A word of caution.....if you buy Para be prepared for real problems if your pistol needs some fixing. They have no customer service and their claim of lifetime service is a joke, unless they mean you will wait a lifetime for service.

Best extractors....fiction...failed on two pistols
Best reliabilty....fiction...mine were totally
unreliable
The Best Service Policy....fiction....

I have posted before....I started with them on March 4....the pistol has been returned twice. 1st time took over 2 months to get it back and the one they sent back failed immediately.

It went back June 15....still waiting...
They do not return phone calls or answer e-mails. When I do call and get a live (?) person I was told on two occasions that they are now working on it and should be to me in a few days....outright bullshit.

Received the pistol back 8/17....

Tested with 4 factory brands....

7" high at 25 yards (sights not adjustable)
4-6 inch groups.

Pistol is being disposed of.....

OK I just have to ask...

Do some of these handgun companies have ANYBODY on Staff, that knows anything about shooting handguns???

Do they even test to see what size sights they need???

Do they even know if their handguns work????

Do they know what the initials QC stands for???

PS, current S&W Revolvers do not work out of the box any where near 100% of the time either....

to answer your questions - machine shops today are run by computers, people program them to do a task and walk away. thus the people who know guns that well aren't computer programmers. enuf said

Your questions and my experience with Para:

Do some of these handgun companies have ANYBODY on Staff, that knows anything about shooting handguns??? DOUBTFUL....

Do they even test to see what size sights they need???
I don't think so. Picture this; they returned my pistol with night sights on the rear, leaving the fiber optic front!!!! And never did any sort of calibration regarding rear sight height to determine if it coordinated with the front sight; especially important considering the rear sight is not adjustable.

Do they even know if their handguns work????
They claim to have tested it and it did seem to function this time around.

Do they know what the initials QC stands for???
Sure, it means quick and careless.....

My best advice, avoid Para like the plague.....they have no customer service. I am still battling with them over the pistol I have now sent back three times....a week ago, 9/14, I called again....this after the pistol back there for the third time on 8/31. The man I spoke to told me that he fired the gun and could not get through a magazine. He promised me an answer yesterday. Nothing. I called today; not available.

Just before that last returned I was advised by a couple of my gun writer pals to call and ask for Thanos, one of the head guys. I did....he would not take my call and I was told to e-mail the girl who answered and she would get it to him. I did....no response from him, but from someone named Craig who told me to send the gun back...again. He is the one I spoke to last week.

Today the lady answering the phone confirmed that Thanos would not call me back, and damned near agreed with me that they have no customer service.

I am taking the time to post this so that many of you who are pistol shooters do not go through what I have been through with this company.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
OK I just have to ask...

Do some of these handgun companies have ANYBODY on Staff, that knows anything about shooting handguns???

Do they even test to see what size sights they need???

Do they even know if their handguns work????

CZ in Europe does. I just bought an SP-01. It comes with the test target AFTER ADJUSTMENT BY THE TESTER and with a diagram of the first shots tested before sight adjustment and with the name of the tester. The importer in France is also very rapid with turn around. They also have a Team CZ France web site where the members of their French IPSC team respond to questions. All in all pretty good.

I'll bet CZ USA does something similar.

Which model? I've been considering a 7.45. I don't recall the original issues but would be interested in hearing about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Sam:
Which model? I've been considering a 7.45. I don't recall the original issues but would be interested in hearing about it.

The original issues were that the pistol would not feed reliably, not even one magazine through.

And it progressed from there as you can see from the foregoing.

The big issue is customer service. I am still waiting for the replacement and have been at this with them since February SEVEN MONTHS and I still do not have one back; two different guns even though same model.

You may get lucky, and I have friends that are and that's why I bought it.

To me any product is only as good as the company's customer service and Para's is non existent. There are too many other 1911s out there to take a chance you will get one that needs service, either right out of the box or later on.

A miracle....I received a replacement pistol from them a few days ago.....8 months in process.

how can they be so popular in IPSC where they shoot tens of thousands of rounds a year?

Rich

Rich,

They are (or have been) a popular place to start building a pistol with the best possible internals ... if done that way the Para can result in a heck of a pistol!

I have one Super race gun and one limited gun in 40 S&W and 45 ACP) built that way. Were built around Para frames.

The race gun cracked a slide at 40k of 180 PF ammo (for the old major requirement) That's pretty much like .357 Magnum ballistics.

I've seen very few out of the box Paras or even Kimbers that didn't require some work or a few parts.

quote:

I received a replacement pistol from them a few days ago.....8 months in process.

With a differennt serial number? How can they do that?
Peter.

I have a P-14 I have put over ten thousand rounds of IPSC Major thru without a single hiccup. It's my carry gun, I bet my life on its reliability.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:

quote:

I received a replacement pistol from them a few days ago.....8 months in process.

With a differennt serial number? How can they do that?
Peter.

Easy, this is not the same gun, it is a new one....

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I have a P-14 I have put over ten thousand rounds of IPSC Major thru without a single hiccup. It's my carry gun, I bet my life on its reliability.

Rich

Rich, I bought the pistol because I have a few friends that have them and really like the ones they have. When they are good, they are very good, but if they go bad and you need service....watch out....

Bill, I understand that it is a new one. That is the point. You have had a firearm transferred to you via an FFL. You no longer own/have this gun. You now miraculously have another firearm with no legal provenance and a different serial number. Just asking. I have heard of this happening before and am just not sure how (legally) they can get away with it.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Bill, I understand that it is a new one. That is the point. You have had a firearm transferred to you via an FFL. You no longer own/have this gun. You now miraculously have another firearm with no legal provenance and a different serial number. Just asking. I have heard of this happening before and am just not sure how (legally) they can get away with it.
Peter.

Whoa, for a moment, this new one came to me via my local FFL dealer....nothing to get away with...

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Bill, I understand that it is a new one. That is the point. You have had a firearm transferred to you via an FFL. You no longer own/have this gun. You now miraculously have another firearm with no legal provenance and a different serial number. Just asking. I have heard of this happening before and am just not sure how (legally) they can get away with it.
Peter.

There is a provision in the ATF regs to allow a replacement for a non servicable gun. I will look it up and post it

Thanks Chuck! I would like to see that. It actually happened to me before and it did not come through an FFL. They just replaced it and sent it to me!
Peter.

I had an off brand .22 revolver replaced under warantee. They used the old serial number on a new frame, numbers are a little crooked now. Gun works better, platting came off of the muzzle again. It's on target now though.

How's the new Para working?

Q: A firearm is delivered to a licensee by an unlicensed individual for the purpose of repair. Is the return of the repaired firearm subject to the requirements of the Brady law?

Would the transfer of a replacement firearm from the licensee to the owner of the damaged firearm be subject to the requirements of the Brady law?

Neither the transfer of a repaired firearm nor the transfer of a replacement firearm would be subject to the requirements of the Brady law. Furthermore, the regulations provide that a Form 4473 is not required to cover these transactions. However, the licensee’s permanent acquisition and disposition records should reflect the return of the firearm or the transfer of a replacement firearm.

[27 CFR 478.124-25]


Directly from ATFs website

Chuck...thanks for that clarification....

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
how can they be so popular in IPSC where they shoot tens of thousands of rounds a year?

Rich

Gunsmith built.....lol.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I have a P-14 I have put over ten thousand rounds of IPSC Major thru without a single hiccup. It's my carry gun, I bet my life on its reliability.

Rich

I have a P14-45 that I put about $700 in aftermarket parts into through an armorer at the local Police Department who was a gunsmith on the side.

It shoots a HG 200 cast bullet on top of 4.3 grains of Bullseye and is the most accurate pistol I have ever owned or shot.

Maybe all the work done on it corrected any in house problems as it has been error free for about 5,000 rounds. Love it but don't carry it much anymore as it is a heavy sucker.

quote:

Originally posted by billinthewild:
A miracle....I received a replacement pistol from them a few days ago.....8 months in process.

January 13, 2011. I finally worked up the "courage" to try the replacement. When this was sent to me back in October I was assured it had been tested before it went out.
Today.....3 brands of factory ammo; 3 different magazines. Fails to eject and jams EVERY shot!!!
Repeat. Avoid Para!!!!! Wish I was going to the shot show....I would really lay it on them.

not trying to be rude or anything but do you have any other 1911 pistols? can you shoot them without problem? i ask because i just can't see 1 person getting 2 defective pistols back to back. are you sure its not a grip issue? maybe limp wristing?

a search of the internet reveals quite a few very similar cases

quote:

Originally posted by sksshooter:
not trying to be rude or anything but do you have any other 1911 pistols? can you shoot them without problem? i ask because i just can't see 1 person getting 2 defective pistols back to back. are you sure its not a grip issue? maybe limp wristing?

It is not just 2...the first one went back 3 times and they then replaced it with the latest one, a new one. Your thoughts are appreciated and to answer you...
I presently have quite a few 1911s, as well as several other semi autos. The 1911 is my favorite pistol. I have been shooting in IPSC for years. In this case I am sure it is the gun (and Para) not the shooter. Further I bought this particular pistol because a friend has 2, one in 45 one in 9mm. I have shot both with no problems at all and I thought it would be an ideal carry gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck1911:
a search of the internet reveals quite a few very similar cases

I have a friend at the Shot Show who is going to talk to Para. Will report what he has to say.

bill thanks for the reply. i guess if you are an ipsc shooter then you have sent a few rounds down range and your technique is not the problem. it sucks to hear that you are having so much trouble. good luck to you and i hope you get some satisfaction out of your troubles in the end.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
OK I just have to ask...

Do some of these handgun companies have ANYBODY on Staff, that knows anything about shooting handguns???

Do they even test to see what size sights they need???

Do they even know if their handguns work????

Do they know what the initials QC stands for???

PS, current S&W Revolvers do not work out of the box any where near 100% of the time either....

Sometimes I think the "quality has gone to hell in a handbasket, and it's a piece of junk" posts are ego boosters for curmudgeons.

I have some 2 dozen handguns, brand name and military (No Jennings, Bryco). They shoot where I point, lock up tight, and I've never had any problems with any of them after thousands and thousands of factory and handload rounds.

I owned a Para 1045, blue steel, used. Never had any problems whatever -- except the mags were over-priced. Several Smith & Wesson revolvers, flawless. A couple Springfield, near perfection. Some Rugers handguns and rifles, great customer service when I jammed an extractor on a No. 1 -- which was MY FAULT.

My P14-45 is probably 10-12 years old??? and was purchased just after they started to hit the market here in the US and were getting some ink in the Stab and Blast magazines. The gunsmith that did the work on it took it out to test the fitting of all the parts and when I came over to pick it up he asked me if I wanted to sell it. That was the first clue that this one was a shooter. He gave me his formula for his .45ACP loads for his competition gun and I've rode with it since. Very Very accurate but very heavy.

It could be a sign of diminishing QC over the years, which would not be that unusual.

I very happy with mine. Sorry to hear about your woes with the one you have.

Just my 2 cents....I have been shooting my P1640 LDA for 3 years now. There are a couple of bullets that don't cycle 100% of the time, but they are cheap bullets. Other than that, it is as good as my kimber custom II 10mm. It is too bad that you got a lemon.

Finally some good results. They sent a pick up slip for the beast and it went back last week.
Promised another model in return.

Way to hang in there! Keep us posted.
Peter.