Hey Fellas. I figured this might be the best place to come for advice. Here's the situation:

I'm looking for a hammerless handgun in either 9mm or 40 cal that is double action on the first shot. I don't want to spend more than $600, and I would prefer to buy new, although I'm not opposed to purchasing a well-maintained used gun. Glock is OUT of the running. This is for home defense and does not really need to serve any other purpose other than maybe an outing to the range every now and then for some plinking.

Any advice? Thanks y'all!

sig

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
sig

I could be wrong but I think all the SIG models have hammers. A Springfield XDM might be a good choice for a hammerless but since I like hammers I don't own one.

quote:

Originally posted by fusino:
I'm looking for a hammerless handgun in either 9mm or 40 cal that is double action on the first shot.

I am far from an expert on handguns, but, wouldn't the lack of an external hammer prevent any handgun from being double action on the first shot? The action is what cocks the hammer on a hammerless, so, I would assume that there would be no way to let the hammer down on a gun that was hammerless.

Am I wrong?

Why is Glock out of the running? Is it because there is no safety other than the trigger safety?

I assume you want the first shot to be double action for safety purposes?

S&W M&P's are really great guns, and much more ergonomic than Glocks.

45 compact model is fantastic

Hammerless pistols are sometimes referred to as "striker fired". I'll probably be corrected for this but my take on a double action striker fired pistol, versus a single action action striker fired pistol, is that with every pull of the trigger the striker will be cocked and fired on a DA, even on an empty gun. With a single action striker fired pistol the slide has to be actuated either manually or by recoil to cock the striker (such as on a Glock).

The Taurus PT 24/7 is a double action striker fired pistol, as is the Springfield XDM, but I have never shot one, and I'm sure they are not the only pistols with that type of action.

Wink, I see, that makes sense.

But isn't the Glock sort of in that catagory? I thought the firing pin on a Glock was partially cocked with the slide and the initial part of the trigger pull finished the cocking and released the pin. Or is it my fault for believeing what I see on youtube?

Youtube Video of Glock action

Not trying to start a fight, but why hamerless?

Wendell, in Glock and other preloaded strikers once you pull the triker the striker travels forward and hits the primer. If you get a FTF then you have to cycle the action and clear the round. On a double action the trigger pull loads and fires. This gives a theoretical second strike capability. I've only had primer failures in Russian made 7.62x39 (Berdan)so I'm not sure it's a valid theory.

Hammerless because I will likely carry it concealed from time to time. Thanks for the suggestions so far. I'm really leaning towards the SIG P2 series...

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Wink, I see, that makes sense.

But isn't the Glock sort of in that catagory? I thought the firing pin on a Glock was partially cocked with the slide and the initial part of the trigger pull finished the cocking and released the pin. Or is it my fault for believeing what I see on youtube?


Youtube Video of Glock action

No, the slide has to be worked for each strike on a Glock. On a DA you can pull the trigger all you want and it will strike, whether the slide has been worked or not.

When I carried a double single action auto at work rugers and as a armorer for the dept. I found that once in a great while the 2nd strike did come in handy.

I figured more from not geting the round chambered properly or from the shooter limp wristing it then from bad primers. The first time the hammer would drive the slide far enough forward to lock the pistol completely up and the 2nd strike would fire it.

Being a old double action revolver guy I always kind of liked the idea. But then the argument can be made if one has a bad round one should be doing a clearing drill in stead of trying to fire it again. I carry a glock lots now and it does not bother me not haveing the 2nd strike.

I recently bought a Ruger SR9 and really like the feel of it, decent shooter too and the price is right. also have a Springfield XD45 that I really like.

walther P99 its good enough for James Bond!

I like my 226 over my 92. Their website shows the 226 DAK. It looks like a shaved hammer. I kinda ran the first few posts together and thought you were looking for a striker fired over hammer.

Guys, thanks for the help. I ended up going with the Sig P226 in .40 S&W. Pretty excited about it! I'll come back and report on how I like it.

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Wink, I see, that makes sense.

But isn't the Glock sort of in that catagory? I thought the firing pin on a Glock was partially cocked with the slide and the initial part of the trigger pull finished the cocking and released the pin. Or is it my fault for believeing what I see on youtube?


Youtube Video of Glock action

No, the slide has to be worked for each strike on a Glock. On a DA you can pull the trigger all you want and it will strike, whether the slide has been worked or not.

Nope, Wendell is right (I have not seen the youtube video, though). The Glock (and others of that ilk are "half-cocked" normally. If you pull the trigger on a dud round, you cannot get a second strike on the dud primer unless you partially cycle the slide. Fully cycling it will eject the cartridge. Pulling the trigger on the gun if the striker/hammer is fully down results in nothing.

They call it the "Safe Action". Not fully cocked, but not all the way down either.

I have other comments, so read on my next post.

Lost Sheep

quote:

Originally posted by fusino:
Hey Fellas. I figured this might be the best place to come for advice. Here's the situation:

I'm looking for a hammerless handgun in either 9mm or 40 cal that is double action on the first shot. I don't want to spend more than $600, and I would prefer to buy new, although I'm not opposed to purchasing a well-maintained used gun. Glock is OUT of the running. This is for home defense and does not really need to serve any other purpose other than maybe an outing to the range every now and then for some plinking.

Any advice? Thanks y'all!

There are so many different guns and designs that it would be mearly impossible to name all the different action types.

Just for giggles and grins, check out the action on the H & K "Squeeze Cocker" I think it is the P7 model.

There are some models with a hammer completely enclosed and some that have a striker rather than a hammer.

For another interesting variant, check out the Taurus Millenium series. It has a striker, completely enclosed, and mine is cocked by the slide cycling for S/A shooting. But if the hammer is dropped on a dud round, a second pull of the trigger cycles the striker for a second try on the same cartrdge. But here's the interesting part. If you pull the slide back just a little and pull the trigger, then let the slide move forward, the striker follows the slide without setting off the cartridge. Now you have a double action first shot. This is not documented in any manual or literature I have found.

Then how about the Colt 2000? Anybody rememter that one? Double action on every shot, striker fired. But the action was recoil operated rotating bolt (with locking lugs very similar to a gas operated semi-auto, but with a cam slot instead) DIscontinued and only offered in 9mm. If they had it in 45ACP I would have bought one.

Have fun.

quote:

Originally posted by fusino:
Guys, thanks for the help. I ended up going with the Sig P226 in .40 S&W. Pretty excited about it! I'll come back and report on how I like it.

Great pistol, but not hammerless. For CCW, I would look at the P228/P229 series instead. Even the P239, if yo udon;t mind fewer rounds.

Well I decided hammerless wasn't really for me after all, so the P226 will work just fine. It's a full size, so I'm excited about that.