OK here is a target shot at 25 yards using my SIG 220 from an MTM Pistol rest:



Good group but low. I use a 6 o'clock hold but with this not being a target gun I would probably rather have the POA and POI being the same. This means moving the group up 4 inches! What are my options? Can I get alternate front sights? Put them on myself? Send it back to Sig?
Thanks, Peter.
PS. The gun groups low with all my handloads, even 200 grain LSWC.

nugman, thanks very much for the info. I did have to drift the rear sight on mine (it was shooting left), but fortunately there was a guy at the range that had a Sig tool to do that. I am not going to fiddle more with a half inch move at 25 yards!
I will follow up with top gun supply.
Peter.

Thanks! Mine is a P220ST as well. I checked last night. I have a #6 front sight and a #8 rear sight. I guess based on the last link (sig forum) I should go up to a #10 rear sight?
I will call or email top gun supply later today hopefully.
Peter.

Top Gun is a good outfit. If you are going to shoot the pistol offhand, try a few groups at 15-25y to see where it shoots. Most pistols tend to shoot high off a rest. Sig front sights can be hard to move, a sight tool really helps.
C.G.B.

Unless it is a bullseye gun POA and POI should coincide. Your point of aim on a 6 O'clock hold is the bottom of the bull. Your group is a half inch to the right and an inch low. At 50 yards it's probably perfect elevation and an inch right. Drift the rear sight and you're good. If you want to make it a bullseye gun than put an adjustable rear sight on it.

Dave, I think the advice to shoot several groups offhand is good advice.

It sounds like someone may have changed the front sight. Both of my SIGs have the factory SIG Lite Sights and front and rear on both are 8/8. Did you buy the pistol used?

I would say send it to SIG after you have determined exactly how far you want POI to be raised at 25yds. And while you're at it, I'd recommend going to the SIG Lite tritium sights.

Well I have already ordered a #10 rear sight so I will see how that works first. I had already adjusted the rear sight (borrowing someone else's tool). What options for fully adjustable sights are there?
I did buy the gun used and I sincerely doubt that the previous owner changed the sights at all! It is impossible to adjust the rear sight without the Sig tool, and that is not cheap!
I will try the gun as it is at 50 yards and see what happens.
I have shot the gun offhand, and it shoots to the same POI. I was trying new handloads and always evaluate them from a rest.
Thanks for all the suggestions, Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
I did buy the gun used and I sincerely doubt that the previous owner changed the sights at all! It is impossible to adjust the rear sight without the Sig tool, and that is not cheap!

Pete, I think it was the FRONT SIGHT that the previous owner might have changed (from a #8 to the #6).

But I think you'll be ok with the #10 rear.

If it's shooting too high after the change, you can judiciously file down the front sight.

I'm sorry to hear you didn't go with the SIGLITES. Things "that go bump in the night" do it when it's very dark!

Isn't the front sight more difficult to change?
Peter

Front is harder to change because it is fairly fragile. Filing front will raise groups. The sights are stamped. I believe higher numbers raise groups, ie bigger no. on rear is taller, bigger number on front is shorter.
C.G.B.

If you were using a 6:00 hold on the bottom of the black, you are only 1" low. I would call that good @ 25yds. If you were holding dead center, or 6:00 on the white, you are indeed 3"-4" low. A taller front sight would be the easiest fix.

Fred, you are correct except that all my other guns have a POI 4" above POA, like it should be! So, I do need to do something with the sights, either come up 4 inches with a 6 o'clock hold (I am hoping that a #10 rear sight will do this) or come up 1 inch (hoping that a #5 front sight will do this) and use a 9/3 o'clock hold. I think that changing the rear sight might be easier than changing the front sight so I am going to try that first.
Peter.

Peter,
You need a taller rear sight or a shorter front sight to do what you want to do. Adjust the rear sight in the direction you want your group to go and the front sight the opposite. Shooting 3-4 inches higher than POA at 25 yards should be about on at 50.
Best,
jpj3

Yup, jpj! The #10 rear sight is higher, and the #5 rear sight is lower. I will try the rear first as it should be easier to change.
Peter.

Well, I went to top gun supply and they listed the #10 rear sight (for $34) but were out of stock. CDNN had a special on Sig Sauer sights, with the Sig #10 rear sight for $2.99! They also had a #5 front sight for the same price. I received them today!
Peter.

Interested in how things work out with your new sights.
Best,
jpj3

I will keep you posted but it may take a while. I have to locate a Sig sight adjustment tool first!
Peter.

Thanks.
jpj3

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Fred, you are correct except that all my other guns have a POI 4" above POA, like it should be! So, I do need to do something with the sights, either come up 4 inches with a 6 o'clock hold (I am hoping that a #10 rear sight will do this) or come up 1 inch (hoping that a #5 front sight will do this) and use a 9/3 o'clock hold. I think that changing the rear sight might be easier than changing the front sight so I am going to try that first.
Peter.

I'm not sure what you mean, "4" high as it should be". All my handguns shoot POA/POI @ 25yds or close enough (within 1"). If you were holding 6:00 in the black @ 25yds, you are good to go IMO. At 1" low, you are pretty much POA/POI. At 4" high you are, well 4" high, not POA/POI. I want my guns to hit where I aim, within 1" of POA, not 4" high? That would put me on somewhere around 75yds! Tough to make a headshot @ 15yds if you have to guess where to hold.

Fred, as I mentioned, I shoot a 6 o'clock hold.
Peter.

OK here we go! I had a local gunsmith (working out of a gunshop) change the rear sight for me. I had put a couple of pencil witness marks to show where the existing rear sight was. I took the gun to the range today:



Not a good group but shows POI at 25 yards. A little high. So then I put up a target at 50 yards:



Again, not a bullseye gun group but POI is right on as far as I am concerned. So, for $2.99 (he replaced it at no charge!) I am pretty satisfied.
Peter.

Thanks for the followup. I would personally want to split the difference between your before and after targets to group zero to two inches POI over POA at 25 yards but prefer a little high to a little low. Congrats on fixing the problem!

Best,
jpj3

jpj, I tend to agree with you. In retrospect I perhaps should have tried the front sight replacement first (should have given me 2" up) instead of going with the 4" up option. I will start looking for a 'used" SIG rear sight tool and will then experiment some more. In the mean time I am certainly happy with the 50 yard POI! I don't know whether I mentioned it or not, but the sights on the gun were Tritium night sights, so the rear sight had the two dots on it. The replacement sight I bought for $2.99 was not the Tritium but some other more basic sight that had a single (vertical) white line below the "gap" in the rear sight (kinda pointing to the front sight).
Peter.

In my Sig 229 different bullets group at different heigths...ie 155's vs 165's vs 180's. That may make enough difference to not replace the sight again.
Best,
jpj3

Agreed. the above targets were shot with the 230Gr. JHPs. I have some 200gr. LSWs at various velocities that I will try. Good idea. The JHP was my "social load". The LSWs are various target loads.
Peter.