22 WMR vs 22 MRF

25 February 2017, 03:10

Kensco

That was my original thought also. Then I started finding all kinds of designations; 22 MRF, 22 WMR, and 22WRF after my son fired the 22 WMR V-Max. He said the fired shells could not be ejected from the cylinder without being tapped with a hammer, and two of the new V-Max failed to fire. I thought maybe the pistol just hadn't been fired in so long that it just needed a good cleaning / oiling. I'm not so sure now. I'm holding the gun until I know for sure what's going on here.

After starting this thread, I submitted a question to Smith & Wesson to see what they say. I'll post again when I get a response.

I hope to get a positive response because about thirty years ago I sent the Model 48 and my Model 57 back to S&W for engraving and my son's name placed on the M48, and mine placed on the M57. They are a great looking set of revolvers. It would be a shame to find he can't shoot modern ammo in his gun.

25 February 2017, 04:24

Gatogordo

I'm pretty sure they are both seriously defective. I can pay better than scrap metal prices for them and save you from possible injury.......

25 February 2017, 04:31

Kensco

I'm thinking about it.............I'm going to have to say......No, but it was a very attractive offer.

(I have a funny feeling you never get beat on a deal.)

25 February 2017, 05:16

Gatogordo

Seriously, the only logical thing I can think of about the "sticking" is that possibly what you used to store/clean the guns has dried/gummed up the cylinder holes, or possibly just plain corrosion. It is possible that the ejector rod was stuck, not the cases.

Basically my same thoughts about the failure to fire, letting various cleaning substances dry inside a pistol can absolutely freeze it up. Considering it's engraved, I'd try to avoid taking sideplates off unless you're really careful and use a perfectly fitting screwdriver. I'd first remove the grips, take it outside, while wearing heavy rubber gloves and spay the hell out of it with brake cleaner thru every hole you can find. You could even boil them in water, then spray them, and then oil them with light oil/Rem oil, etc. I'd try brake cleaner and judiciously spraying some oil in it first.

Alternatively, take grips off and soak it in diesel for a few days, then spray with brake cleaner, etc.

After you get it working, you can use it to fend off your WOUNDED hogs.

25 February 2017, 17:38

Kensco

Thanks for the ideas. Would have never thought of brake cleaner.

I'm thinking Amanda got off unscathed. It was kind of like the Matrix movie most likely. She saw the shot coming.

Smoked two hams and two shoulders Thursday morning and shared with four families.

26 February 2017, 22:42

GeorgeS

The .22WRF is a different round entirely.

as Gatogordo said, the lubricant used might have gummed up after all those years.

Field strip it, soak the parts in Kroil (or similar), reassemble, and lubricate.

George

28 February 2017, 17:09

Kensco

Well I got my response from Smith & Wesson. She said I can shoot 22 MRF ammunition in the MRF marked pistol. I responded that THAT wasn't my question. Can I shoot WMR ammo safely in a pistol marked MRF? Waiting again.

28 February 2017, 17:50

Gatogordo

Geesh!!!

02 March 2017, 01:13

enfieldspares

quote:
The .22WRF is a different round entirely.

As he says. .22WRF is the internal lubricated cartridge for the Winchester Model 1903 Self Loading Rifle. It resembles the .22 WMRF as the .38 S & W Long resembles the .32 Harrington & Richardson Magnum or the .38 S & W Special the .357 Maximum. The .22 WNRF being simply a more powerful and LONGER CASED version of the shoter round.

02 March 2017, 01:19

Kensco

Got my second response from Smith & Wesson.

"Dear Customer, It will not be safe to use. Regards, Rachel"

02 March 2017, 04:04

Gatogordo

DOUBLE GEESH!!! One for the owner and one for the responder.

02 March 2017, 04:50

Gatogordo

Just in case you're not being deliberately obtuse, here is a brief history from the Am. Rifleman of the Smith 48 from it's initial introduction when it was made specifically for the Winchester .22 Mag. Rim fire, which was introduced by Winchester several months before the 48. To this day, Smith marks all of it .22 Mag revolvers with ".22 M. R. F. Ctg." and AFAIK has never marked one with W M R.

quote:

In 1959 the folks at Olin/Winchester decided to offer a rimfire cartridge with some extra zing over the quintessential .22 LR cartridge that dominated-and still does-the rimfire market. As has often been the case, the gun-manufacturing side of Winchester lagged behind the cartridge-development side, and it took another year before the Model 61 would be available in the new cartridge christened the .22 WMR or Winchester Magnum Rimfire.

But Ruger and Smith & Wesson had revolvers available within a few months of the cartridge’s unveiling. Savage-a company that seems to always have been ready to spring into action on short notice-brought forth the Model 24 to harness this peppy little rimfire in short order as well. The Ruger and Savage offerings were well-made arms with more than a little aesthetic enhancements. But the folks in Springfield, Mass., already had the K-22 Masterpiece-a K-frame double-action revolver with exquisite fit, finish and accuracy chambered in .22 LR. They had already addressed the issue of converting an otherwise center-fire revolver to fire rimfire cartridges, so it was a simple matter to run a .22 WMR reamer through the cylinder six times and kick a .22 Mag-as the cartridge has been referred to almost since its inception-out the door. Well, actually, there was one other change: running a .224-inch broach through the barrel instead of a .222-inch one used in .22 LR.

The first Model 48-serial number K 348746-came off the line on May 11, 1959 and appeared in the Smith & Wesson catalog by August of that year, according to Roy Jinks in History of Smith & Wesson. It has only been available in a blue finish and in 4-, 6- and 8 3/8-inch barrel lengths. This revolver has undergone four revisions since its introduction, the Model 48 (without a dash) which was made available in 1959 and is a four-screw revolver; the Model 48-1, which changed the extractor from a right-hand thread to a left-hand thread (December 22, 1959); Model 48-2, which changed the cylinder stop to eliminate the fourth screw at the front of the trigger guard (December 29, 1961); the Model 48-3 which changed the position of the rear sight leaf screw (December 14, 1967); and the Model 48-4 which moved the gas ring from the yoke to the cylinder (1977). The pinned barrel feature was eliminated in 1982. It has been reported that a few Model 48 revolvers came from the factory with both .22 LR and .22 WMR cylinders, but this option was aborted soon after its introduction.

02 March 2017, 07:13

Kensco

Interesting. I'm shooting at the Frisco Gun Club tomorrow, and on my way home I'm going by Cabela's and Gunmaster.

If I go to the Smith & Wesson website and punch-in "Revolver" and "22 Magnum", I get four options, one of which is a Model 48, 22 Long Rifle, and doesn't belong there. The other three are the Model 48 marked like mine, and as Gato mentions; and two Model 351s with the same 22 MRF marking. Going to be interesting to see what the response is when I ask them what ammo those revolvers shoot. I have a feeling they are going to disagree with "Rachel".

02 March 2017, 07:35

Grenadier

They are not the same. Winchester makes a batch of 22 WRF once in a blue moon.

The 22 WRF bullet is .226" vs .224" for the 22 WMR.

This is a box from the 1986 run. Note it says Limited Edition:

Cartridges, left to right -- .22 LR, .22 WRF, .22 WMR (.22 Magnum)

03 March 2017, 00:48

Kensco

I stopped by Gunmaster Inc. this morning on the way to Frisco Gun Club. They said the lady from Smith & Wesson was wrong. The WSM is the round to fire in the S&W Model 48 stamped 22 M.R.F. CTG. I also cleaned the revolver twice yesterday. Today I fired two cylinders of 22 WMR while practicing with my 9mm. The fired cases ejected easily. I did have one misfire. I fired it again and it ignited. I figure a few more cleanings and my problems should go away entirely.

03 March 2017, 01:57

Gatogordo

quote:
Originally posted by Kensco:
I stopped by Gunmaster Inc. this morning on the way to Frisco Gun Club. They said the lady from Smith & Wesson was wrong. The WSM is the round to fire in the S&W Model 48 stamped 22 M.R.F. CTG. I also cleaned the revolver twice yesterday. Today I fired two cylinders of 22 WMR while practicing with my 9mm. The fired cases ejected easily. I did have one misfire. I fired it again and it ignited. I figure a few more cleanings and my problems should go away entirely.

Geesh!!! No wonder the Smith lady is confused, a WSM (Winchester Short Magnum) surely won't work in a 48.

I'm getting worried about you. I'm surprised you can use toilet paper. There are no directions on the package.

03 March 2017, 04:55

Kensco

I got an email apology from a fellow named Steve with Smith & Wesson this afternoon regarding all the misinformation coming from them. I'm not sure if Rachel is still with them.

I think the "WSM" came from my 300. Been mixing all kinds of letters the last few days.

If anyone hasn't been to Gunmaster Inc. in Plano, you might give them a go. (I suspect they will be my go-to place for reloading supplies.) Their people seem to know firearms. (I've been amazed at the inexperienced people working at Cabela's lately. Their last job must have been JCPenney).