Seems to be 2 camps of experts, light or heavy. I guess a really light camp that recomends the 38+P too. What is your opinon and why? Anyone think the 125 gr hollow point is not the top choice?

In a handgun load, trajectory is not at issue, nor is loss of velocity. Accuracy is not really much of an issue in "defense" loads.

What you want is "stopping power." In .357" dia. bullets, that would be a JHP, and as heavy as you can run -- 158 gr.

You want the mass and the momentum, that ensures the bullet keeps moving in the target and keeps expanding, dissipating energy.

Anything lighter and you may as well go for a 9mm semi-auto, and then since you're there, get a high cap mag and hope you don't need to shoot through a lot of heavy clothing or a windshield.

MMS: when it comes to actual recorded shootings, the .357 set the standard all others are judged by and the most effective weight is the 125 gr. JHP. Rem. and Win. 125 gr. JHPs @ 1450 FPS from a 4" revolver hold the record for OSSs at 96%. Most 158 gr. factory loads are on the slow side compared to the potential they can be loaded to and once were. They will penetrate, but what you want from a defense bullet is expansion combined with penetration. This causes the temporary stretch cavity in wound ballistics. The 125 gr. JHP penetrates with expansion. The Texas DPS was a big proponent of that weight because they had no problems with windshield penetration when they carried S&W revolvers. Now you have ammomakers designing new methods to do it in other calibers with heavier bullets. Most recently, bonded 230 gr. JHPs in .45 ACP. When the DPS standardized on one pistol in one caliber, they chose the .357 SIG because it best replicated the performance of the 125 gr. JHP .357 Magnum loads they used previously. Sherriff Jim Wilson, who writes for "Shooting Times" also advocates 140 gr. JHPs and since he has actual experience in his long and distinguished career, I find his advice pretty savvy. Generally, the 140 gr. loads might be a better option with shorter barrels where velocity may suffer a bit. One of his favorite carry guns was a 3" S&W Model 66. what I've read into this is 4" barrel or longer: 125 gr. JHP, 3" or shorter: 140 gr. JHP.

You'll be hard pressed to find anyone using 158grJHP in the .357mag, just too much penetration, hunting yes, SD no. Most will go 125grJHP. There is really no comparison to a 9mm, even w/ +p+ loads. Many are moving to an intermediate round like the 145grWWSTHP or Speer 135gr GDHP, both good loads for 2.5"-4" guns. Don't overlook the good old reliable 158grLSWCHP in 38sp.+p, especially for snubbies. They expand/deform & penetrate quite well even at low vel. Recoil & blast are both mild. It's a good load in a 2".

125 gr jhp for two legged varmints. They just are the best out there.

If I were going to carry if for larger 4 legged varmints I would go with a heavy for caliber hard cast semi wadcutter.

Yeah, talking 2 legged varmints here.

As an aside I've finished off 4 deer so far this year with my new S&W model 66 4 inch. I'm using handloaded (book max) 180 XTP's and am pretty happy. Mild shooting but 3 went all the way through broadside, the 4th hit some bone and was under the far side hide more or less in one piece. They group OK and are relatively cheap. I don't know if I would use it for a primary deer gun, but it's handy.

I'm basically looking for opinons after season when it becomes a nightstand gun. I'm never going to have 4 "perps" to check the PD loads out on personally. Thanks for the replys.

i prefer the pmc starfire 150 grain load; the recoil and muzzel flash with a 3" barrel is more user friendly in my case.

158 gr. JHP -- That's what the local LEO's use if they're carrying the revolver instead of the (ick) Glock 22.

But then we're talking about shooting through truck doors, windshields, etc.

"And the side arm is only for covering my ass until I can get to the long-gun in the squad car."

-- Actual quote, Oregon State Police.