I'm looking for recommendations for a handgun to carry in grizzly areas.

Thanks!!!

Read the article at the link first and it well give you a good idea of what works.

https://www.ammoland.com/2021/...-cases-97-effective/

I prefer revolvers in 357 41 44 45 colt 454.

Nothing wrong with a good semi-auto

The 10mm has gain a lot of traction.

All with heavier good penetrating bullets.

Bullets that penetrate at least 16 plus inches in 10 percent ballistic gel seem to work well.

There is no such thing as over penetration on bears.

Again read the linked article and find out what has worked and decide from there.

The list of a good bear, self-defense handgun.

One that you well have on you all the time.

Two it is decently accurate.

Three is powerful enough to get the job done.

Helping is affordable ammo that you well practice enough with.

Very interesting reading, p dog shooter. Thanks for posting that link.

I suppose if a pistol is all you got, its better than a baseball bat, Id suggest a 41 or 44 magnum, hot loaded with proper bullet, but after I climbed a tree if possible..Last time I fished in griz country I had a 30-30 trapper slung over my shoulder, paid attention to my location in relation to the bears, avoided the thick stuff, and kept my distance, no problems resulted.

10 mm glock seems to be replacing 44 revolvers as most revolvers are heavy enuf to anchor your boat i still carry 44 with 4 in bbl but having 16 rds would be nice if you ran into pissed off sow with 3 big cubs it does happen cubs will attack with mother you should watch story of Old Groaner on youtube you are more likley to get attacked by sow with cubs i had to kill big sow when 2 small cubs ran up to anout 5 feet to look at me but i had big rifle

Anukpuk You should read this 3 part series on.

quote:

Old Groaner

https://www.ammoland.com/2022/...-and-pistol-defense/

https://www.ammoland.com/2022/...i-the-1953-re-write/

https://www.ammoland.com/2022/...the-story-over-time/

I grew up in Ketchikan Alaska. I have heard all the stories and read all of the stories from hand logger Jackson, two people witnessing the same event generally can give stories that are quite a bit different and photograph get negative reversed, but generally the story I would say is accurate enough to get the idea the bear was shot with some small caliber pistol about like a 380 at some point and without going into all the details, there is still a lot of bears shot around here that are not reported, but you still hear the stories Alaska was a pretty wild and remote lawless place until around the 1960s fishing boats didn’t have radios outboards weren’t very good. People still rode their boats when they needed to go someplace fishing boats robbed creeks people robbed the fish traps. Things people don’t imagine would happen today

Also, did Dean Weingarten ever go to Ketchikan and go to the museum and did he ever contact Kevin at yes bay Lodge? I think Kevin owns this 3872 I would like to know where Dean got all his information.

One can look at the facts believe what one wants two.

As you stated stories change that leaves room for speculation on what really happen.

I probably agree with Dean Weingartner on most everything, but calling old Groner story, a myth is a mystery to me. What makes him any more credible than hand logger Jackson in the long run he is just another Gun writer, and he gets his stories from somebody else.

Mr. Weingarten never stated that Mr. Johnstone never shot a bear with is 38-72.

That bear had been previously shot by someone else with a 33 cal. rifle. three rifle bullets were recovered two old ones one fresh one. No mention of any
pistol bullets.

The wounds to the scull are consist with that.

Who shot the bear first what happen to that person. Is pure speculation on the first articles Author.

The story of old groaner has grown way out of proportion.

By speculation and good story telling.

There was three 38 caliber, pistol bullets in the jaw they think was done by Southington So somebody missed that part of the story

There were no pistol bullets mentioned in the original 1936 article.

Read the original article. Mr. Weingarten has photo copies of it.

One can read it at the Wasilla AK .public library.

The only reference to Jess Sethington was that he owned a 33 cal. rifle and disappeared in the area 12 years earlier.

No other evidence is or was offered.

Having read hand loggers Jackson's books I found them to be good reading.

He lived and amazing life.

17 years after the first story, 3 plus decades after Jess disappeared.

All these new and wonder details come out.

The fact that a lot of the 2nd story does not match the first one.

There seem to be a lot of literary Lic. applied to the 2nd story.

Kevin and his family acquired. Yes bay Lodge about 50 years ago and he’s the one that has the rifle. I don’t know if he still owns the lodge but you can contact him and find out there was a pistol involved three shots to the jaw a friend of mine worked at, the lodge about 20 years ago and I’ve heard the story again from him but they think Southington had a pistol from what people know about Sappington and that’s probably why he was groaning because his jaw was shot away. The skull measured 28 inches which is really big for southeast Alaska .

Also the skull and the story of old groaner is a real big deal at the Ketchikan museum so you could call them and probably find the whole story. It’s been in that museum since they built it as a Centennial building in 1967.

quote:

Originally posted by anukpuk:
Kevin and his family acquired. Yes bay Lodge about 50 years ago and he’s the one that has the rifle. I don’t know if he still owns the lodge but you can contact him and find out there was a pistol involved three shots to the jaw a friend of mine worked at, the lodge about 20 years ago and I’ve heard the story again from him but they think Southington had a pistol from what people know about Sappington and that’s probably why he was groaning because his jaw was shot away. The skull measured 28 inches which is really big for southeast Alaska .

The fact that some one owns a lodge acquired 40 years after the fact has nothing to do with the story.

The fact that he might own or have owned the rifle that was used by Bruce Johnstone. Has nothing to to do with story. Other then he owns a piece of history.

The fact that a friend heard the same story means he heard the same story.

The fact in the original 1936 story there was never a pistol nor pistol bullets talked about. The ordinal story was done from a interview with Bruce Johnstone shortly after the incident happened.

From page 28 of the 1936 article: Jack shook his head. “Tough old fellow, wasn’t he? Can’t understand how any creature can get his head half shot off and still live.” “And look at his teeth,” exclaimed George. “No wonder he groaned! They’re nearly all decayed. Bet he had a toothache most of the time.” While cutting away the gristle in back of the large, fan-shaped bone that formed a part of the right jaw, they made a startling discovery. There, deeply imbedded in overcrusted bone, were two lead slugs. The slugs from jacketed bullets. After a careful examination, the three woodsmen unanimously agree that the bullets were from a .33 caliber gun.

If they bothered to examine the scull and bullets. Why wouldn't they have mentioned the fact there were more.

quote:

Originally posted by anukpuk:
Also the skull and the story of old groaner is a real big deal at the Ketchikan museum so you could call them and probably find the whole story. It’s been in that museum since they built it as a Centennial building in 1967.

The museum has been very helpful providing many pictures of the scull and other information.

If you had bothered to read the articles you would have seen them with credit to the museum.

Guess you don’t get what I’m telling you the owners of the lodge were friends with the John stones. Everybody in these towns know each other and why it wasn’t in the story it’s in other stories I’ve heard try the one on YouTube. There’s more than one on YouTube that mentions the pistol bullets, and where did they get their story?

Stories are just that.

Stories can or cannot contain facts.

A good story starts with some fact.

The fact is that Bruce Johnstone shot a bear 1935 with a 38-72. That was previously shot by some one else. Most likely with a 33 caliber Winchester rifle.

Other then that there is no evidence of what happened.

Every thing else is just conjecture.

The story changed over time. The 1936 story if a fair amount different then the 1953 story.

Not based on fact but conjecture.

Or just to make a better story.

I have wrote thousands of police reports. I sent people to prison on what was written in those reports.

If I changed those reports I better have good solid evidence proving why I did it.

Just rewriting something does not make it so.

The first statement from a witness is consider far more important or accurate then the a later that changed.

A 3rd party statement brou8ght forth years later is considered even far less accurate.

So what we have here is a story/interview told by with Mr. Johnstone to Mr.
Gabler.

Mr. Gabler then write a story so he can sell it to a magazine. Mr. Gabler adds all kinds of conjecture make it a interesting story.

17 years later Mr. Jackson rewrites the story He and the magazine change many things. Adding new and more importantly leaving information out.

The new story becomes the gold standard of what happed.

Not because new evidence was found. But because new words were written.

You can believe the 1953 story if you want.

Beside the fact that Mr. Johnstone shot a bear in 1935 and that bear was previously shot by some one else.

Most of what was written in the 1953 story in utterly BS.

But it makes a good story

Then how do we know Dean isnt embelishing his credentials or 3 rd hand story fact is Kevin and people at yes bay lodge didnt get rifle from an auction they knew jonstones an know story and pistol was involved whether Dean knows it or not the story is not a myth it is a real bear makes me think Mr Dean trying get noticed or mabey just another writer who didnt get all the facts

quote:

people at yes bay lodge didnt get rifle from an auction

What auction are you referring to.
where exactly did you get that information

It was a real bear shot by Bruce Johnstone.

No one is debating that fact.

A lot of the other details leave a lot to be question.

Ther was no auction as inferred by rest of. Sentence ever story has rifle an pistol bullets in lower jaw 3 38 cal pistol how anybody can miss that is beyond me im going to try to contact the guy writing book on jonstones he was mentored an spent years with them i willtry to find out if handlogger jackson got his story from jonstones firsthand or not

So here’s the story hand logger Jackson was married to Bruce Johnstone’s sister named Ruth. The Johnstone liked to tell a good story so there may have been some embellishments. There was three pistol bullets in the lower jaw 38 caliber assumed be by Jess Sethington So if Dean Weingarten is calling it, BS makes me question him because this is not hard stuff to find out and I had just forgot about the part where hand logger was married to Bruce Johnstone sister

quote:

Sentence ever story has rifle an pistol bullets in lower jaw 3 38 cal pistol how anybody can miss that is beyond me

There are no pistol bullets mention in the 1936 story.

How you can believe there were is beyond me.

The pistol bullets first appeared in the 1953 version.

As I said go read the 1936 story if you can not believe it.

Three pistol bullets are mentioned in the book called blood in the Arctic, Snow, and whoever wrote 1936 story was not married to Ruth everybody in Ketchikan that knows the story we’ll talk about the three pistol bullets, and Jess Sesson was said to have had a 38 caliber pistol with himbesides a rifle blood in the Arctic Snow is another book that has the old Groener story in it. The only person saying that there was not three pistol bullets is Dean Weingarten, so apparently he did not do his homework

The only conclusion one can make is that the 1936 story was less accurate than the one by hand logger Jackson, who is married to Bruce Johnstone sister

Interesting stuff, whos right or wrong makes little difference as we'll never know and most wont really care for that matter..

Just lucky we had some people that like to write the stories down my dad and uncle came to Alaska in 1935. They had some great stories but they didn’t write any books.

A lot of good information has been lost over time.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
A lot of good information has been lost over time.

And a lot more has been invented, proven and more importantly, verified since then.

quote:

And a lot more has been invented, proven and more importantly, verified since then.

Very true.

That even a 9mm wielded properly can be used to defend oneself against a rather large bear.

Ok, well anyway,....
So I bought some Lehigh Defense bullets for my 45acp and my 38spl. I thought their "extreme penetrator" bullets would work well on bears. The couple reviews I've read about the bullets in a 9mm claimed 2 or 3' in penetration with ballistic gel! I thought that was something and just the ticket for my 38 S&W Airlite.

I have a different view than pdog, I can't see a circumstance where I'd be using a pistol for bear defense anything further than about point blank. I can't see how accuracy or heavy recoil will help in that case.

I do have a S&W 44 that hasn't been out of the safe in years and I briefly owned a 454 but decided it was one of the dumber purchases id ever made and got rid of it.

I like the idea of my airlite 38 with the 140g "extreme penetrators" you hardly know it's in your pocket, it doesn't jam , there's more than enough shots in the gun and the bullets supposedly penetrate.

Oh, and because I use my brains I'm really pretty certain I'll never use it.

As has been said, and as I would tend to agree, since I have one, a Glock 20 loaded to go with sixteen rounds of hard and heavy LFNs would be the pistol to pack.

quote:

Oh, and because I use my brains I'm really pretty certain I'll never use it.

One can go a life time never having to shoot a bear is self-defense.

Where have I heard that before.

Then one all of a sudden one. is shooting one with a 9mm.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Oh, and because I use my brains I'm really pretty certain I'll never use it.

One can go a life time never having to shoot a bear is self-defense.

Where have I heard that before.

Then one all of a sudden one. is shooting one with a 9mm.

More bear wisdom from the books read in the wilds of Wisconsin.

19 fatal bear attacks in AK in the last 40 years.

33 fatal bear attacks in the lower 48 in the last 40 years.

Numbers are from Wikipedia black's and brown

Lower 48 bears kill more bears per population the AK bears.

Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2023/...ation/#ixzz8cPZpiUuM
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

The grizzly bear population in the lower 48 states of the United States is the deadliest population of bears in the world. From 1975 to 2023, a population of under 2,000 grizzly bears has killed more people than all the grizzly/brown bears in Alaska.

The Lower 48 also has a denser human population than Alaska. Many of whom, while visiting Glacier and Yellowstone National Parks, also visit the adjacent
National Forests. Their common sense around bears
has been proportionally lacking: as in approaching sow grizzlies with cubs.
Reading __"Bear Attacks and Their Avoidance by Dr.Stephen Herrero" would help some.

In the 1930s, both Marlin and Winchester offerred the 1895 and 1886 respectively in 33 WCF. The 86 in 33 WCF was a popular rifle for hunters. The 1895 Winchester rifle was chambered in 38-72, loaded in black and smokeless powders.

It is highly possible that the alleged missing
prospector/trapper/hunter could have been eaten by this wounded grizzly, who may have been nursing his resentment. Grizzly bears are intelligent and fast on their feet.
A cabin owner near Prescott, AZ. was attacked and killed by a 200 lb black bear last summer. AZ Fish & Game caught up with him later the next day.

quote:

A cabin owner near Prescott, AZ. was attacked and killed by a 200 lb black bear last summer. AZ Fish & Game caught up with him later the next day.

In about a year the facts have been change in the above bear attack. Let alone over decades without information at ones finger tips


It was June 16 when David Montano heard loud banging on his door. Something he calls extremely uncommon in his Prescott neighborhood.

“He said a bear has got Steven, grab your gun,” he said.

His neighbor Steven Jackson, who was building a cabin in the area, was being attacked by a black bear. Officials say the bear dragged Jackson 75 feet down an embankment.

“It took me a minute to find him,” he said.

Montano shot the bear twice, killing it. Sadly, Steven didn’t make it.

“We don’t know why this happened,” Montano said. “He had dreams of living up there the rest of his days.”

Arizona Game and Fish said there was no trash or food left out around Steven’s area that would have attracted the bear to come over so still the big question is why did this bear attack?

“That bear weighed 360 pounds, and it was an adult male,” field supervisor with Arizona Game and Fish Darren Tucker said. “Good body condition, no injuries, no disease, nothing wrong with it.”

Tests came back normal for the animal.

My worry is black and the occasional lower 48 grizzly if I am up in northern WY or MT.


I generally carry one of two guns in the back country although it sometimes varies in black bear country.

S&W 329 PD loaded with 300 gr LBT WFN’s.

Stainless Bisley Blackhawk with 325 gr LBT WFLN.

Both loads are as hot as the gun can handle.

I was doing a light bit of hiking SW of Creede a couple months back and all I had with me was a 66 with some very hot 158 JSP’s and I didn’t feel undergunned.

Honestly I think the biggest worry is 2 legged critters on the trail.