said shoot there animals.

Most of the moose that are easily accessed are shot out quickly and the areas that remain remote and without roads hold healthy numbers.

It seems likely that as Larry said expensive guided hunts will become the norm rather than the exception and out of reach for the commoners who were once able to hunt resident numbers locally threw draws.

I too feel badly for the game loss many of you hunters in midwest/western Canada are experiencing. Here's hoping some regs. get put in the place that are more fair overall. As to the ? re: where are the moose, there sure are a lot in Newfoundland! They don't have the genetics of their Yukon cousins re: size, but they are both plentiful & tasty!

This is exactly what stopped the barren-ground caribou hunts in the NWT. The wagon-burners were, and still are, taking 20-25% of the cows annually. So, because of federal laws, they're now the only ones approved for caribou hunting. The government itself said the resident hunters and non-residents via outfitters played no part in the herd reductions as they were only taking a small number of bulls!
And now our Metis are crying for the same rights!!

We have a similar problem in Labrador. There is actually a small population of woodland caribou resident to Labrador. The herd is small and considered endangered by our Wildlife Dept. They're totally separate from the much more populous barren ground caribou like the George River herd.

Despite the fact that hunting of these woodland caribou is prohibited in the interests of conservation and preservation, natives from Quebec have crossed the Quebec-Labrador border on numerous occasions over the past several years and slaughtered hundreds just to exercise their "rights" and to express their disdain for white man's laws and borders. Unfortunately, neither the Quebec or Newfoundland governments had/have the balls to prosecute these asshats for such outrageous behavior and disrespect for wildlife.

Hellerwithagun, I am aware of your exact situation and in my opinion this is yet another example of wildlife abuse that officers have likely chosen to look the other way on.

Pathetic and discouraging for us hunters who wish to enjoy a sustainable resource among unsustainable hunters!

I am at a loss as to what can be done but certainly feel for you and your situation!!

Thanks for your contribution.

There's a domino effect here: Many former legit hunters are now saying, "Why bother with the law, it's unfair and only pleases the politicians, so I'm gonna take my chances anyway and get my fair share. They don't have the number of officers anyway, who can be everywhere and they only enforce laws where they can and want to, to please their masters and satisfy their own egos."

Let it be a free-for-all! Then, someone will begin to pay attention, including the Metis! Education? I won't be around to see it! Neither will you.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

AR Man……. Saskatchewan first nations types routinely come into Manitoba and kill moose and elk in and around RMNP and the Ducks. No one does anything about it.

In truth there is little the CO's can do. They pretty much have given up as they can put in a bunch of leg work and in the end Crown Counsel just tosses it. They know they won't get a conviction. Prosecutors and judges have no balls and are political animals. Period. Buck the system and you can't climb the ladder. Stay in line like good little boys and do not rock the First Nations/Metis craddle.