Hey guys, I'm relatively new to the hand gunning world. I am however very interested in buying a new 1911 type pistol. I would like to get one for under 950 if possible. I have narrowed it down to the Kimber stainless II or custom II, and the Springfield armory loaded series. One thing though, I looked at a Springfield the other day and it said "made in Brazil." It may sound strange but part of the reason I want a 1911 model is because of the history behind it and I don't want one made in Brazil. Are these 2 models fairly comparable? I think the Kimber/Springfield debate tends to be somewhat like the ford/chevy one but I would like some opinions. I also have heard good things about the S&W and the sig 1911's but I just am still leaning towards Kimber or SA. This gun will be just mainly for some target shooting and is my first auto. I know Kimber has a 1 year warranty and the Springfield it a lifetime warranty...should that play a role in my decision making? I don't know how often these gun's need attention. Thanks for any help.

I own a SW1911 and a Springfield Armory 1911A1. The Smith & Wesson isn't a true clone because it has: 1) an external extractor and 2) it has the later internal firing pin block (started with the Series 80 Colts). My Springfield is a true clone 1911, all steel. But I had my SA tweaked by Cylinder & Slide to add a lot of things the newer models have as standard equipment. I like the beavertail grip safety, the Novak sights and an improved trigger. If I were to go for a new Springfield I would get one of the models that has those modifications as you may end up wanting them in the end. By the way, my S&W shoots very well and is a great out the box pistol with no need for upgrades (any that I need). But a tweaked Springfield is a better pistol with a much better trigger.

Para-Ordnance LDA P16.
Sixteen shot, double action in 40S&W.

Rich
DRSS

Both brands are good. I personally lean towards Kimber in the 1911 clone variety but I think your Ford/Chevy analogy is accurate.

I read your post about Brazilian made arms but for the money in a 1911 copy it is absolutely impossible to beat the relatively new Tauras for about $500....that's what mine cost locally. I know one dedicated 1911 shooter that bought one to prove that the "word" about them was BS, now carries it as his daily carry after some trigger work.

I agree with what you say about the nostalga of the 1911. Single action, single stack, .45 ACP is the only way to go. I've had a Kimber Team Match II for about 2 years now and have never regretted the purchase or wished I'd gone another route. It was kind of a fussy eater when it was new, but the problem has long been ironed out. It feeds like a champ and man, does it shoot! IMHO, the basis of every hand gun collection should be a 1911, and you can't go wrong with the Kimber.

Both are well made pistols. You could also look at a Colt. Everyone should have at least one 1911.

Last time I looked, Les Baer would work on a Springfield, but not on a Kimber.

Les Baer is the guru for the 1911.

www.lesbaer.com/
www.lesbaer.com/1911s.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Baer

If you're looking at the 1911, you need to realize you're stepping into a cult culture. There are more after-market accessories, parts for the 1911 than any other gun on the market.

You can build a 1911 from after-market parts, and in fact Kimber when they were located in Gladstone Oregon, did just that. Kimber had some company -- I think maybe Kahr -- build a receiver, and then it was all after market parts.

Early Kimbers were "fancy" but had some "fit" issues. For a while the mags wouldn't lock up without depressing the mag button. There was a period when Kimber guns wouldn't lock open on the last round.

Those are all "fit" issues. After-market parts need to be "fitted."

Current Kimbers are better. But I think still, they're WAY over rated.

I have a SA "mil spec" and "ultra compact." The mil spec is more or less the gun I was issued in the Army. The eject port has been lowered. Mag well is beveled.

My SA "ultra compact" has all the "bells/whistles" . . . SA calls the gun "Loaded." It's all beveled, matched, tuned with custom trigger, hammer, beavertail grip, bushings, firing pins, extended releases, Bomar night sights, etc.

There's a reason Springfield got the FBI contract. Lifetime warranty is a big part of it. But the guns are produced in Brazil in a state of the art factory, and then fitted/finished in the USA.

Don't let the "Brazil" thing put you off.

Kimber is selling a lot of "eye wash." They're fancy guns. But if you want "fancy" in a factory 1911 you should go with a Wilson Combat.

Or you could get a Springfield, save yourself some money, and get into the hot, tuned, custom race gun 1911 when you know what you're looking at.

Les Baer will tune your Springer, and it's a good gun to build on, probably the best gun to build on.

My SA's are the tightest factory production 1911's I've seen in the shops.

Take you time, I look around and on here I got lucky and Bought a Colt Gold Cup National Match Trophy for $850.

quote:

Originally posted by gunny:
Hey guys, I'm relatively new to the hand gunning world. I am however very interested in buying a new 1911 type pistol. I would like to get one for under 950 if possible. I have narrowed it down to the Kimber stainless II or custom II, and the Springfield armory loaded series. One thing though, I looked at a Springfield the other day and it said "made in Brazil." It may sound strange but part of the reason I want a 1911 model is because of the history behind it and I don't want one made in Brazil. Are these 2 models fairly comparable? I think the Kimber/Springfield debate tends to be somewhat like the ford/chevy one but I would like some opinions. I also have heard good things about the S&W and the sig 1911's but I just am still leaning towards Kimber or SA. This gun will be just mainly for some target shooting and is my first auto. I know Kimber has a 1 year warranty and the Springfield it a lifetime warranty...should that play a role in my decision making? I don't know how often these gun's need attention. Thanks for any help.

Gunny get the Springfield if your not going to buy an STI or SV.

The cheapest Springfield is better than any Kimber

quote:

Originally posted by blaser93:
Take you time, I look around and on here I got lucky and Bought a Colt Gold Cup National Match Trophy for $850.

Check for frame cracks and use only puff target loads

quote:

Originally posted by Beauford:
Last time I looked, Les Baer would work on a Springfield, but not on a Kimber.

Les Baer is the guru for the 1911.

Les Baar ain't nothing more than a high priced parts gun.

He buys his frames and slides pre fitted and adds the parts and finish.

quote:

Originally posted by COOL:

quote:

Originally posted by Beauford:
Last time I looked, Les Baer would work on a Springfield, but not on a Kimber.

Les Baer is the guru for the 1911.

Les Baar ain't nothing more than a high priced parts gun.

He buys his frames and slides pre fitted and adds the parts and finish.

Or he'll tune your gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Beauford:

quote:

Originally posted by COOL:

quote:

Originally posted by Beauford:
Last time I looked, Les Baer would work on a Springfield, but not on a Kimber.

Les Baer is the guru for the 1911.

Les Baar ain't nothing more than a high priced parts gun.

He buys his frames and slides pre fitted and adds the parts and finish.

Or he'll tune your gun.

YEA, THEY PUT THE SLIDE IN A VISE AND SQUEEZE IT
THEN THEY BEAT IT BACK AND FORTH OVER THE FRAME....................

Thats why the Gold cup comes with 2 spring sets.

quote:

Originally posted by Beauford:
Last time I looked, Les Baer would work on a Springfield, but not on a Kimber.

Maybe cuz those Springfields need some work.

An above post brings up another choice. With careful shopping and patience you can buy a series 70 Colt Gold Cup in very good condition for $800 or less. It is a real bargain at that price and, of course, has the cachet of being a Colt.

Give the Dan Wesson 1911s a look. I recently bought a pointman 7 that is superb.

I'll stick with my Para...15 rounds of 45acp. Standard model of LDA.

Rich
DRSS

in the early 90's i bought SS enhanced gold cup.
with wilson mags it would jam with hardball. front sight shot loose and had to be re-staked. i haven't owned another colt product since. and won't again. i did buy a baer premier II in 1995 and i still have it. i've been a lot of miles with this gun and wouldn't trade or sell this gun for any reason. you will pay more for his guns than for a springfield, kimber, smith & wesson. the performance and reliability will be there if you need it. you can pay alot more and not get a better gun.
james

I have a Colt 1991 A1, stainless with 6-mags(came with 2-mags), orignal packaging from Colt. It's designated use was for 'only' as a house gun. Fired about 2-boxes of ammo thru it; been in and out of a holster, in and out of a drawer. Can send pix's

$650.

belt-loop'at'cox'dot'net


remove the 'at' and the 'dot' and put in the correct symbols for email..

Gunny, I own 3 kimbers and love em. They have all been very accurate and dependable. I have not played with SA pistols, but have heard good things.

Just as a point of information, the Marine's Special Operations Group are using Kimbers in Iraq as I write this. They don't buy junk and have reordered, I believe.

I think Springfield Armory makes good pistols too, but to say that Kimbers are junk says something about the sayer, not the pistols.

I looked at both Kimber and Springfield as well when I got my 1911 and I did a lot of research on forums my favorite forum for 1911 stuff is 1911fourms.com which seems to be down last 2 days ,but the main thing I saw was Springfield seemed to be easier to deal with for any warranty issues (their factory rep even routinely posted on the forums ),sooo I now have a SA Combat Black Stainless loaded and i love it

Thanks for the info guys. I'm not sure what I will get but it looks like both are quality gun's. I think I may just keep my eyes open and see what "jumps out" at me.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Just as a point of information, the Marine's Special Operations Group are using Kimbers in Iraq as I write this. They don't buy junk and have reordered, I believe.

I think Springfield Armory makes good pistols too, but to say that Kimbers are junk says something about the sayer, not the pistols.

Gatogordo, LAPD SWAT also chose MIMBER at about
the same time SDPD was dumping MIMBER.

MIMBERS infernal Mark II Firing Pin Safety System is the main reason I won't own or sell the product which is the main reason PD's buy the gun.
I've seen to many fail to fire to feel comfortable.

I've been told all the guns purchased by the Marines are 'Series 70' models.

In all the years I've shot IPSC Kimber has never been more than an oddity.

No group of people know more about the 1911 platform or have put more rounds down range than IPSC shooters.

World Class shooters choose STI SV SA and the new Sig.

Did you know that Smith & Wesson made the frames and slides for Kimber?

STI hammer forged frames and bar stock slides are sold as kits to many HIGH DOLLAR gun companies like Les Baar.

A friend of mine won the Single Stack Classic some years back. First Prize was a custom 1911 built by a 'Legendary Grand Master 1911 PistolSmith' valued at $4500.00.
This guy has a 7-8 year backorder for his pistols.
The gun was not on the prize table, like it was contracted to be.
After 3 months of hearing NOTHING he started emailing the PUTZ.
Twelve RESPECTFUL inquiries over 12 months went unanswered.
Finally he was contacted and given a couple rides on the merry-go-round by the guys wife.
At month 14 I took matters into hand and wrote a detailed account and posted it on http://forums.1911forum.com/
I sent an email to the Grand Master with a link to the post asking him to PUBLICLY explain his actions.
MAN DID THE SHIT HIT THE FAN!
Long story short my friend got his gun 2 months later.
Believe me when I say my new $950.00 STI TROJAN .40 was its equal or better in every measure.
My Buddy was so disgusted by the fit and finish he he sold it for $5000.00.

Gatogordo, living in Texas, AKA 1911 HEAVEN, as you do you should call/visit

http://www.stiguns.com/

http://www.dawsonprecision.com/

http://www.brazoscustom.com/

I haven't had a chance to run one but this looks very interesting.



STI Spartan at 10% below retail!

Retail $660.00
Brazos Price - $594.00