I just got my michigan ccw permit and was looking for a accurate pistol for around 400.00 or less. I already have a hi-point 9mm compact and it doesen't fit the bill. wheel or semi auto's are fine 380 through 44 mag are preferred any suggestions are welcome.

400.00 or less i carry a bersa .380, copy of the the walther in the same caliber. i can't think of a great deal of weapons you can get your hands on for under 400.00, bersa, taurus, and hi-point are about the only "cheap" brands i can think of, besides maybe an old Star 9 if you can find one.

hard to beat a S&W j frame for CCW for absolute reliability

Take a look at the Kel Tecs in .380 and 9mm.

I have a P11. It is very light and easy to carry. It shoots just fine inside 15 yds and the 9mm is a lot better defense round with the right ammo than the .380...IMHO.

I agree with hikerbum,S&W J-frame.I own all kinds of handguns and I really like semi-autos but if I'm carrying it for a CCW I'm going to carry my S&W 340PD in 357.The majority of self defense shootings are under 15 feet.$400 doesn't give you many choices or options.Good luck to you.

Ruger Sp101 in .357mag, used Glock 19, there are many ways to go here.

A Ruger P-95 9mm should still set you back less than $400. For a little more you can go .45 ACP with a P-345 that in my oppinion is worth much more than $400, but I own one and carry it!

I have an S&W J-Frame airweight with a bobbed hammer that I really like. But I prefer my Kahr PM9. Easily concealed, easy to carry, accurate and reliable.

+1 for the Bersa

FWIW, I'd save a few extra bucks and get a Springfield XD. They run from 450-500 dollars here. I have a XD45 Service and XD45 Tactical. They are an excellent pistols at any price. I use the XD45 Service for HD and carry.

ZM

No argument about the Springfields, but the only gun worth carrying is one you will carry.
In Arizona it gets a bit warm in the summer and that little Kahr slips into the pocket of a pair of shorts with ease.

Go with a nice used revolver........Pull the trigger and it goes bang every time

Glock 36....pull the trigger and it goes bang every time.

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
Glock 36....pull the trigger and it goes bang every time.

Yep!! I love my Glock. For that price range you can't go wrong with a used one. If you haven't handled one, take a look before you buy. They break down for cleaning in 5 seconds, never fail and have a decent trigger pull (5.5 lb) You can also buy almost any accessory ever made to fit the Glocks. Kahrs are damn good guns but cost more.
As far as the econo brands, some of my friends have kel-teks and like them.....but
I would spend my hard earned money on a better brand gun, even if I had to buy it used.
Just my 2cents

ok so i did things different - my most accurate ccw is a pair of star firestars one in 9mm and one in 40 both have been tricked out a bit with trigger jobs grips and sights, but even with that their are both under 400. both will hold very tightly

As stupid as this may sound, any gun you actually carry for protection should not have a tricked out anything. The right lawyer can take a situation in which someone defended themself and turn it into "he was looking for trouble with his tricked out gun" Remember most juries don't understand why you want to lighten the trigger pull. Total BS but a reality.

The compact S&W M&P looks very good. The full size seems to have been getting very good reviews.
http://mp-pistol.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=170

If I was to carry it would be the Colt Mark V Lawman 2.6 inch.

quote:

Originally posted by RobinB:
The compact S&W M&P looks very good. The full size seems to have been getting very good reviews.
http://mp-pistol.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=170

thanks for the link! Good looking gun.

quote:

As stupid as this may sound, any gun you actually carry for protection should not have a tricked out anything. The right lawyer can take a situation in which someone defended themself and turn it into "he was looking for trouble with his tricked out gun" Remember most juries don't understand why you want to lighten the trigger pull. Total BS but a reality.

The circumstances leading up to the use of deadly force will determine whether or not you are exonerated. A clean shoot is a clean shoot. It will not matter whether you used subsonic loads from a 22 LR, full power ammo from a 500 S&W, or reloaded ammo from a tuned IPSC race gun with a 3 lb trigger. Likewise, if you are out looking for trouble and shoot someone when you could have retreated, it won't matter that you used a stock S&W 36 with 10 lb trigger. If you're concerned with hypothetical legal ramifications, just leave your gun at home and you won't have to worry about being sued.

This falls into the same category as CCW with reloaded ammunition. If there are any legal cases to back up the fears, I haven't heard of them.

All of the guns mentioned here for CCW are fine if they work for you. There are 3 different handguns that I carry concealed depending on time of year (hot or cold) and what I am wearing. My first choice is a Kimber Compact Aluminum in 45, second is a S&W airweight in 38 Spl, third is Keltec in 380. The Kimber will cost you quite a bit more than $400, but the other 2 would fit in your budget.

quote:

This falls into the same category as CCW with reloaded ammunition. If there are any legal cases to back up the fears, I haven't heard of them.

tricky area.

I read Massad Ayoob's columns (Self-Defense and the Law) Combat Handguns Magazine - discusses CC issues facing Civs and LE as well as possible legal ramifications.

One column discussed case where 'handloads' were contributing factor in a homicide/suicide and how some states prosecutors used such angle.

As far as a carry-gun, I think "reliable" and lots of practice.

I know a few that carry compact and sub-compact guns but don't put the hours in.

Good luck.

quote:

I read Massad Ayoob's columns (Self-Defense and the Law) Combat Handguns Magazine - discusses CC issues facing Civs and LE as well as possible legal ramifications.

I read the columns of Mas myself, and while I don't subscribe to all of his opinions and conclusions, the scenarios described are good food for thought. I also read the columns in question where handloads were used, and I don't necessarily believe the outcomes would have been different if the ammo had been factory. He has likewise published many columns where individuals who used factory ammo and were wrongly accused (and some convicted) of homicide. You can do everything right and still be charged or sued.

quote:

As far as a carry-gun, I think "reliable" and lots of practice.

We're in complete agreement here. Whether you carry factory or homemade, you better shoot it enough to know it works 100% in your weapon.

Best carry pistol I've found is the Kahr MKII. 9mm and small. Smaller than a Glock 26/27 -- which I find bulky/klunky.

The Kahr is not inexpensive.

My other carry is a S&W Mod. 60, bobbed hammer. Five shot .357 mag. Slightly larger than the Kahr, it's a "second" choice and sometimes it just "works" better as a carry gun.

NAA Guardian. Very small, compact. 6+1 capacity. Mine is 32 ACP, but they're making one slightly larger in .380 ACP. I joke about the 32 ACP -- "It's the gun I carry when I'm not armed." I wouldn't rely on it for any sort of "serious" defense," but then I don't get into "serious defense" situations.

I had the Kel-Tec P-32. It's 32 ACP, one more round than the NAA Guardian, lighter, and breech lock rather than blow-back like the Guardian. But I just couldn't warm up to it. It feels like a water pisol.

I looked at American Derringer -- in all sorts of calibers. They're two shot and about the same size as the Kahr MKII or J Frame Smith when it comes right down to it.

I see people carrying the NAA revolvers, in 22 mag, down to 22 short. These are tiny guns, and easy to slip into a pocket or purse. But they're only slightly more lethal than busting a bottle over someone's head and then threatening to cut them up with the broken end. (And I just don't get into this sort of scenario.)

There's the compact Jericho 9mm IMI Uzi. Nice gun, but just only slightly smaller than a full size carry 9mm. 10 rd mag standard, but it will hold a high capacity in 15 or 17 rds. (Not sure which.)

Makarov was going for slightly more than $100 a few years back. These days I see them for $175. It's 9mm Makarov, which is sometimes difficult to find. They can be rechambered (new bbl) in 380 ACP. But then it's a full sized gun in a "compact" caliber. The 9mm Mak is slightly more energy than the 380 ACP, but it's not near the 9mm even though it's "in the middle" between these two.

I had a Para-Ord compact. Small, FAT 45 ACP in 1911 config. Mags were expensive years ago, like $50. Small, it worked as a carry gun, but was FAT. You needed to be "serious" about carrying a CCW. I'm not that serious.

Traded the Para-Ord for a SubCompact Springfield 1911. 45 ACP, night sights. It's a "full size" gun even though it's billed as a "compact." Pretty much the size of a Makarov or the Compact Uzi. These are the sorts of handguns you carry on the belt, under clothes when you're "on duty." I don't see them as being good guns for concealed carry.

That said, "open carry" is legal in Oregon -- with the exception of towns which have ordinances against it. (Most towns) I like the Smith & Wesson 629, 4" bbl. 44 magnum. On the belt, in a holster, with a sweatshirt over it. "Concealed" in Oregon "on the belt" is legal if the gun is covered. Doesn't matter if it's obvious you have a gun under the shirt -- so long as it's "on the belt."

Concealed carry gun is always a compromise between caliber/capacity and size. Smaller you go the less capacity/caliber. Bigger is bigger and harder to conceal.

Having searched the full range, I like the Kahr MKII -- 6 rds +1 9mm double action, no "knobs" good balance, trigger, nice size.

You won't carry it if it isn't light enough and concealable enough that it won't "pull" on your clothes. You live in a cold climate, where for a goodly portion of the year, people wear fairly heavy dress. You need a pistol that will penetrate and is light in weight.

Personally, after messing with various autoloaders (1911's, Glocks, Taurus' and HiPowers), I carry a S&W Airweight Centenial in 38Spec in my pocket. It will handle +P's and that is what I carry in it. My car gun is a Colt Detective Special with bobbed hammer in 38 Spec which also handles +Ps. (If I lived where you do, it would be the 357 version of these revovlers.) If you can find an old S&W Model 36, they are also very handy. I have one with a three inch barrel that is my belt gun when I am hunting. First two are snake loads, the rest +Ps, which like all the others is 158gr.

In the summer, when it's shorts and T-shirts, I have a little Beretta Tomcat that I carry. It is a nice piece. I carry Speer Gold Dots in it. The pistols I mentioned above have never stuttered with the loads I use.

I think from handling them, that the Keltec would be a nice piece; however, I cannot speak to their reliability.

I wouldn't get hung up about legal issues of add-ons and high potency loads. An old judge I worked with once told me he'd rather be judged by 12 men than carried by six! Survive first, then worry about the rest of it. Kudude