At what velovity does handgun ammo start to damage steel plate targets? I know the question is an open one but typicaly, at what speed will .40 and .357 caliber rounds start to dent and crater steel plates and pepper poppers? We will be doing some speed drills at the club using my own targets and I want to know What caliber to draw the line at. I myself shoot a 45acp with cast bullets and never worry about it but am thinking about the rounds over 1,000 fps.

Thanks

I’ve shot the hardened IPSC plates and silhouettes with a 308 and it didn't dent them. I don’t think you’d want to shoot the non-hardened steel targets with anything more powerful than a 45 or 38 Super; even a 357 mag might dent them.

If you are using mild steel, stay below 1500fps. Many clubs and Sections in USPSA used that as an upper limit when Open shooters were using 115gr bullets in their Supers and the powerfactor (bullet weight X velocity / 1000) was 175.

115gr bullets at 1550 to 1600 would dent and crater mild steel poppers and plates.

If you use AR-500, BP-500 or MilSpec 46-100 you'll NEVER even dent them. A 308 will knock the paint off of a 3/8" piece without otherwise marking it. All of these are 500 BHN (Brinnel hardness) or close. If you're looking for the steel I've got some but you'll have to laser, plasma or waterjet cut it.

quote:

but you'll have to laser, plasma or waterjet cut it.

Oxy-acetylene won't work?

It will cut it, but it's not a good edge and at 500 BHN you don't want to spend a lot of time with a grinder with it

The steel I have is from a place local that manufactures large plows for graders and loader buckets. It is the metal used in the actual blade that ride the pavement. I have some that is only 1/4" that I made plate targets out of and the stuff will chew up a cutting wheel on a grinder in a couple 14" cuts. It's definatly harder than mild because I tried to use my 1/4" heavy nibbler and the thing snapped out and smoked like crazy trying to cut it. I had some that was 5/16" that I had full size pepper popper cut from but he seemed to do fine with a Ox-Ac torch. I've shot these targets with full power 230gr. FMJ from my 5" 45acp and not even a slight effect other than a bullet smear.

Is it the power factor or high velocity that really does the dammage?

Thank you for the replys

The general formula takes into account the energy
( E=(M*(v^2))/450437 ) and the difference in the hardness of the materials.

All things being equal, a solid copper will penetrate better than a lead slug of identical characteristics, because of its hardness. And of course sheetrock is easier to penetrate than steel.

I was just looking over some plate that I have been using and noticed that it still has some #'s on it.

It reads 1/4" QT-100

Any idea if this is an indication of what it is?

I heart Google...
Canadian Steel Website Here

QT100 - Quenched and Tempered Steel that is heat-treated to develop yield strength. A cost effective choice for applications which require high strength, improved notch toughness, superior weldability and good formability, as well as good resistance to brittle fracture at low service temperatures.

Uses at IMAC:

* Buckets and Dozers where light weight and high strength are required together
* Highly stressed areas of other attachments
* Pallet forks.

Working QT100

* Flame Cutting
* Cold Forming - Generally plate up to 1" (25 mm) can be cold bent to a minimum inside radius of 2t (where t is the plate thickness), with the bend axis transverse to the rolling direction (i.e. across the grain) and a radius of 3t when bending parallel to the direction of roll. For plate 1" to 2.5" (25 mm - 65 mm) a radius of 3t should be used for cold forming with a bend radius of 4t when bending parallel to the direction of the roll.
* Welded using low hydrogen electrodes with preheat ( 120 F to 300 F (50 C - 150C dependant on thickness), controlled interpass temperature and retarded cooling.
* Heated to approximately 1100 F (600 C) for about 20 minutes for hot forming or stress relief operations without loss of mechanical properties.
* Machined and drilled by all normal means though care must be taken to use sharp tools and avoid scraping instead of cutting.

Price at early 1998 CDN$0.75 - $1.00 per pound, dependant on thickness.

Link to Industry Internal Language

Collins,
Thanks for the info (lots of it) It seems to be holding up real well so far and I can get it as "reminant" for dirt cheap so I think I'll stick with it for pistols.

quote:

at what speed will .40 and .357 caliber rounds start to dent and crater steel plates

FWIW

I have a spinner from 1/2" mild steel plate. My 180 grain 40S&W JHP rounds run 950 fps or sp and splat without any permanent marring. 158 grain JHP .357 mag rounds at 1100 fps leave a ring the size of the mouth of the hollowpoint a couple of thousandths deep on each hit. I've not tried lighter bullets at higher velocities...

My range sometimes has guys leave steel plates out on the rifle berms. One particular piece of plate was only about 3/8" thick, but survived months of battering before cracking and falling into 7-8 pieces. It was lightly cratered by .308 bore 180 grain softpoints at 2950 fps I know... I suspect that was similar to the hardened plate you have.

The problem with torch cutting what you have is that it will probably remove some of the temper/hardening. That defeats the purpose of using it over mild steel...though the effect will be most pronounced at the edges...not the center where we ALWAYS hit, right!?!?

I have some 3/8" mild steel plates. My experience has been similar to CDH's.

Standard pistol loads, 9mm, .38spl, .40, .45acp, and .45 colt leave no permanent marks other than taking off the paint.

Full house .357 and .44 loads will crater the surface but only by a minor amount.

I once shot them with a .223 at about 40yds just to see what would happen and they went clean through. Needless to say, I didn't do that again.

My son in law shot them with a .22 WMR which caused noticeable cratering. I stopped him after seeing the results.

Back in the early 70's I was showing my new guns to a guy. And he got into asking what they'd do to a cutting edge off a scraper. So we set it up to learn what high powers would do.
It was amazing to learn.

This was 1 1/8" thick, 10" wide and 4' long. Leaned against a bank.
No pistol would mark it, just splatter marks.
BUT: ALL the high powers, from .223, 7mmg/175gr, 300Win/180's, 06/180's, and a .45/70 he had. All except the 45/70 blew a crater in it the same depth, yes even the .223/55gr did. Only difference was the diameter depending on size of slug. The 45/70 was a jacketed bullet but I have no idea what wt it was now. IT barely put a mark on it, but, it did just enough we could feel a slight dimple.

Ok, I've made up about 20 4"sq, up to 6" sq knock downs welded to a 1" flat base. Mostly for pistol practice of my own. I bring them home so I'll have them. They are 3/8" mild steel. I shoot a .30 carbine blackhawk, .38, 357 and they all have dents in them. Mostly from the 30 I'm sure, as it's much more powerful than the others.

One time I let a kid set some up at 100yds and shot one with my 7mmag/175's while I was zeroing a new scope on another gun. There was nothing to back this up, just sitting on the wide open ground. Sure as H, the 7mag shot a hole clear thru it and just tipped it over, didn't blow it away like I expected.

We've got some 1" thick disks at 425yds and there's dimples and craters all over them from high powers. We also have a couple two in thick disks I'm sure are mild steel. They are torn up bad on the face, fully covered with craters and a very few holes thru them. I have looked them over well several times. The holes thru, have been multiple hits in the same crater that eventually go thru. Only a couple small holes I'd bet were hit with AP's.

We've got a full sized Ram at 200yds for blk pwdr. Idiots shoot it up bad with high power jacketed so much we can't keep it in decent shape. One time two yrs ago I cut out the chest area and welded a new pc of 1/2" AR. That held up well, but, they hit the welds enough times they finally cut it out again.

The club paid another guy $500 to make a new turkey and Ram from AR plate. Darned guy used 3/8" and it didn't last much over two months. Of course the board is mostly city dudes that have no idea what steel is, or what type is needed. So they've put $500 reward for anyone proven to be shooting holes in them. He should have used 3/4" AR, that should have held up. For $500, he could have too. He's known as a rip off on his prices. But, I'm not able to do the work now due to a back injury.

Far as bp and light jackets in pistols and bolt pistols for the silhoette games. The targets are made of 1/2" AR and we have lots of them for back up's. Most match's will damage a couple. Usually a broken weld on the base, or birds might lose heads, or others lose a leg. They save them up til they have about 20 damaged then call one of us to repair them.

About 1960, three of us loaded 1000 AP's in 06 and shot white spots on the center web of the rails. Over a summers time, we shot enough holes in a three foot section the a slow moving engine crushed it down and derailed. OF course we never shot there again and only went back the once. The web is good hard steel, but, not AR quality, it sure is on the face of the rail though. That Idon't think can be marked with a bullet, not of hunting type's. I'd like to test it though. I do believe mainline rail work hardens, but, I'm not positive. Does anyone know for sure?

Just reporting what I've seen and done is all.

George