Sig P-226 SCT



Glock 17, and Glock 19



Sig P-226 SCT, Glock 17, and Glock 19



Sig P-226 SCT with 4, 20 round magazines.

Being a dyed in the wool .45 ACP shooter for over 3 decades now, I've been debating on a 9MM purchase for some time. Yesterday I went shopping, and after much discussion I was no closer to making up my mind then when I walked through the door. So I bought all 3.

I've never purchased 4 guns in one day before, (I also bought another AK-47), but with the political climate changing for the worse, and interest on annuity investments paying squat, I decided there were worse things in life to spend money on than quality, high capacity, semi auto firearms.

I really like the Sig P-226. It fits in your hand like your feet fit into fleece lined slippers. The SCT model of the P-226 ships with 4, 20 round factory Sig magazines. It has the Nitron finish, and Sig Night Sights as well. Both the Glock 17 and the 19 are standard daylight fixed sights. I was going to go with a 17 and a 26, but after handling the 19 the choice was obvious. The 19 fit my hands much better. Because I bought all 3 from a shop that I frequent quite often I got a smoking deal on all 3 of them.

As soon as I returned home I promptly ordered another 4 magazines for each gun from Midway, along with 4, 33 round 9MM Glock mags. Amazingly they had all of them in stock. Now all I need is some 9MM ammo. Every gun shop, as well as Cabela's and Sportsman's Warehouse is picked clean. Not a round to be had, with no telling when there will be. We've got a big Crossroads Gun Show coming next week, so I'll get up early and get in line with the rest of the cattle and try and pick up a few thousand rounds there. I doubt there will be any bargains, but at this point I just want ammo without wearing out a set of tires to find it. Hopefully then in a few weeks I'll be able to light these babies up! Bill T.

Should be a good investment. All of the above are popular guns. Extra, high capacity mags are a good idea. Think I will pick up a few extra while they are still available.

Just bought my first "9" last fall (Glock 19). I picked up a 17 round mag at the last show, and a "collar" that fits over the mag at the bottom. When inserted into the 19, it makes the grip the same size as the G17. I use the 17 round for the night stand and the 15 round for cc.

Ammo supply in this area is tight, but some is available. You might try AmmoMan @ http://www.ammoman.com

I looks like more people are reloading. Last fall I could find plenty of brass at my local range. Now the ground is bare most of the time.

I got some of those sleeves coming for my glock 30. It allows you to use a 13 round Glock 21 magazine and takes up the space so it makes it part of the grip. I ordered a set of dies and a shell holder with the extra mags. Bill T.

http://glockstore.com/pgroup_d...p%3B%2BExtensions%2F

Yep they are all fine guns. But they make damm poor clubs. One needs ammo for them.

I've shot tens of thousands of rounds of 9mm with the best Jhp ammo they well hold there own when it comes to defenseive shootings.

I've got a few boxes of the high priced stuff. What I need are a few thousand rounds of ball. Like trying to find tits on a bull. Bill T.

The Sigs have a life span of @ 15,000 to 20,000 rounds.

The Glocks will go 60,000 plus.

Yeah but neither one is good for tacking up wanted posters with those damn rubber mag base pads! Bill T.

I was down visiting friends in El Salvador several months ago. Got invited to run the pistol club's urban survival course. They handed me a Betetta Brigadier and three mags. I ran the course twice, and it's taught by guys who occasionally have the occasion to shoot people, El Sal being what it is.

As a former Browning Hi Power shooter, (wore one completely out and carried it for years), I really liked this Beretta. Great on rapid fire point shooting. If I were planning on buying a nine, it would be the Beretta Brigadier. I don't like the Glock's grip angle, and I already own a Sig in 357 Sig, which is a souped up nine.

Have been a 9mm shooter for years. Have used SIGs, CZ75s, HKs, Colts, and S&Ws ... never warmed up to the Glock.

One day several of us put every 9mm we could find on a table and then got to shoot them all. The full sized Beretta had the worst recoil characteristics of them all. Too much weight in the slide and too high. Muzzle movement was significant.

Of the reasonably priced guns we liked the CZ75 variants the best (but then we're primarily 1911 shooters).

The best of all the pistols on the table was the P7M8 and P7M13s. They have a very different manual of arms and are expensive ... but they shoot very well and are small and flat. Very good for carry.

The most controllable but also expensive and a bit large was a 1911-based custom that shot like a dream.

quote:

One day several of us put every 9mm we could find on a table and then got to shoot them all. The full sized Beretta had the worst recoil characteristics of them all. Too much weight in the slide and too high. Muzzle movement was significant.

That's contrary to my experience. I've shot nine mm Glocks, Sigs, Smiths and the aforementioned Browning(s). That Beretta balanced well and was extremely accurate. Took down a pop up at a range too far to mention. Pointed extremely well. Accuracy was remarkable.

I would take a Belgian Browning over any of them. John Moses's best design, and ergonomically perfect.

Sorry you disagree.

Note that I mentioned recoil characteristics, not balance or single round accuracy. That's just the beginning of any pistol analysis.

Only have a half million or so rounds of IPSC and plate practice to draw upon. Could be mistaken ... but I don't think so.

Mike

I find you observations very interesting.

And I agree with them...

Especially about the H&K P7's and the 1911 9mm.

Also I think you comments on the Berreta, apply to the SIGS and the S&W 39 and 59's as well.

However I find the Glocks to be most excellent [for a Hi Cap 9mm].

I am a "1911 Person". I used them as work guns for several years.

So at first I did not like the concept of the Tupperware 9.

However after I shot one I realized it was almost perfect, for a new world Hi Cap 9.

I was "forced" to carry a 9mm for several years, I chose the Glock 17 and have shot them SEVERAL hundred thousand rounds. I have worn a few of them plumb out, with very few malfunctions.

I think the best 9mm's out there are, the Glock, the High Power and the H&K P7.

However for a 1911 45ACP shooter, that just has to have a Nine, then a Custom 1911 9mm is the best choice.

jetdrvr

Sad thing is almost NO Law Enforcement Agencies will allow there people to carry a cocked and locked semiauto.

When it is all said and done it is hard to beat a 9mm Glock out of the box. IF you HAVE TO carry a 9mm.




At first I did not like the Glock

billt

After you shoot several hundred rounds through you new 9mm's I will be curious to see which you like the best.

Since I posted the pics, I've added a Mini Glock 26 to the group. I have the Glock 30 in .45 ACP, so the 9 MM was a must have as well. I'm going to have to order a few of the magazine extention sleeves for it so the 15 and 17 round mags will fit and offer an extended grip surface. Bill T.

http://glockstore.com/pgroup_d...p%3B%2BExtensions%2F

billt

While you are "magazine hunting" try to get a few of the 33 round Glock 9mm Magazines.

They can be fun.

Also SIG has some 20 round magazines as well.

I already bought 4, 33 rounders from Midway. And 4, 20 round Sig Factory mags. The price was good, and they were in stock so I didn't wait. Bill T.

quote:

Originally posted by billt:
I already bought 4, 33 rounders from Midway. And 4, 20 round Sig Factory mags. The price was good, and they were in stock so I didn't wait. Bill T.

Well Done.

Friend of mine thinks 9mm is "worthless" -- Then I had him shoot the Uzi Mod. 45 Machine Pistol.

Speakin' of high capacity magazines.

Not fast on the point, and hard to conceal, but it do be putting the projectiles downrange.

quote:

Originally posted by Wm.S.Ladd:
Friend of mine thinks 9mm is "worthless" --

I had that attitude for many years myself. Back then I bought into all the .45 "knockdown power" hype. Granted some of it was true, but today with the many excellent expanding bullets available in personal defense ammunition. the 9 MM is right up there in performance with the .45 ACP. Bill T.

Top Gun Supply has a good deal on the Sig P226R
with 4 20 round SCT mags

http://www.topgunsupply.com/

That's a good price if they have any in stock. Bill T.

For what it is worth I have or have had several 9mm including a couple HK P7M8s. I still have one of the P7M8s, but the nicest 9mm I have by far is a Smith and Wesson Custom Shop 952-1.

To put it mildly that is a rather accurate 9mm. Nothing else I have or had can touch it for accuracy. The muzzle barrel bushing just flat out works, and the machining is in a word...perfect.

If I'm not mistaken S&W uses the same barrel / bushing set up they do on the Model 52 .38 Special wadcutter semi auto target pistol. That gun is one of the most accurate semi auto target pistols ever produced. Bill T.

I have a Model 52. The triger is simply amazing. Probably the best trigger of any gun I own. Unfortunately accurate 9mm's like the 952 or Sig 210 are too expensive for me. In the mean time I have a S&W 659 with a BarSto match barrel which is pretty accurate.
Peter

quote:

Originally posted by billt:

quote:

Originally posted by Wm.S.Ladd:
Friend of mine thinks 9mm is "worthless" --

I had that attitude for many years myself. Back then I bought into all the .45 "knockdown power" hype. Granted some of it was true, but today with the many excellent expanding bullets available in personal defense ammunition. the 9 MM is right up there in performance with the .45 ACP. Bill T.

Every 9mm shooter likes to believe that. I like the 9mm w/ good ammo in certain platforms, but the same bullet technology that gets the 9mm off it's knees also makes the 45 better. There are very few 9mm loads that will expand to 75cal+ & still penetrate deep enough to get to vitals. Here in Kalif. we are stuck w/ 10rd limits. In a full size pistol, might as well have a full size round.

The .45 argument had merit when these bullets didn't exist, simply because it made up the difference in bore size. Today with these excellent bullets loaded into most self defense ammo, it brings the 9 MM up to the same standards the .45 used to enjoy. Your argument has merit only if you believe you can kill someone "deader". Bill T.

It's not about "deader", it's about deader sooner. If you like 65cal expanded 9mm, you've got to love 75cal expanded 45s? Really, the 9mm is certainl ybetter fight stopper today than it was 20yrs ago, but it will never put as big of a hole as a 45 unless you go JHP vs ball. Still a free country so we all have choices. In my crappy 10rd state, I only go 9mm for the G26, bigger platforms get bigger rounds.

I have yet to find any 45 lover willing to take the frist round hit out of a 9mm.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
I have yet to find any 45 lover willing to take the frist round hit out of a 9mm.

I'm sorry pdog, but that is just stupid. I wouldn't stand & get shot by a 22lr either, but I would much rather have the BG shooting at me w/ one. That probably holds true of the 9mm as well if it's full of cheap ball ammo as it is likely to be. With a good JHP, I like the 9mm for what it is, but it will never be a 45 & every 9mm lover that thinks so is just kidding themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
That probably holds true of the 9mm as well if it's full of cheap ball ammo as it is likely to be.

Why would the 9MM, "be more likely to be full of cheap ammo"? Bill T.

I recently shot a 9mm Glock that I REALLY liked: G 34 race gun:
http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htm

And, here is my PM 9, at 7 yards, with 147 grain HP's:



I'm not convinced 12-14" is enough for 9mm, since every guy that's ever attacked me was well over 220. I've bought, and need to test, some flat point 147's, and, they give me the warm and fuzzies, both penetration and metplat wise.

Ball penetrates plenty, but doesn't leave a great wound channel.

HP's, even in 147's, are hard pressed to get past 14".

Actually, I have sort of the same reservation about 45 ACP, since it seems most ammo has been made to only penetrate 14".

Keep in mind the original John Browning load was a round nose, or flat point, 200 grain bullet, at 950 fps. This would give considerably better penetration then the current SD loads.

quote:

Originally posted by billt:

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
That probably holds true of the 9mm as well if it's full of cheap ball ammo as it is likely to be.

Why would the 9MM, "be more likely to be full of cheap ammo"? Bill T.

BGs don't spend $25 for 20rds of premium SD ammo. They buy the cheapest stuff on the shelf that they can get the most bang for their buck. That means FMJ, often cheap WWWB or WOlf. I would much rather get hit by 2-3 of those, I'm more likely to survive non vital hits, than one good expanding JHP. Unless they hit bone, RNFMJ poke smooth caliber holes.
To each his own. I seldom turn to the 9mm for SD/HD round. If I do, it has premium 124gr+P JHP. I'm stuck w/ 10rd limit here in Kalif. So the only 9mm I will carry is my G26. Full size pistols get full size rounds. I'ld rather have ten 45s than ten 9mm going into a fight.

You can say the same exact thing about the .45. This is as silly of an argument as it gets. I own and shoot 6, .45 ACP guns and 4 9MM's, so I don't have a dog in this fight. Both are good self defense rounds, and have been proven as such countless times. As far as having 10 of this or that, it reminds me of what the late Bill Jordan once said. "If you need more than 6, you lost!" Besides, living in Kalifornia is a far greater danger than carrying a 9MM. Bill T.

Not an argument bill, you asked so I responded. The 9mm is an ok SD round, usefull in the right platform. Here in kalif. it is 10rds, so the only 9mm that makes sense to me are the ultracompacts, my G26 fills that role well. You are also correct, living here is far more of a problem than what caliber to own/carry.