I found this article at chuckhawks.com->handgun page->general handgun information->the dark side of smith & wesson. I had a miserable experience with a S&W 629 in 1986 that "shot itself loose" after less than 1,000 rounds. Any comments about this article?

Cheers.

The worst was around 1980.Fixed many new S&W revolvers that wouldn't work !! A very sad story considering it's an old company and at one time made the best revolvers in the world !! I suppose they are better now but I'm not interested .I have my old M29 that works well ,has taken some deer and many a slihouette match.

I had a 4" and a 6" model 29, both bought brand new, and had mechanical problems with both very early on. Both were very accurate - when they worked.

Since then I've always considered the Model 29s to be one of the more fragile DA .44s on the market. I suspect the Dan Wessons were a lot more robust, and the Ruger Redhawk perhaps even more so. Too bad, really, because the S&Ws sure do handle nicely.

the word is bangor punta - when they owned S&W it was bad bad and worse. I had a guy bring me a mod 28 that the timing was off 50%.

I guess I would have to know what type of rounds he put through it. If it was a 1000 rounds of max heavy bullet hand loads I could very well see it happening.

Smiths are just not as tough as rugers are.

When I fixed them I finally made a check list ,like a pilots !! everything had to be checked They came with 2-3 major problems an many minor ones .

Interesting posts guys. Buy the way, my own S&W 629 shot loose mostly on Hornaday 240 grain hp/xtps or equivalent reloads -- and probably after closer to 500 rounds than 1,000.

Cheers.

That's just the reason that I own Rugers. Sure the trigger might be a little stiff, and the gun a little heavy, but the rugers are rugged and in my experience are built tough! They are the blue collar workhorse guns that most people have. But that is me!
tommy

I just wish Ruger would make a 4 or 6 in. barreled GP-100 style revolver in .44 magnum.

Cheers.

quote:

They are the blue collar workhorse guns that most people have.

That's quite interesting. Who did the poll? They forgot to ask me.

Or maybe it's like one of those political polls where they infer the nation's stance on a subject from only asking 600 people.

WEll, I'm not sure where this thread is going, but if it is going to be a "bash S&W" count me out. I have a 629, 686, model 14, model 17, PC Shorty Forty and love them all! S&W makes beautiful handguns which are accurate and a joy to own.
Peter.

WELL,...it's really not that complicated.

This thread begins by me referencing an article entitled "The Dark Side of Smith & Wesson".

The author prefaces the article by saying that "readers expect, and deserve, the truth -- or at least an informed opinion. So here goes..."

The author then makes the following points:

1. The conduct and product at S&W has far too often failed to meet acceptable standards.

2. S&W has been ripping off other companies' products, especially Colt's for over 150 years, and the leopard hasn't changed his spots.

3. S&W has gotten a pass from the big outdoor media since the 1950's.

I then said was I was unhappy with a S&W 629 I had purchased, why, and asked for other peoples opinions on the article and experiences with S&W.

Others have shared their less than positive experiences with S&W.

If someone likes their S&W purchase(s) fine.

Cheers.

Well good luck then. I hope your thread gets a lot more viewing because there are still some S&W's that I would like to buy used and perhaps some readers will want to unload their "junk" guns at good prices. A junk S&W model 41 would be a good start, after all they have obviously failed to meet product standards and have been given a pass by the media. I am also looking for a junk S&W 460 and a S&W Super Skeet shotgun.
Peter.

Well, good on you! How about a nice low mileage Edsel to haul them around in?

Yeah, I'm kidding you...in all fairness, I've had some good ones too. My Model 41 was good; no better than the Brownings or the Colts I had (I never did have a Ruger .22), but quite good all the same.

Many of the revolvers were good, and I had Model 10s and 66s and a couple of 60s that I liked, although I always felt like they were meant to be carried a lot and shot only a little.

I also had Model 39s and 59s that were sure not good at all. They were accurate all right, but I never had one that wouldn't quite often fail to feed or eject, or have the slide latch open halfways through a magazine full.

I still have a Model 1006 that I like a lot; it's accurate and reliable and that's all I ask.

My Model 29s were not good though, and I have to admit I don't know what years they were made. I do know that the actions would lock up tighter than a bulls behind every now and again, and they wouldn't stop doing it no matter what I tried. That's a real bad thing if you're depending on a gun to save your skin, so I sold them.

I reckon they're like most stuff; some good and some bad. But a lot of them were sure not the toughest guns out there, and that's a fact.

Tumbleweed, you are, of course, correct. The 1006 seems to have become the standard by which all 10mms are judged. I admit that I have perhaps babied my 629. With all my guns I have developed loads for accuracy rather than "max". Having said that I have developed very accurate loads using 300gr. cast bullets and lots of H110 for both my Ruger and my 629. Do I shoot 50 rounds every weekend, NO! These loads are good for 2 or 3 cylinders but cease to be fun after that. Still I have the gun sighted in for 75 yards, take it out periodically to verify zero and then put it away, knowing that it is ready to go. My 629 has a scope and is very accurate. Would it shoot loose after 1000 rounds of the heavy stuff? Probably, but I suspect that more damage is done by stiff loads of inappropriate powders rather than stiff loads of powders meant to develop high velocities with heavy bullets without generating the kind of pressures that other powders do. So, just because I am shooting 240 gr. bullets does not mean I am not generating abnormally high pressures. I have not had the problems with "locking up" that you mention. Having said all that, the 629 is one of the best looking guns on the market, second only to perhaps the Freedom Arms. I had a Dan Wesson 6" in vent rib, haevy barrel configuration. It was a brute. Just didn't handle well at all. Felt like a 460 or 500!
Peter.

Chuck Hawks starts off by saying that he's not biased, and has no axe to gring with S&W, then does a one sided hack job that makes a James Carville review of GWB's presidency look tame.

S&W has certainly had QC issues at times, notably the late 70's, but no worse than any gun manufacturer, and arguably better than most. Any manufacturer makes a lemon occasionally.

It appears that Hawks didn't get the freebie he wanted, so he decides to spew internet diarrhea in S&W's direction. I've owned a number of Smith's, and had a few problems, but nothing of the magnitude Hawks' suggests.

It sounds like BS to me.

John

To say that Chuck Hawks wrote the article because he didn't get the "freebie" he wanted from S&W is what sounds like BS to me.

Cheers.

just say Colt Anaconda...my 4" in 45LC is T-H-E perfect packing big gun...300gr hardcast at 1100fps.

Rich
DRSS

Own 7 S&W revolvers both for competition and daily carry. Had problems with two .357's that needed a gun smiths TLC to make work reliably - a late 70's vintage 66 and the other a early 686. the two 5 shot snubbies, old M58, and 329 and 629 classic work as advertised.

Had a 610 that came factory fresh with a bent crane, but after some work the new owner is happy with it.

The .329 and the two snubbies (and old airweight 38 spl and a 3".357) are the only new firearms that I have owned that didn't need some work to make them perfect. Including a new STI 40, A para P16, A CZ 75, three F.N. high powers, several colts and a selection of rifles from CZ, Winchester Thompson Centre etc.

I've owned lots of S&W wheelies. All function just fine. Current crop is Mod. 60 snub, J frame .357 mag; Mod. 10, 4" bbl 38 Spc. ported, tuned for IPSC; Mod. 629, 4" bbl. 44 mag.

Owned a 66 and 686, all just fine.

I got my share of Rugers too, just for the record.

quote:

Originally posted by jt1:
Chuck Hawks starts off by saying that he's not biased, and has no axe to gring with S&W, then does a one sided hack job that makes a James Carville review of GWB's presidency look tame.

S&W has certainly had QC issues at times, notably the late 70's, but no worse than any gun manufacturer, and arguably better than most. Any manufacturer makes a lemon occasionally.

It appears that Hawks didn't get the freebie he wanted, so he decides to spew internet diarrhea in S&W's direction. I've owned a number of Smith's, and had a few problems, but nothing of the magnitude Hawks' suggests.

It sounds like BS to me.

John

He is in bed with randy fakeman and the stuff that they spew is total garbage meant to "sly the hand" of the actual truth in order to SELL YOU SOMETHING!

Having repaired many S&W guns I can say [~ 1980 ] that it was not occasional lemon and it was much worse than other makers !! Remember that they went through a number of owners including the Brits who couldn't care less about handguns ! They also had problems with unions [affirmative action etc]There were police departments that returned shipments of S&Ws and bought from someone else.I have no axe to grind or profit to make but I've 'been there and done that ' !!

Current S&W Safety Recall Notices:

S&W Performance Center Model 460 - "failure of the barrel"

S&W1911 - "firing pin safety plunger"

S&W Performance Center Model 329 - "frame damage"

Cheers

SW Model 57 circ. 1960.

Chuck Hawks is a master of theory and regurgitation. He's often right, but I find it very hard to take him seriously.


Okie John

I suspect most of us, myself included, are masters of theory and regurgitation. I tend to take seriously those who are often right.

Cheers

In 1982 my gun store sold a lot of Smiths...and had a lot of irate customers. One in particular bought a brand new M-13, fired it one cylinder-fullof factory ammo he bought from me with the gun, and it froze up on him. Naturally I had to replace it, which didn't make ME too happy either. My pinned and rebated M-29s weren't a problem except that they hammered the bejazus out of my middle finger knuckle.

Having said that, I had even more problems with the Rugers of the day. I got back MANY of the single actions we sold...a few shots and the ejector housings would fall right off the barrels. My first Redhawk (which was my own) would freeze with the hammer half way down, and there was NO way you could get it open short of disassembling the entire lockwork. Sent it back to Ruger and they couldn't fix it either. My first .357 Maximum had the cylinder so out of radial/axial alignment that it would jam against the barrel at about 1 o'clock.

Still own some 12 or so Smiths AND some dozen+ Rugers now, though, all of which are fine handguns. I suspect it is a lot like Ford & Chevy...pay work-a-day prices, and you get work-a-day products- most are dependable, some aren't. If you want stuff that performs like Rolls-Royce or Freedom Arms' products, you have to pay those prices, either to the manufacturers or to the aftermarket 'smiths.

BTW, back when we carried revlovers in law enforcement, I felt it paid to carry a Colt, even though they didn't have as nice a trigger-pull or the barrel under-lug. So I did. And when everyone else went to the 9x19 wonder-guns, I packed a Colt 1911 .38 Super Gold Cup.

But, then I drove a CHP-spec Chyrsler hemi, too, so guess my drum does beat a little more out of step than some sane people's.

I have owned a few Smith and Wesson revolvers, and only had any real problems with one...an N Frame Model 28 from the early 1980's. The cylinder froze up/wouldn't turn smoothly, so I went to S&W (about 1992 or so). Had to send it to a Tennessee service center, and they replaced the barrel, charged me for it and then returned it. It was never really straight again.

At least when my Ruger single-actions self-disassembled (ejector housing fell off) the factory fixed them without charge or hassle.